You must Sign In to post a response.
  • Category: Reward Programs

    Should Delhi be an independent State? Will Dexit follow Brexit? - Active GD

    Following Brexit, AAP leader and Delhi Chief Minister Mr Arvind Kejriwal has mooted the idea of a referendum to seek independent status to Delhi as a State. Keeping all issues in mind, do you think Delhi should be a totally independent state? If so, why and if not, why? I request members to carefully study and analyse the topic and come up with valid points to substantiate their arguments.

    Please avoid repeating the same grounds to support your view point. Do make it a point not to attack any leader personally though political and social issues may need to be discussed in between. Let us have a healthy, active and fruitful discussion. Remember that the core issue of discussion is independent status to Delhi as a State.

    All posting guidelines are applicable. The GD will be closed on 11th of July as per ISC server timing.
  • #570337
    To start with, I would say that Delhi should not be an independent state. It should be a city under the care of Central Government. To be continued..............
    No life without Sun ¤

  • #570338
    What I personally feel that when Delhi was Union Territory then and now accorded statehood, all the rights enjoyed by the state must be bestowed with it. Without any executive powers, the elections seems to be farce and the CM at the helm of affairs without any powers seems to be dummy. The way all the orders passed by the Kejriwal government has been cancelled by the Union government by virtue of its powers clearly shows that this is not democracy but autocracy. Already Delhi citizens are vexed with stereo type politics and governments and they wanted a change through AAP and that is not being allowed and carried on. So this continues, Delhi may part with rest of India.
    K Mohan
    I consider myself as the learner everyday

  • #570351
    Delhi is having huge population, it should be declared as a fully State, then only Elected government of Delhi can work better way to improve the state , economy, safety etc.
    Because in current situation centre is interfering in every matter of Delhi, also not allowing all suggestion and demands from the state Government.
    Who ever is the Chief minister of Delhi, if the same party is not ruling at centre then there will be huge crash between these two Government.
    So Delhi should be declared as Independent state .

  • #570353
    #570351 There need not be tiff between Center and state. If people have voted a popular government in state means that must be respected and center should not behave like authoritarian. When other states are functioning, why Delhi is being single targeted.
    K Mohan
    I consider myself as the learner everyday

  • #570373
    India is a federal setup that means the country India comprises of several states in that Delhi is one of it, but Delhi is the capital city of the country and therefore it should not belong to any particular region people because if we give full state status to Delhi there exists some local reservations in government Jobs and other sectors, so many issues will arise that is not good for the country. Keeping in view of the country integrity and moreover the capital city is vulnerable for terrorist activities so for giving tight security of the capital city it should be under the scanner of central government of India.Delhi should not get Independent state status as it should be continue the present situation.
    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570374
    Delhi is more like a big city, instead of being a state. Compared to most other states of the country, Delhi has a very small area. Moreover Delhi is mostly urban, without any rural areas or hardly any villages. The culture of Delhi is more like a city, not like a state. The population is also cosmopolitan. People from all over the country has made it their home. Most of the people have come from outside its border. The natives are too few. Its not like the other states where the majority of population belong to certain ethnicity or language. Delhi doesn't have a culture of its own, like the other states, its neighbours. So it doesn't deem fit that Delhi should continue to be a state, let alone a independent state. So I don't agree with those who are demanding Delhi to be an independent state.
    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #570375
    Let us first try to unterstand the basics.
    Delhi is presently an Union Territory with a special status.
    Union territories are ruled directly by the Union Government.
    However out of total 7 Union Territories in India, 2 i.e. Delhi and Puducherry operate somewhat differently from the other five in the sense that they have been given partial statehood with their own elected legislative assemblies and the executive councils of ministers with partially state like function.
    Vide Constitution (Seventy-fourth Amendment) Bill, 1991, the following major provisions have been made regarding Delhi -
    1. Name of Delhi has been changed to National Capital territory of Delhi and cities of neighboring states like Harayana and Uttar Pradesh have also been added in the NCR.
    2. Provision for legislative assembly has been made.
    3. Provisions of public order, police and land (which are under the jurisdiction of the states in India) have been precluded from the jurisdiction of the Delhi government.
    The bone of contention is the powers related to 'public order, police and land'
    The demand of full statehood is primarily being made to get powers related to 'public order, police and land' also.
    However it is not possible to confer such powers to the Delhi Legislative Assembly because of following reasons -
    1. Physical security of the Constitutional Authorities, Government functionaties, foreign dignatories and institutions like the Parliament etc. requires coordination with the intelligence and security agencies, international cooperation and support etc. which cannot be achieved effectively at the state level.
    2. Development of Delhi as a world class city, the capital of one of emerging powers of the world requires vision of world class way ahead of the local politics, which cannot be achieved by a state Government.
    Thus the demand for full statehood of Delhi is an illconceived proposition and should not be acceded to at any cost.
    Regarding Dexit, it is just a word game. Del'in' has always happened and will continue to be so. Delhi has become perhaps the third largest conurbation in the world after Tokyo and Mumbai.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #570377
    Delhi is like a city state and to run a new city of his own,Kejriwal will have to devise and revise his old strategies of governance with his free water,electricity for the aam admi.
    A city-state is a sovereign state that consists of a city and its dependent territories and only Singapore is a modern example of a fully functional city state in today's time.Bifurcation is one possibility and developing a new city with a parallel and separate policy system,jurusdiction,etc with a corporate mindset is the need of the hour.Kejriwal needs to incorporate and absorb technical,talented and skilled workers in all domains to make it the autonomous capital with all its glory.
    It will be a difficult job for him given the limited skilled manpower available in India and he will have to raise more funds for hiring such from India's neighbours.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570379
    Unlike its counterparts in states, the Delhi assembly is barred by Article 239AA(3)(a) of the Constitution from making laws on three of the 66 state list entries. The three subjects that do not apply to the Delhi assembly — and therefore the Delhi government — are Entries 1, 2 and 18 dealing with public order, police and land.
    Hence,the police cannot be controlled directly,its only the police officials who can be approached.With division of power at these above levels which are the most essential for a state to function,it will be difficult to develop a new state completely with only partial authority.Autonomy is required completely for effective governance and sadly the articles in the Constitution become a hurdle in the process.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570385
    @ Dhruv , Independent state does not have the criteria of whether the citizen are origin from there or immigrant.As Delhi has huge population also they have villages like Bawana ( where the industrial estate is situated). Too much offices, industries, agriculture farm are there, so people need better roads, communication, water,sewerage and other necessary service, from the municipal development,medical development etc.
    SO Delhi should announce as independent state.
    And all central Government office should be in one part of Delhi where state Government will not interfere as no central Government office or employee like to be under control of state Government.

