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  • Category: Miscellaneous
    Points:5

    Why ISC curtailing the freedom of members to raise threads ?

    In the recent past the editors are invariably deleting or cancelling my threads citing the reason that similar thread is already existing and comment on it. But some threads are roaming around the first page for long time and there is no compulsion on the members to toe the idea of the particular author and make comments. Moreover every one thinks the issue in different angle and for that matter raising a thread is our right and ISC editors cannot cite silly reasons to curtail our freedom. If this continues only stale threads would be there and new threads would vanish or wont appear.
    This thread is being locked before maturity as main topic has got diverted and needless personal attacks are being done. The topic of a thread should be discussed only and not other things.
  • #587153

    Points:1
    One and half day has been passed. The editor or the admin does not respond to this thread. They are ready to punish or give nil or negative points to us, but fail to respond to important thread. This gives more suspicion about the functioning of editors.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #587159

      

    Points:5
    Mr Mohan, firstly, could you be specific and give the URLs of the threads about which you have complaints? We will look into it and address the issues one by one. Secondly, please do not expect a team to jump into a thread all of a sudden just because you consider it to be important. Thirdly, raising a thread may be the right of a member, but you very well know that they are moderated. No threads will be deleted, or points reduced for any thread or response without a valid reason (not to be quoted).
    Raising threads on the same issue (old or new) and posting irrelevant responses can also make the forum stale and responsible members should ensure that they do not contribute to such a state.
    Now, why do you suspect the editors? Do you feel that a conspiracy is going on? Please do not create such impressions. Mr Mohan, we do allow smooth flow of traffic so that there are no blockades but do shift to the Orange and then to Red when we feel that it is required. The point may kindly be noted.
    'Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment'- Lao Tzu

  • #587160

    Points:3
    Mr. Mohan: There is definitely a policy for the Editorial team, but the policy is not uniformly implemented. This absence of uniformity causes the problem. However, I feel that this is not intentional. But if the Editors don't implement the policy uniformly, deletion of threads, giving 0 credit, etc. will cause dispute and acrimony. I am saying this from my experience. No offence meant to anybody.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587166

    Points:2
    ISC Editors are performing well. I do not support Mohan's complaint. When a thread message is duplicated, it deserves deletion. Members should be careful and should read all the forum threads before they create a new thread. It is not expected from members like Mohan who read through each and every thread posted in the forums.
    No life without Sun

  • #587168

      

    Points:4
    Partha at #587160, do note that the editorial team does have a set policy and we do follow certain basic guidelines but ideas do differ when it comes to perceptions and no one can be blamed. I hope you will appreciate that we have corrected ourselves whenever we were convinced that a mistake has been done. Leave alone the editors, I am sure that a member who has been active in ISC for quite sometime will surely have an idea about the likely fate of his thread/ response/ article etc when he post the same. Ignorance of law is not an excuse, if you would agree. Being critical of the editors is acceptable but I suggest that the same should be logical.
    'Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment'- Lao Tzu

  • #587172

    Points:3
    Mr. Ganesh (#587168): Read your logical reply. Kindly explain the logic behind locking the following thread within one and a half day and before the final reply posted by me:
    Read about my life-tell me who I am- a riddle.

    Because of abrupt locking of this thread, a procastrinator like me had to initiate another thread with trembling fingers during the cold winter morning of Delhi to announce the final reply.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587183

    Points:2
    Partha and Saji,
    It is also true that Editors are hasty in locking certain threads. Editors should leave the contest threads open until it becomes older by 10 days.
    No life without Sun

  • #587187

      

    Points:3
    Partha at #587172. Let me explain. The thread under reference was locked intentionally so that you initiate a fresh thread giving the correct answer and announcing the winners. That was done to put you in line to the way we hold contests at ISC. Do you think that editors who had allotted ten points and ten cc to your thread would lock it in haste without giving it a thought? Please do start thinking with a liberal and cool mind!
    'Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment'- Lao Tzu

  • #587244

      

    Points:0
    Mr Mohan, can we have you back on stage please?
    'Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment'- Lao Tzu

  • #587251

    Points:5
    No matter how liberal and cool minded I try to remain I am unable to digest the explanation given by Saji to Partha's question. Though it does not concern me and I am certain that Partha is capable of speaking for himself, I publish my views to the explanation provided by Saji, as an ordinary member of this site.

