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  • Category: General

    What is correct? Vande or Bande?

    This is to note that Bengalis pronunciation of the alphabet V is different from the rest of the states. I have observed one Bengali member saying 'Bande Mataram' instead of 'Vande Mataram'.

    What could be the reason for a Bengali to prounouce V as B. Even they pronounce Vegetable as Begetable.

    Don't they have the alphabet V in their script? Let us discuss it seriously.
  • #575519
    Yes I have also observed that most of my Bengali friends always refer V as B and some other words are also miss pronounced by them. For example of Lakshmi is referred as Lokky. When I was going along with a neighbor who happens to be a Bengali to fetch groceries from the near by store, he suggested to go to Lokky general stores. I was surprised by the name. But on inquiry he was referring to Lakshmi General stores. Like wise the name Vishnu is referred as Bishnu.
    K Mohan
    I consider myself as the learner everyday

  • #575526
    A good discussion and important for everyone to know about this verdict. Actually in Bengali, Odia and Assami people naturally uses B instead of V. Whereas in South India they priorities to V.
    In Odia there is a word as BANDE UTKAL JANANI; means hail to (bande) Odisha (utkal) mother (janani). Similarly Bande Mataram means hail to mother country India.

    Naresh Kumar
    'Every bad situation will have something positive. Even a dead clock shows correct time twice a day.'

  • #575527
    Well, there are many such languages that have their own pronunciation styles. In Tamil, I guess - Cha is pronounced as Ja. Instead of Inches, they use the word Injes. Ka in place of Ka is another change in pronunciation I have observed.

    It is dependent on the preferences of a particular language. Coming to the question, both Bande and Vande are correct. The poem is actually in Sanskrit and the correct word is Vande as long as you go by the grammar rules governing Sanskrit. While in Bengali or Odia, the V becomes B and they pronounce it accordingly. Vande Mataram literally maens (I) salute the Mother.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #575532
    An American or an English individual will also pronounce the word differently. There is nothing surprising in it as the people basically acquire training from their mother's in the mother tongue only. The initial learning is through verbal mode only without referring to any book. Even illiterate people learn basic language from their mothers. Since there are several thousands of languages in the world, all people are not expected to pronounce the same word in the same manner. The pronunciation invariably gets affected by the mother tongue of the individual concerned.

    Take the example of English learned as the second language by the Indian people. Individuals from different states speak the language differently highly influenced by their mother tongue.

    Regarding the word 'Vande' , it is correct as long as the song is sung with due devotion irrespective of its outward pronunciation. Feeling is important, not the pronunciation.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #575533
    My dear members,
    What my doubt is - If the alphabet V can be pronounced only as B, does it mean that the Bengali language has no V(Vi or Vee) in their own Bengali alphabet. If they pronounce all such words starting with V as B, I feel that the Bengalis do not utter V at any cost.

    Should we presume that Bengalis have no connection with ' V' ?

    No life without Sun ¤

  • #575535
    Bengalis always soften the harsh pronunciation. So, in Bengali and towards the eastern side of Bengal, 'V' becomes 'B'. Only for this reason, Bengali, Assamese, Kokborok or Khasi languages are so sweet. Phonetically these languages do not hurt the ears. These are soft, full of sweetness.
    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #575541
    There had always been outstanding singers of Bollywood songs from Bengal e.g. Kishore Kumar, Shreya Ghoshal, Suman Kalyanpur, S. D. Burman, Shaan, Manna Dey, Geeta Dutt, Abhijeet, Babul Supriyo, Bappi Lahiri and Chitra Singh to name a few.

    Most of them were able to learn the correct pronunciation of the Hindi words through persistent efforts and training. It was a compelling requirement also to get success in their chosen profession. The listeners and fan followers were not interested in listening to the pronunciation of 'ba' as 'bha' forever.

    Therefore, through conscientious efforts, they learnt and started pronouncing the Hindi words correctly.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #575544
    May be the language was formulated in such a way so as to create pleasantness before the audience. Of course, in order to have the sweetness of the language the speakers avoid any word starting from V and as we can see that any word starting from B would create a soothing impact in the conversation.
    These people can narrate other languages in an effective way without having any distortions with their consistent practice. The singers from Bengali speaking people like Kishore Kumar and Sherya Ghosal are the examples in this line. In order to have command in any language, general intelligence of the person counts and if one is having any ardent interest in any language, it won't be difficult to be proficient on that domain.

  • #575563
    Yes, I too have heard this pronunciation many times as I live in West Bengal, it is a state of Bengali's, and I must say that their language are very sweet like a rosogola (a famous sweet dish of West Bengal which is eaten with love here) and because of their Bengali phonetic accent they pronounce many words incorrectly and they make that word as their own, there are many Bengali friends of mine who pronounce wrong English too. I don't know but I think because their word Bengali start B that's why they pronounce V as B.
    live happily in every situation of life

  • #575576
    Incidentally, the author of the thread had raised the following thread on similar matter in the past also -
    Why the alphabet 'V' is pronounced like 'B' by our dear Bengali friends?
    The interested members may refer the same also for further insights.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #575596
    So that would make this discussion obsolete. Most of the intricacies of the language have been discussed in there and as usual, nothing conclusive has been arrived.