  • #570394
    #570353,There is a tiff and constant tug of war between the Central government and state government in Delhi and we can see from the data provided below:
    Now Delhi has various bodies some elected, some controlled by state and some under central government' control. It is the main reason for various pulls and pressures in daily functioning of Delhi.
    Here are a few examples of division if power on three sides on the municipal corporation level itself.
    Firstly,MCD (Municipal Corporation of Delhi) is an elected body with a mayor as its head.
    NDMC (New Delhi Municipal Council) is governed by a council with a chairman appointed by the central government and includes the chief minister of Delhi.
    NCT (National Capital Territory) is headed by the lieutenant governor who also happens to be the chairman of the Delhi Development Authority (DDA).
    To add further Delhi Police falls under Union Home Ministry.Hence,there is always a law and order problem somewhere or the other in Delhi today.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570407
    @Bhushan Sir,Delhi has become a vulnerable target for terrorist activities due to the presence of the offices,houses of the major politicians of parties,the prime minister and many more VIP personalities.It would also be a good idea to shift the capital to somewhere in central India,fir example in Madhya Pradesh and let Delhi thrive as a normal state.This would solve the problem of division of power at the state level and make the state government authority and local bodies answerable to the people of Delhi.There is chaos at the governance level and no proper channel to control the police.Hence,we hear of so many untoward incidents happening in the city and making it one of the most unsafe places for women especially.
    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570411
    Friends,
    On looking at the input given by Mr.Kailash and 'ar', we can understand the reasons for the limited powers given to the Delhi government and its limitation to get a full statehood. I differ with the views offered by Swagatika and Mr.Mohan as the capital region can not be treated as an equal to other states being its proximity to the urbanization and its vulnerability to serious security lapses. Law and Order is a state subject in general as it comes to states which have their own police forces under their control and the case of Delhi can't be dealt like that.

    We have Shiela Dixit for three terms as its Chief Minister and there never appeared to be a problem with Unuion government during her tenure. One may say that she could survive because of the UPA regime for a decade but her initial tenure was held during NDA governance. The real problem is between two individuals whose function is no lesser to autocratic style with full of egoism. It should not lead to constitutional crisis. The Chief Minister of Delhi should understand his administrative parameters and should be confined to that while the Central Government should render its fullest cooperation for the development of Delhi. it should not use the role of Lt.Governor as 'Shalya' in Mahabharat. Though Law and order comes under Union Government as far as Delhi is concerned, it is being misused to check the Delhi Government from its act of independence and no Government can function without any control over the state police. It is a must to redesign the role of Delhi police and they should be brought under the perview of the state Government as the Home Ministry has always its own machinery like BSF, IB, CRPF etc to check the national security and other factors in the NCR.

    It is not the 'Panch saal Kejriwaal" slogan that brought him to power with a massive mandate and the slogan 'Dexit' is really detrimental to our Federal structure and Aravind Kejriwal should limit his role as Chief minister of Delhi and not as Prime Minister.