    1. Locked intentionally - A little note to that effect either in the thread or as a PM to the author would have been a nice and polite gesture. Locking threads without citing reasons can be/is construed as an authoritarian action. Especially when we are reminded, so often, to be nice to fellow members – this small courtesy extended to a fellow member, by the editorial team, would have been appreciated.
    2. Initiate fresh thread with correct answers, announcing winners – The author did not say it was a contest so the question of 'announcing winners' doesn't arise.
    3. In line with the way contests are held at ISC – Someone assumed it was a contest. It wasn't. Interestingly, an actual contest thread (running concurrently) remained open and was locked much later, after the initiator shared a link to the results thread.
    4. Hasty decision - If details provided above are considered, it does indeed appear to be a hasty decision. Unless there is something else that is not put down in black and white.
    5. Allotment of points & cc –Does cc actually have a bearing on how editors react? I was given cc for one of my recent threads, but that did not stop you from hitting out at me.
    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #587253

    Points:2
    Mrs. Juana: Thanks for your support. Actually I am getting habituated to this type of 'logical' action on the part of some of the Editors. May be I am getting old!
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587288

      

    Points:5
    It may work out if the forum editor posts the reason at the top of a thread when locked early. However, if we give a reason for locking a thread early, then will the members accept it? Look at K Mohan's own thread. A reason was put for it being locked. Yet, he raises this thread saying editors "cannot cite silly reasons to curtail our freedom". Just think, then, what is the point of giving a reason as a courtesy and getting challenged for it? Won't it be an endless merry-go-round - we lock, we give reason, member raises a thread to challenge it, other members give their views, we explain our side of it, some more arguments......it will go indefinitely like this.

    We may also not lock some other thread simply because it was not really seen and thus unaware that it should have been locked.

    As for deleting a thread, most members by now are aware of the reason, having been informed by email or private messages with requests not to post certain types of threads. It is only new members who may not be aware of the type of threads that are unacceptable, in which case they post a query in the forum and get an explanation about it.

    So do tell us, seriously - what other type of step is required from our end to not be silly?!!

    And note that the author of this thread even accused that there was no response from editors after one and a half days - see the time of his thread and the response when he posted first - was that indeed one and a half days? Can he not have the courtesy to wait for a response? We have said earlier too - merely because an editor has not responded does not mean the thread was ignored. What's more, we often taken up forum threads for discussion internally, without really having time to put a response saying so. On top of that, he has not made an appearance again in his own thread to discuss anything further - now, why does he not have time for this, his own "important" thread when he has time to post other threads? See - like this we can have endless silly discussions!!
    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #587301

    Points:3
    "As for deleting a thread, most members by now are aware of the reason, having been informed by email or private messages with requests not to post certain types of threads. It is only new members who may not be aware of the type of threads that are unacceptable, in which case they post a query in the forum and get an explanation about it."-I have never received any e-mail or personal message indicating the reason for deletion of threads. Some reasons are given (which may be ridiculous to me) only when I shout about earlier deletion in a subsequent thread.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587304

    Points:2
    Never there was an occasion that I was informed about the deletion of my thread message or response and locking of threads. I am hearing a new thing for the first time from our ME. Partha too correct with his statement.

    What I suggest is - After giving the reason for deletion, add a phrase ' No query will be entertained'.
    No life without Sun

  • #587307

    Points:5
    I am responding to Vandana's post because a lot of it addresses topics that I raised. However, before I begin, I want to enunciate that voicing of opinions should not be taken as arguments. It would be nice if mere discussions are not termed as arguments, each time a member comes up with a point that goes against the action of the editorial team. Opinions must be taken in the right spirit.

    Courtesies – Should a practice be stopped because one member responds aggressively? In life, things do not always go as per plan. It is quite likely that the member did not see the message explaining why his thread was locked.