    Having said that, let me make it clear here that every language has its own style of pronunciation. English spoken by a Tamilian would have an accent of Tamil, so will the Hindi spoken by a Maharashtrian. The effects are bound to be there. Just because a particular language has a different pronunciation, it does not mean the language does not have the alphabet.

    As far as my knowledge goes, Tamil does not have alphabets for Kha, Ga and Gha ( also for Chha, ja and Jha - all others in that order). So, I would not make fun of the language.

    Live....and Let Live...!

  • #575621
    Dear members,
    Once again I reiterate and request the members, especially the Bengali members whether there is an alphabet available for V in Bengali script or not? The response should be either 'Yes' or 'No' only.

    I am sure, English is the language which has minimum alphabets. And all other languages should have the equivalent of English Alphabets. Tamil has extra alphabets than English, and less alphabets than any other Indian languages.

    Also please understand that Sun do not make fun of any language. We are here to discuss issues arising time to time. No fun is intended by Sun.

    In ISC, Members come and go. Similarly threads of same subject likely to come up again and again as newbies are joining ISC on daily basis.

    No life without Sun ¤

  • #575622
    Yes, there is a 'bha' in Bengali. I can mention at least twenty Bengali words where 'v' is clearly pronounced.

    (a) Bhanita (beating around the bush)
    (b) Bhojan (taking food)
    (c) Bhajan (devotional song)
    (d) Bhalo (good)
    (e) Bhishan (very)
    (f) Bhitor(inside)
    (g) Bhanga (break/broken)
    (h) Bhoy (fear)
    (i) Bhaba (think)
    (j) Bhool (wrong)

    In these Bengali words, 'Bh' is clearly pronounced as 'V;.

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #575623
    Partha, What is this? If 'Bh' represents English alphabet 'V" then your words would be pronounced as below:
    (a) Bhanita (beating around the bush) Vanita
    (b) Bhojan (taking food) Vojan
    (c) Bhajan (evvotional song) Vajan
    (d) Bhalo (good)Valo
    (e) Bhishan (very)vishan
    (f) Bhitor(inside)vitor
    (g) Bhanga (break/broken)vanga
    (h) Bhoy (fear)voy
    (i) Bhaba (think)vaba
    (j) Bhool (wrong)vool

    Am I right?

    In Tamil Bengal is known as Vangaalam.

    No life without Sun ¤

  • #575633
    #575623: Yes, Mr. Sun. You can also write these words with 'v'. However, if you hear pronunciation of these words, you will clearly hear the sound of 'v'.
    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #575636
    Mr. Partha,
    Is it not 180 deg opposite? What others pronounce as V is pronounced as B by a Bengali, and what a Bengali pronounces V is pronounced as B by others. I don't think we can hear V in any of the words quoted by you as example like Bhanita, Bhojan etc. Getting more confused with V and B.

    How do you pronounce the following words? Innovation - reservation - cultivation, vocabulary
    Do you pronounce it as innobation, reserbation, cultibation and bocabulary?
    How do you pronounce Voice? - If Boice, then the hearer would mean it as boys.

    No life without Sun ¤

  • #575637
    Mr. Sun, please read my responses carefully. I have mentioned that there is a letter 'Va' ('Bha') in Bengali. I also mentioned that there are at least twenty words beginning with 'Va' ('Bha') where the 'V' is clearly pronounced. I have given ten such examples.

    Are you trying to argue for arguments' sake? Then please explain why 'Alhagiri' is pronounced as 'Azhagiri' in Tamil. Why 'Thiruppugach' is pronounced as 'Thirupughayah'?

    “Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.” - Paul Terry

  • #575638
    Some words are completely different in spelling. Like
    Shobha - Shova
    Binita - Vinita
    Basudha - Vasudha
    Basundhara - Vasundhara
    Dibya - Divya
    Bishnu - Vishnu
    Barsha - Varsha etc..

    Naresh Kumar
    'Every bad situation will have something positive. Even a dead clock shows correct time twice a day.'

  • #575639
    In Tamil, there are three 'L's. one is just L (tongue front in the edge) second is LL (with tongue edge half twisted to the middle) third is Zh (with tongue twisted fully inside). Hence I said Tamil has extra alphabets, and never clashes with English alphabets.

    Partha, Alphabet V is a very common and simple alphabet producing the V sound. I know, you might say like this :
    We are Bengali as Be are Bengali.

    No life without Sun ¤

  • #575723
    We are discussing about the pronunciation of English words by people from different states, not our own words in our regional languages.
    English has got its own spelling and pronunciation methods and rules. We need to follow it. We should not mix up English and our language and speak. If we do it, English would look awkward to us as well to the English speaking people.

    No life without Sun ¤

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