    Regards,
    Jagdish

  • #570413
    It is clearly provided under the 69th Amendment Act of 1991 that -
    1. The CM will be appointed by the President of India and the President will appoint other ministers on advice of CM.
    2. The laws enacted by state legislature will be void in case the same are in contradiction with law enacted by the Parliament.
    3. In case there is a conflict between the Council of Ministers and the LG then the LG can refer the matter to the President of India.
    4. The Parliament can make law on the subject in state list also.
    The elected Government of Delhi got overwhelming majority on the strength of promising full statehood to Delhi. The voters are now eyeing a piece of the pie in the form of allotment of a plot or apartment or regularization of their illegal constructions/settlements. That is possible only when the Delhi receives full statehood and the powers related to land also come within the purview of the state Government.
    The larger interest of the nation cannot be sacrified for appeasing voters who elected an incalcitrant Government by according full statehood to Delhi.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #570416
    @ Jagdish Patro, although we should not divert from the main topic, still as you started I am adding some points, we all know that during Sheila Dixit all big scam happened, like Delhi Jal Board, the commonwealth game, and it is known to all ( whole political system is corrupt and they work together for cheating the common man and they compromise behind the camera for every thing, that was the reason for which she had no clash with NDA Government, and about Ego matter of Arvind Kejriwal. This is the Ego of both side ( from state and center), we all have seen unnecessary disturbance and controlling the power by Narendra Modi, they do not respect the voter as they denied them from the city, even they did not able to get 10% of whole state.
    Now come to the point, until unless it has been declared a fully state Delhi chief minister can not work with full power, as all administration is under Central Government.
    Current chief minister taken the initiative this should be taken by previous chief minister as they did not initiate as they were happy with filling their own pocket not thinking about the people of Delhi.

  • #570418
    To catch the eye of their protests to people of the Nation (or) throughout the world as protesters chooses Delhi to stage Dharnas in Jantar Mantar and other areas If Delhi gets independent state status so local police officers more concentrated or pivotal force of police protection is needed to control or monitor the protesters so that they see that no anti socialistic people and elements should involved in darkness. So even the investigate agency alarm the state police there is a threat for a terrorist activity the police may not be monitored properly and hence the terrorists are more successful in doing their operation so continuous monitor of central protection force is needed to guard Delhi from terrorist activities so it is only possible when the Delhi continue the present situation and should not given independent status of the state.
    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570421
    @ Swagatika:
    There is no deviation from my side from the core point and it is to be dealt taking all the factors into consideration. Here comes the role of the past and present Chief Ministers and there is nothing wrong to take the example of individuals when their contribution is significant or even their failure to project a point during their tenure in the best interest of the state. You have misread the sequel of incidents that occurred during the Shiela Dixit regime and the Commonwealth games were held during UPA governance. In spite of corruption charges leveled against the previous government, they were successfully held under the state Government leadership. Do you mean to say that corruption would be eradicated, if the state government was given independent status? Corruption was the main reason that led the Sheila Dixit to exit from the election battle and the miserable failure of the Congress in the Delhi polls and the national elections as a whole.

    Delhi being the nation's capital should be under the Union Government's control and the present powers vested with the State Government should be enhanced to meet the requirements of the Delhi development. The present Government at Delhi should have a realistic approach and come out of the dream world that Delhi is a Mini India and its CM is the Prime Minister of Delhi. Elections and the fight to win are different and should be kept aside after the battle is over and they should think on realistic lines to work for the Nation. It is applicable to both AAP and BJP and their leader too.

    Regards,
    Jagdish

  • #570422
    @ #570418 Central Government can send its special force, commando, to any state, After getting full State power does not mean Center will not interfere in the security reason. If there is any terror attack then both police and special force will work at tehir own investigation, but as the police is not in control of State Government of Delhi, how can they order for proper investigation, and due to the pressure from Center there might be chance of mis utilizing the Delhi police.

  • #570423
    @ ar Madam,

    People have different views in regards of capital city of India some South Indian people feel that Delhi is far away to their liking so there should need for another capital to the country and for that the correct place is Hyderabad. Moreover, it is a hard truth that capital city comprises of all government institutions and government administration will run from there. So if you shift the capital city of Madhya Pradesh or any other area the result would be the same.

    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570424
    @570422 Whenever the state asks for a special protection force then only the center provide hence if Delhi gets an Independent state and if central government and state government are two different strong political opponents like the present situation, then the coordination get weaken and hence there is a high probability of these terrorist activity, take place and after that we see a blame game from the state and the center so what I feel continuous monitor should be there in the important place like the capital city of country it will happen only when it is under the scanner of central government.
    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570436
    As a Delhiite, I want to take part in this discussion with some facts, which, I feel, is necessary to understand the reasons for this particular debate. Delhi is sub-divided in the following manner for the purpose of local administration:-
    (a) NDMC area
    (b) MCD area
    (c) Cantonment area (Yes, Delhi has a very large cantonment area governed by Cantonment Board)
    (d) Villages (where virtually no local administration is available/exists. This areas are waiting to come uner MCD)
    The administration of these areas are vastly different.

    Considering the fact that Delhi is also the seat of the Union Government and the union legislature, normal statehood cannot be granted to this city-state. The political leaders, irrespective of party affiliations (except Aam Aadmi Party) could understand the difficulty in granting full statehood to Delhi. However, the political parties could not ignore the rapidly expanding population of the city and the aspirations of the people. To maintain a balancing act between the administrative difficulty in granting full statehood to Delhi and the aspirations of people, Delhi was granted partial statehood by the 74th Amendment of the Constitution in 1991. By the Amendment, Delhi has got an Assembly, a State Government, but three subjects, viz,. public order, police and land have been kept beyond the purview of the Delhi Govt. This step has been necessary in view of administrative complications and I fully support the provisions contained in the 74th Amendment. This means I am against granting full statehood to Delhi.