    Merry-go-round - When an issue is raised it is only natural for other aggrieved members to share their grievances – why be afraid of answering questions? As for other members giving their views, isn't the forum meant for active participation. It's what keeps the forum alive. Such interventions can be seen as feedback.

    Invisible thread – I agree, it is quite possible that editors do (did) not see a (the) thread and hence miss (missed) locking it. The problem is you responded to the thread in reference. Moreover, it remained on the first page for days. That it went unnoticed is implausible.

    How not to be silly – The only recipe for that would be to put some thought into a response before posting it, so members see reason and do not find anything amiss. It is only when what is being conveyed appears distorted that voices rise. #587251 elucidates what I mean. Condescending behaviour needs to stop too. It is often that the attitude is wrong – it is hard to be calm around someone throwing their weight around.

    One and a half days – So, he exaggerated – it has happened before – it happened to me, to be precise, not so long ago!

    Members and courtesy – Of course the member should have been patient – so what if 24 hours had elapsed. He should have known that editors are busy people. It is also true that when one is upset, patience takes a back seat.

    Silly discussion – Isn't 'silly' a synonym for a highly contentious word. How appropriate is it to use it to describe discussions initiated by members?

    The editor was right in locking the thread, because the rule cited, for locking the thread, is known to most members. I would have stayed away from this thread had it not been for Saji's response, which had inaccuracies. Should those questions not have been asked? Is this really a silly discussion?
    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #587309

    Points:5
    Please excuse me for what I am going to say!

    ISC is no longer the ISC of yesteryear's. Earlier too, members used to have complaints and grudges, but they used to do it in a polite manner, except a few (including me). The disgruntled members used to raise such threads earlier too, but nobody or just one or two members used to jump in the thread, argue too much and accepted what the editors & webmasters used to say. They never used to stand in groups.

    What is happening now? A disgruntled member raises a thread, so many members jump in, stand in a group against the editors & admin. Some members are on a look out with their microscopes for the opportunities to vent their anger against the editors & admins. They keep on arguing, do not accept the explanation of editors & webmasters. Yes, I said - webmasters. I can substantiate that. The editors keep on explaining their actions to all & sundry patiently, but the members do not budge from their stand.

    Yes, I do agree that ISC is by the members, and I do not deny the fact that they should be allowed to air their views or complaints. But, so many members jumping in, start to pull the thread in different directions and the main issue is most of the times lost somewhere.

    When & why did this start?
    It all started somewhere in the mid of 2015. A you-scrub-my-back-and-I-scrub-your's group came up. Few members joined hands behind the scenes and few other gullible and naive members became the member of the group unknowingly, unaware of the evil designs of the founders of the group. Prior to that (mid of 2015), if there were any issues between a member & an editor, they used to be dealt with privately by emails & PMs, but towards the end of 2015 (within 6-7 months), that route for raising issues had to be stopped because of reasons which are not explainable in open forums.

    My view is that the admin have been too lenient towards the erring members. They gave in to some unworthy demands. It was and is their magnamity that they did not ban a few members, when they should have. They tried to give indirect hints in the forums to the members and might have tried to reason out with them privately through mails too. Well, I am not privy to such things and it is my guess only. Even if they banned a few members in 2016, it was not announced in forums, and nobody knew about such suspensions except one or two odd cases. That encouraged some members to go overboard.

    If the suspension of the members were announced in forums, irrespective of their membership level, the situation would been different now.
    Secondly, I do not see any reason why editors should give explanations in every second thread. Once in a while it is OK, but doing it on daily basis, wastes the time of the editors. Like Sun mentioned herein above, just a plain - no queries will be entertained on the issue - should be implemented.
    Thirdly, some regular members have forgotten that editors are voluntary, and they are not paid employees. The members demand explanations from the editors as editors were their employees. The regulars should be more sensitive to the issues. They should not stand in groups.
    Everybody knows - to err is human. The editors are humans too and not machines. They have their personal lives too. So, an occasional lapse on the part of editors should not be latched on to as an opportunity to show the editors in bad light.
    Fourthly, the route of PMs & emails to address issues can be re-opened, if the admin think that it is suitable, since a few hurdles have disappeared on their own.