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570441
    @Bhushan Sir,the suggestion I had given for shifting the capital city to central India was just an example.It could be anywhere as you have suggested.But,the necessary thing is that Delhi's future and governance should be offloaded to prevent and also cure the current problems in administration,jusicial powers due to division of power.Every state will want India's capital to be in its territory but the new city to be chosen should be capable of adjusting to the drills of becoming he centre of all political parties,their ministers and the target of the nation in all respects.Foreign relations and more future requirements need to be kept in mind when shifting is necessary.
    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570442
    To Bhushan and others who are discussing the merits of shifting the capital city to some other states, let me point out that the theme of this GD is about suitability or unsuitability of Delhi as an independent state. Whether Delhi is suitable as a capital or not, is not in the purview of this discussion. Moreover, I cant see the link between terrorism and statehood that some of you are stressing upon. That, by being an independent state Delhi will become prone to the action of terrorists is too far-fetched a supposition.

    However, the demand by the present government in Delhi for full statehood doesn't seems appropriate at all. Delhi is the seat of power for the whole country. You can't limit the city to people of one state alone. It belongs to people from every state. In other countries too, the capital city remains in complete control of the national government. Nowhere is it a separate state. So why should it be so in our country. Its just because of the whims of certain politicians and there hunger for power that there is a demand for statehood for Delhi. How does the common man gets benefited whether Delhi is a state or city? Making it a state only benefits the politicians and is a burden for the common man and the taxpayers.

    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #570443
    Dhruv,

    As I know the discussion is whether the Delhi should give a complete state status or not but I am just clearing the doubt of Ar which is raised in #570407

    Coming to the point we have to see the security concerns and it is the most important aspect for example, if a region (which is prone to naxal's) is attaining statehood , then the central government have to think twice for granting a statehood to the region because naxal's can elaborate their wings easily in small states. Similar to Delhi as it is more vulnerable to terrorist activities, it should also a cause of concern for granting a complete state status.

    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570448
    @Bhushan Sir,the suggestion I had given for shifting the capital city to central India was just an example.It could be anywhere as you have suggested.But,the necessary thing is that Delhi's future and governance should be offloaded to prevent and also cure the current problems in administration,jusicial powers due to division of power.Every state will want India's capital to be in its territory but the new city to be chosen should be capable of adjusting to the drills of becoming he centre of all political parties,their ministers and the target of the nation in all respects.Foreign relations and more future requirements need to be kept in mind when shifting is necessary.
    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570449
    @ar Madam,

    I understand your views but the discussion is not about shifting the capital the discussion is to whether Delhi should grant a complete state status or not?

    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570464
    Advantages of granting a special state status to Delhi.

    1)The Local people and state politicians get profited by this move


    Disadvantages of granting special state status
    1)Local reservation in Jobs will come in to picture
    2)Security issue
    3)Mar or damage of cosmopolitan culture.

    Delhi belongs to all because it is capital region so I am against of giving state status to Delhi

    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570465
    Historically, demands for creation or carving out of new states has always arisen due to the aspiration of local leaders to rise to the level of a Chief Minister and enjoy the powers and previlages associated with the same. Such local leaders go to any extent for creation of new states. They don't prefer to serve the country by moving out of their own home turf and join the national level politics.
    In case of Delhi, this aspiration of local leaders has already been fulfilled through the 69th Amendment Act of 1991, despite the fact that local leaders were not even required to move out of their home turf for serving the nation as Dehli is the national capital also.
    Demand from local leaders of Delhi to confer statehood existed since very long . In the year 1987 itself a committee was appointed by the central Goverment to examine the issue and offer recommendation. After much deliberation and based on the recommendations of the said committee, the 69th Amendment Act of 1991 was passed by the Parliament.
    Thus the present status of Delhi with its partial state like administrative set up is well considered one and not a half baked decision.
    Perhaps there is no room for acceding to the further demands of full statehood to Delhi for fulfilling whims and fancies of the local leaders who out of their greed to grab powers related to the public order, police and land, are raising such illogical and irrelevant demands.
    Such demands need not be taken seriously. Since it was mentioned in the manifesto of Aap party, they are forced to keep the issue alive.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #570474
    Division of Delhi and an independent status will make it a very different Delhi.If it is divided,thrre will be one part of Delhi(union territory) from where the central government operates autonomously and another Delhi which will be like a state which has to start all over again to come to terms with the problems arising due to shortages of water,electricity,police forces,subsidies,land and bureaucracy.
    It will have to bear the brunt as it will be a situation where it will have to buy almost all these resources from the neighbouring states and also require more funds resulting in even more pressure on the common man indirectly.Thus,for the sake of the aam admi,Kejriwal should not press for his independent state if he really wants his party motive of aam admi to thrive.It was this concept which had made him stand out and he will have to stand by his original form of governance.
    The other way would force him to become a kind of political leader cum CEO who will have to devise modern strategies and excellent governance to autonomously handle the bleak situation in his new bifurcated Delhi,which will have to develop from start.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570475
    By acquiring full statehood, Delhi's Chief Minister who can administer law and order with police under his control and can make decisions on appointment and transfers of bureaucracy. Separate law enforcement agencies can be created to provide services in places where the Union government operates.
    A true 'Swaraj' will only prevail in Delhi when power is vested in the elected representatives.These are the advantages of bifurcation for the Chief minister if he is a really capable person who really wants to do good for the general public and not make tall claims with political motives.I am supporting the case which will result in more amenities,less trouble for the public and more power to the Chief minister if he really means good for his people.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570478
    Continuing my argument (#570436) I would further like to state that grant of statehood to Delhi is being discussed by the experts in various fields. According to former Delhi Chief Secretary Mr. Omesh Sehgal, grant of full statehood to Delhi would not be administratively prudent. He has specifically stated that due to the presence of large number of diplomatic corps and the members of the highest judiciary in Delhi, the Delhi Police should always remain with the Union Government. this is also prudent from the point of view of protocol and security also. According to Mr. Sehgal Delhi has gained immensely due to the control of the Centre. The city gets a huge chunk of revenue from the Central Government which other states can't even imagine. For instance, the annual budget of Delhi Police is more than Rs. 5000 crores and the entire amount is being provided by the Central Government. This huge budget for police is unthinkable for any other State. He has also dismissed the view that the Police would function better under the control of the State Government.

    Mr. Subhash Kashyap, renowned Constitutional expert and former Secretary-General of Lok Sabha, has opined that it is not constitutionally viable to grant full statehood to Delhi because the seat of the Central Government is located in Delhi. According to him, it would be against national interest. Another renowned constitutional expert, Mr. Harish Salve, has also seconded the views expressed by Mr. Kashyap.

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570488
    It should be noticed that Delhi has been accorded the partial statehood in tune with what has been observed elsewhere in the world. Most of the capital cities worldwide have been treated as Capital Territories ( or the Federal Territories) rather than being given the status of States. It has been inevitable for the obvious reasons of security to the national interests.

    Asking for a complete statehood with every right as a normal state would get is uncalled for in such situation. With the fact that all key affairs related to running the Indian government are run from Delhi, it becomes a critical area. Having two teams ( err... two governments) fight it out in the open will only jeopardise the national interest. The whole area should come under the Ministry of Home Affairs so that adequate security is provided.
    One should note that the capital city and the surrounding areas need to have a nationalistic feel. Statehood will give rise to regionalism and it is bound to bring the "outsider - insider" divide. It could prove to be detrimental to the feeling of a capital city.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570517
    The population of Delhi was only 4 lakh in the year 2001 which has risen to estimated 186 lakh in the year 2016. The same is estimated to rise to about 286 lakh by the year 2025.
    Bulk of the population of Delhi is migratory i.e. composed of people who are not born in Delhi, but have instead settled permanently in the capital of India due to various reasons. Better opportunities and standard of living offered by the capital has lured people from all over India to settle here.
    A major chunk of such people don't have their own land or houses/shops etc. There are many illegal settlement areas in the NCR region.
    The Aap party milked their sentiments and aspirations to own property and converted the same into votes for its selfish gains by promising full statehood in its manifesto.
    According full statehood to Delhi and consequently power related to land also, will result in distortion of the global shape and infrastructure of the national capital of India.
    The national interests cannot be put to ransom for facilitating selfish interests of the local leaders having myopic vision.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #570528
    Exactly. The AAP government in Delhi has been trying to play with people's emotions and is trying to play the game of one-upmanship with the central government. Mr. Kejriwal knows for sure that it is not possible to provide full autonomy to Delhi.

    The idea mooted by some of the members above about shifting the capital will not solve the issue. It will ease the problems of Delhi administration , but create another Delhi like situation elsewhere. It will not solve the issue. Only option is to leave it just the way as it is right now.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570541
    From my previous responses (#570436 and #570478), it is now clear that I am firmly against grant of statehood to Delhi. Now, I am systematically indicating the reasons why Delhi should NOT be granted full statehood:-

    1. First and foremost, Delhi is India's capital. All the Central Government's administrative powers are exercised from Delhi. Moreover, the Apex Court of the country is located in Delhi. So, Delhi can't be granted full statehood.

    2. Delhi hosts around 50 officials and head of states per month from other countries. So it is absolutely important that Delhi Police comes under the jurisdiction of the Central Government. Can we imagine a state government handling security of the US President or other heads of states? Protocol-wise also, this is not correct and no country would accept it.

    3. There will be better accountability if the police report to the Ministry of Home Affairs, than to a state government.

    4. Delhi is not very big in size . It doesn't have any alternate source of revenue. Statehood means limiting Central Government funds to Delhi. In case of full statehood, state government of Delhi will always look for additional revenue. It means people will be taxed more, just like the recent VAT hike. However, due to its size, Delhi Govt. will not be able to increase the revenue substantially, causing deterioration of every civic amenity.