    I have been a member since Feb 2011, and have not been contributing much since Oct 2014, but I do open ISC everyday, and have been aware of the happenings. Please do not ask me to elaborate anything since it would not be appropriate to directly name anybody in forums.

    Members, please be rational & reasonable in your demands and give the editors their space and some leeway too, the way the admin have been adjusting each one of us over the years by turning a blind eye to our misdemeanor.
    When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new!

  • #587310

    Points:2
    #587309: I can only talk about myself. Since my student days, I have never been a member of any (formal or informal) group. Due to my inability, I have had to face many difficulties, in school, college, university and in work-place also. Even after spending 49 springs (or winters?) in this Earth, I still say whatever I feel, without thinking about possible repurcussions.

    So far as my behaviour in ISC is concerned, I will open my mouth (or use my key-board) whenever I feel there is some injustice or illogical thing happening. But it does not mean that I have any personal grievance against any Member of ISC including any Editor. And Webmasters? My interaction with them is barest minimum.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587311

    Points:1
    Mohan,

    A one-line answer to your thread title - Master of the house sets the rules of the house, isn't it?!
    When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new!

  • #587312

    Points:5
    Let me tell you. I had said I would never come to this site and I would not. However if any one means anyone will directly or indirectly involve me in any discussion, I am not going to just seat and watch.

    My reply to Gypsy, who think he is saint. I would like to remind him that the forum started spoiling not in 2015 but in 2012-13. And he has to take blame on it for what is forum now. He used to take every members for granted, using his own cheap type of words. And accidentally met with me. And as per his character he used the famous seven letter abusive words thinking I too would tolerate him like other few members. The most important part of that incident is even after using such abusive word not a single editor said a single word to him. All the editors were silent. That was the first time I thought that this place is not good for members who will digest even their insult. And the webmaster went to search Google if that word is abusive or not and after finding fault he would take action. Only one member I would not take her name came to support to me as she do for everyone.

    The actual problem started at that time seeing favouritism by no other than but administration themselves. Since then the relationship between me and Gypsy is world known. The explanation given to me that behind the scene some action had taken to Gypsy for his behaviour when he had abused me in open forum. Actually the thing is our LE Saji has a big supporter of Gypsy, take saji record and see if ever he has used such hard word as he use for other members? He comes like Barking to every member as if the members are slave to him but no matter how big mistake or word Gypsy will use he will be silent.

    So, the first thing is "favouritism", soon the editors stop doing this the better. Yes, editors are voluntary, So? They have to take decision without taking anyone's side or having soft corner.

    But here they think even Top place than the webmaster. First the ME and LE should learn how to talk then they should come out and give suggestion.

    As per Gypsy some hurdles are disappeared, would like to tell him that don't be under any impression, whenever the time will come the hurdles will show you the right path.

    If any one who should go away to keep forum clean the first person should go is Gypsy. Because of his ego and showing his weight over others the forum has spoiled. And not to take editos Ohhh they think they are God. The member should get offended ...it will be OK but editor should not. Their words should be taken as final call? Common on what place you are ?

    Yes, I too know that old matter should not bring out again and again but if the member like Gypsy talk unnecessary nonsense, I am here to come again and again.

  • #587317

    Points:1
    Generally a show cause notice is issued to the wrong doer. ISC can also ask the member as to why the thread should not be deleted or removed through personal message and that will give the opportunity to put forth our view to either accept or rejected by the editor. And if the editor feels that the thread is against the policy and offending let it be put under disable mode so that no one could respond unless and until the author gives proper reply to the ISC.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #587322

    Points:5
    Gypsy,

    I contemplated ignoring your post, but then it's a veiled comment that implicates me, and I thought, it better, to put some shades into a picture that has been painted with one brush and in one colour.