    5. Unlike Goa (a successful case of transition from UT to state), Delhi has no major tourist attraction to generate steady revenue. With the increasing populist measures being taken by the Government of Delhi, Delhi as a state will soon run into deficit. Even if Delhi is granted statehood despite all these constraints and lacunae, it will take at least 10 years to somewhat stabilise the financial position of the new state. Although the present Government of Delhi is always eager to take populist but financially imprudent measures, it has not taken any measure for creation of jobs, nor it has any plan to do so. Without creation of jobs or employment opportunities, state of Delhi (if created) will always remain a 'crippled child'.

    Do the parents willingly want a crippled child?

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570560
    If Delhi is given full statehood, it would immediately stand to lose all the central funding it has been receiving. How can one expect it to flourish as a state independently? For a sustained development and growth, it needs to have a proper infrastructure in place. Does Delhi have it?

    Maybe New Delhi can boast of huge resources, but in case Delhi is given the statehood, New Delhi would definitely stay out of it. That is because being a national capital, it is bound to have its own security system in place. In such a scenario. what will Delhi as a state would depend upon? Unlike Goa which had tourism and mining to its credit could successfully transform into an independent and self sustaining state, Delhi does not have any such resource to generate a regular revenue.

    Instead of looking at it from the emotional point of view, one should open his eyes to the reality of the situation. Political parties have their own agenda when making those demands. But if it happens in actuality, it will do more harm to Delhiites than being beneficial.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570621
    Coming to the latest news of the day,independent statehood seems to be a long journey for Delhi.
    In a set-back to Delhi Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal, the Supreme Court on Friday declined to interfere with the Delhi High Court reserving its order on the dispute between the central and state governments on the administration of the national capital.
    The news was that it was the Delhi government which had approached the High Court on its tussle with the Centre, a bench of Justice Dipak Misra and Justice Uday Umesh Lalit said that that the High Court must be respected and left to decide the matter.
    From the above scenario,it looks as if the centre is not really willing to adhere to the statehood demands and the Supreme court is not getting involved as the bench has stated that the proceedings of the High court cannot be interfered with except under exceptional circumstances.

    Regards,
    ar
    "If things go wrong, don’t go with them"

  • #570623
    The proponents of full statehood to Delhi are not realising the ground realities when they make the demand. Delhi in the current scenario receives the highest grant from centre by virtue of being a capital city.
    Most of the infrastructure development in Delhi is funded by centre. If Delhi is made a full state, it will be forced to spend for those expenses from its own coffers. How will it raise the additional funds? Having to do that will have its direct impact on the common man. Is the common man in Delhi ready for it?

    There have been most vocal demands for full statehood for Delhi. But has anyone given a thought to the additional funding that will be needed to sustain the same? Definitely not.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570632
    If Delhi gets complete state status what will happen, those students (who are not born in Delhi and who had not lived for 10 consecutive years in Delhi) who wrote common entrance state level exams in premium universities in Delhi for attaining a seat in higher studies so they all will be treated as non local's to Delhi so they get a seat in non local category so there are very less seats available in this category majority of the students lost their career and future.
    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570633
    Thanks a lot all to the members who correlated with my views for against of granting a complete state status to Delhi.
    If you ask your doubt you are fool for 5 minutes but if you don't you are fool forever -- Chinese proverb

  • #570634
    A referendum for Delhi as an independent state is totally uncalled for and unwarranted. Allowing a referendum for this purpose will be detrimental to the country's unity. By seeing the Delhites going for a referendum, tomorrow it will be Kashmir, where there will be a call for the same. Why Kashmir alone, many states in the Northeast will follow suit and ask for a referendum or two. Perhaps a chain reaction would start and even the bigger states too won't lag behind. The worst part, these regions won't be asking for the status of an independent state, but they will go one up and will simply ask for independence from the country itself. Who will then stop the avalanche of demands? Kashmir had already once demanded a referendum, which was thankfully not acceded to.

    Thus any demand for referendum should be culled in the beginning itself. It's difficult for me to understand, how the people of Delhi are going to be benefitted with an independent status for their state. It's a clear tactics by the politicians. They simply want to control the police so that they have real power with them and are then able to settle scores with their opponents. It's the same in Bengal, whoever is in power, uses the police to terrorize the opposition and the general population too. Every ruling party, in every state, wants to use the police as a tool or a puppet to flex their muscle power. The present government in Delhi is feeling the pinch, since it is neither having control over Delhi police nor is it in good terms with the central government. What good is a power, when you don't have the muscle power with you. It is thus feeling the need to get the police under its control. Delhi police is well off remaining with the centre and no way should this equation be disturbed. So the idea for a referendum for an independent Delhi should be thrown to the bins, right away.

    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #570647
    Friends, we still have time to debate on more positives and negatives. Let us not lose the spirit! Let the arguments carry on with addition of new points. To give a suggestion, what about the requirement of reservation for local students in Delhi University being projected now? Not whether it is right or wrong but how does it affect our topic under discussion? There are so much more. Just give them a thought!
    Knowledge is knowing tomato is a fruit; Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad - Miles Kington.

  • #570663
    In my previous response (#570541), I mentioned the reasons for not granting full statehood to Delhi. Now let us discuss about the reasons why the present Government of Delhi is clamouring for full statehood.

    1. Delhi and Puducherry have Assemblies. But Puducherry Govt. , unlike Delhi, never seeks statehood, because the Govt. understands that the proposal would not be tenable.
    2. As far as I know, there is no Constitutional provision of referendum in India. So holding referendum for people's opinion on granting full statehood to Delhi is out of question.

    The Delhi CM and his party-members know these facts very well. Then why are they shouting for full statehood? The reasons for their behaviour is to divert the attention of people from their non-governance and various misdeeds including corruption. The mentor of the AAP leaders, Anna Hazare, has time and again expressed his unhappiness over the functioning of the Delhi Govt. Many founder-members of AAP have left the party due to autocratic attitude of Kejriwal and his close colleagues. Moreover, Kejriwal wants to satisfy his core voters, i.e., the people living in slums and other under-developed areas, where his Govt. has not done much developmental work, by raising the demand of full statehood.

    So, although AAP leaders know very well that granting statehood to Delhi is constitutionally not viable and not prudent from administrative and financial point of view, they will go on raising this demand to hide their own non-governance, corruption, arrogance and criminal activities.

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570665
    The demand for the statehood for Delhi has been given an emotional angle. It needs to be viewed contextually. A national capital city needs to be reflective of the diversity of the country. There should not be any option of regionalism.

    Compare Delhi to other major capitals like Washington, Mexico City or Canberra. All of those are not under the jurisdiction of a state government. Delhi needs to have a proper usage of land or building regulations befitting a national capital. A full statehood would mean satiating the local demands would be of prime importance for the local government. That is the reason land control cannot be given to the State government.
    The issue is being given a different angle by comparing Delhi to other state capitals like Bengaluru or Mumbai which is not right.
    Keeping up with the international practice, it would be prudent to stay with the current arrangement. It would be more important to attend to the day to day work more efficiently.

    And I feel that would not need you have a full statehood.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570702
    The topic of the GD is now appearing more or less lobsided as most of the participats are expressing their views justifying only what is right i.e. not to consider according full statehood to Delhi.
    To further affirm the resolve let us examine the issue from the other angle also. Why there is a demand for full statehood and who are likely to get benefitted by the move? The answers need not be repeated as the same has already been covered adequately above.
    It would be prudent to not to repeat the blunder committed at the time of enacting the 69th Amendment Act of 1991. As a matter of fact it was a blunder to accord even a partial statehood to Delhi. Delhi would have been best as an Union Territory only. There was neither any need of a legislative assembly, nor that of a greedy Chief Minister. Only that blunder has ignited the aspiration of the local residents to demand a full statehood now.
    There is still time to mend the ways and don't acceed to the illegitimate demand for a full statehood to the Delhi.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #570706
    Be it Delhi, or any other region that puts in a demand for the separate statehood - the major concern or the beneficiary is the leader who pushes the idea aggressively. It should be noted that most of the times (if not always) the idea behind coming up with such aggression is the secret desire of the concerned leader to become the chief minister. Maybe people will benefit from the formation of the new state, but in case of Delhi it would not be the case. It will be only the leaders who will be benefitted. Neither the state, or the citizens of the state will be benefitted in any way.
    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570818
    As far as the area of Delhi as a state is concerned, it is not even half of Goa, the smallest independent state. Even though Goa is also small, it has its own distinct identity. It has a different language, different culture, ethnicity, food habits and a totally different take on its professions. Whereas, Delhi is too small geographically, even though it might be having a very large population. Moreover, Delhi has the status of National Capital Region (NCR), under which towns from the neighbouring states of UP, Haryana and Rajasthan also come under it. If Delhi is made into an independent state, what will happen to the concept of NCR? How can regions of other states be part of an independent state?

    All through these years, the centre has been pouring exorbitant amounts of funds for the development of Delhi as the national capital. Once the complete control of the national capital goes under the jurisdiction of the state government, the capital city will be at the mercy of the whims of the state government. The state government may not give priority to Delhi as the national capital. It may instead pursue its own priorities and political ambitions and may downplay the role of Delhi as the capital city, just to score some brownie points against the centre.

    In the early stages of the discussion, one of the members supporting the idea of independent state for Delhi had mentioned that, Delhi should be a state because it has a large population. If population could be the criteria, then Sikkim should not be a state at all. Sikkim's population is almost 1/18th of Delhi's population. Delhi's population is not because it is a state, instead it is because of it's being a city, that too a capital city. Because of its attraction of being the capital of one of the most populous country, over the years millions have come to the city from different parts of the country and settled here. Delhi's population is not homogenous at all. It is a lot more cosmopolitan. It doesn't have a population that is limited to one identity, one ethnicity, one language or one culture. It is urbane too. So the city is fit for union territory status only. Yes there's a native population too, who are getting outnumbered by the ever increasing migrant population. As Saji has well suggested, there can be thoughts on providing reservation of seats for the real natives of the region in educational institutions in Delhi. Let's see what happens on that count.