    To begin with, I am unaware of any 'quid pro quo' camp involving ISC members. Hence, please scratch my name off that list. I have never called out for support nor will ever do that. You are entitled to your observation about members, but I do not believe there are any members who work stealthily, as a group. On the contrary, my observation is that editors have a great support system. I am not terming it as 'you scratch my back and I scratch yours', but I do find them coming out in support of their peers, which is a good thing. However, it often comes across as ganging up against a member, especially when comments shift from the core issue and personal comments and accusations are hurled. Issues can be resolved faster, without much bad blood, if editors who are not involved, refrain from commenting – of course, this is not a diktat, just a suggestion. The thing is everyone is entitled to their view – which is why members also join a discussion with their views.

    I appreciate the voluntary work being done here – and I think everyone on ISC is a volunteer. None of us is a paid employee, we get remunerated for our contributions, as and when we make them. This is true for ordinary members like me and the editors, for their editorial work. The only difference between these two types of members is that one membership comes with power and with power comes responsibility. Yes, to err is human – and to acknowledge one has erred is magnanimous.

    Microscopes, opportunities and venting anger – Microscopes become redundant when something is evidently obvious. I do not have the time to sift through all the material here to grab an opportunity to vent anger – that would be time-consuming and so petty.

    You appear to be privy to a lot of information, but then you're also down to guess work. If some matters cannot be spelt out in the forum why bring them up. There is so much left for members to infer.

    I agree with you that names of members, who are placed under suspension, should be published. I was a victim of a malicious attack by a member – action against him should have been made public.

    The above is neither a jibe at you nor at any editor – it is a reply to what you had to say – it became imperative for me to respond since I could be the one you discussed in your post. So, please excuse if sentiments are hurt.
    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #587324

    Points:3
    I think this thread is taking a diverted route. Let us discuss seriously whether the members freedom to post is curtailed by the ISC Editors or not.

    I would say YES. Threads are locked without any reason and proper explanation. ISC should not lock the threads or delete the threads blindly without any explanation. Such explanation should be given in the same thread as a response. So that any reader going through the thread will understand why such threads got locked. This will also help the new members to understand and act accordingly.

    Members, Kindly avoid posting your past disgruntlement and frustrations in this thread. It is really boring to read the extraordinarily lengthy responses of few members who have shifted from the thread topic to show off their personal feelings against the members.

    @ Dear all, Please put yourself on the right track.
    No life without Sun

  • #587325

      

    Points:2
    Jeets at #587512. I think you have a moral responsibility to corroborate the personal allegation against me by placing sufficient material on record. Could you please do so?
    'Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment'- Lao Tzu

  • #587328

    Points:2
    Is it called 'washing dirty linen in public'? However, a person having interest in history, will acquire valuable material relating to the formative years of ISC from this thread.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence

  • #587329

    Points:5
    Editors are already a team and they have their duties cut out. Saying that they gang up against a member or come in support of their peer (a veiled accusation), is like stretching the things too far. As we can see that some members are sort of allergic to a particular editor or a member, so to make that member understand things, another editor joins the discussion. What is the harm in that? But the members making a team to go after a particular editor is personal vendetta.

    Like it is said that everything looks yellow to a jaundiced eye, so, if we do not think rationally & logically, and keep on harping on the same issues again & again, then nothing is going to be solved and the situation is going to worsen.

    Everybody has his own circumstances, logic, IQ level, perceptions, so everybody interprets the things in his own way. So, one members perception can be a mis-perception for the other member.

    Yes, to err is human and to acknowledge one has erred is magnanimous. And to forgive the errant is divine. So, why do members just keep on digging the old graves?

    I did not name anyone, but a few members have assumed that I was talking about them and that's why they have responded to my post directly addressed to me. Well, here comes the perception & mis-perception thing into play.

    I was talking in general and now I have been attacked. Those who have attacked me think that I am supporting the prevalent practices, which is not at all true.

    What I meant was that like the errant members are adjusted by the admin, the occasional lapse by editors should not be latched on to settle the personal scores, which is very much evident in forums these days.

    Juana, the jibe did not hurt my sentiments at all, so no need to ask to be excused!
    When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new!


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