    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #570855
    Well, to summarise my views on why Delhi should be granted a full statehood I can only say that it should be thought beyond the political affiliations. Being a capital city, the issue is quite different from the demands from other regions for the statehood. Mixing it up with the likes of Telangana ( or Vidarbha, for that matter) will not be a good idea.
    The whole issue needs to be viewed from the perspective of national interest. Being a city that houses a huge number of diplomats, the quality of governance also matters much. The level of governance should match with the status that India enjoys - as an emerging developed country.

    The debate on whether to grant a full statehood to Delhi is still open and a lot may transpire between the judiciary and the executive. Till the time the issue reaches a logical culmination, it is just a wait and watch game for the delhiites.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #570861
    By asking for a referendum the present state government is trying to score some brownie points against the central government and the opposition parties in the state. The state government very well understands that a referendum will never be allowed. Whether there is a referendum, or no referendum, the state government is advantaged. The public will take a sympathetic view of the state government's demands. The state government is hoodwinking the people of Delhi, by painting a rosy image, if granted full statehood. A kind of emotional blackmail. Naturally when the demands for referendum will not be met, the people will view the central government as the villain. Thus the state government will get benefited with a favourable public perception towards its demands. So asking for a referendum, is a ploy that is being played by the Delhi government with perfection. One has to admit that the who's who of the present Delhi government are master strategists and are very efficient in pulling down the image of their opposition.

    Well Partha, even though we are warriors fighting for the same cause, I will like to come back to one of your responses ( #570541) where you have mentioned that since the Supreme Court is in Delhi, so it can't be granted full statehood and the other point; the security of the US president or other dignitaries can't be left on a state government, needs further clarification from you. I wonder whether there are any restrictions on having our Supreme Court in one of the states! On the 2nd point, I will like to stress that the state police too can be capable enough. Don't we see the US president visiting the states where the security is managed by the state police as well as the security staff of the US president itself. Moreover, Delhi police is not meant primarily for the visiting heads of state. First and foremost, it's for the residents of Delhi.

    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #570887
    I have presented my argument against the demand of granting full statehood to Delhi. I have also mentioned that the constitutional experts and administrators are totally against the proposal. The proposal of granting full statehood to Delhi has been mooted by political leaders who are extremely short-sighted to understand the horrible implication for this city-state. Alternatively, these political leaders are playing with the sentiments of common people.
    As long as Delhi remains the capital of the country and has a cosmopolitan character, it should not be made a full state. In this connection, I would like to state that some of the members of ISC has advocated shifting of capital from Delhi to elsewhere, especially in the central part of the country. I would simply state that such move would not be administratively prudent and financially appropriate. This step of shifting capital from Delhi would require a mind-boggling sum of Rs. 20,000 crores (minimum), leaving aside the relocation of thousands of families of Government employees. The Government of the country should not and is not planning to take such step. Moreover, shifting of capital is not within the purview of this decision.
    In view of above, we must resist and rebut the senseless demand of granting full statehood to Delhi.

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570958
    #570861: I have already concluded my argument. However, I would like to give clarifications sought by Mr. Dhruv in one of his responses (#570861). Although, nothing is mentioned in any Constitution, the apex Court of almost all countries are located in the capital of the country. This is entirely for administrative convenience. The same is applicable for India also.
    So far as security of foreign dignitaries are concerned, it is true that every state police force can take care of foreign dignitaries, but the Delhi Police has the maximum expertise, training and weapon and instruments for this purpose. This expertise has been acquired over the years (almost 70 years) thanks to huge budgetary provision to Delhi Police by the Central Govt. No other state police can acquire this expertise overnight.
    With this I finally conclude my argument. Best wishes to all participants in this GD!

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #570984
    It is time to sum up as the GD is closing after an hour or so. My concluding remarks are as follows -
    1. To err is human. Let it be accepted by the constitutional authorities that a folly was committed by enacting the 69th Amendment Act of 1991 and the same should be repealed without further delay. The full UT status of the Delhi should be restored.
    2. The people of Delhi should feel proud in living in an UT directedly administered by the august Parliament of the India. They will be able to elect MPs as their representative who will sit in the Parliament and take care of their welfare in an effective manner.
    3. Arvind Kejriwal should be ostracised from the political community at least till the next Parliamentary elections in the year 2019, after dissolution of the Delhi assembly as a consequence of repealing the 69th Amendment Act of 1991.
    At the end let me put in record my sincere appreciation for few rare souls who partcipated in this GD airing their views against what is right , for the sake of continuing this GD.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #571002
    Yes, it is for me to conclude too. The way the present government in Delhi is playing with the people's aspirations, it is going to do more harm than good. Populist policies have never been good anywhere and will not be good in Delhi too. By pledging its support for a referendum, the Delhi government is trying to drum up support from the public for political reasons. The main objective of the present Delhi government seems to belittle the opposition at every opportunity. Development of Delhi and good governance, is a secondary matter for it.
    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #571028
    Thank you everyone for participating in this active GD and it is time to lock this thread. Please wait for the result announcement.
    Regards,
    Jagdish


This thread is locked for new responses. Please post your comments and questions as a separate thread.
If required, refer to the URL of this page in your new post.