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  • Category: Suggestions

    Why some of us (including the Editors) have become so intolerant?

    This is in respect of the following two threads:-

    1. How many of male allow their wives to call them by name and both agreed to this (This thread is prematurely locked).
    2. Tipu Sultan Mosque's Imam Barkati has issued a fatwa on Narendra Modi (This thread has been deleted).

    So far as the first thread is concerned, an interesting discussion was going on. Some Members said that a wife can call her husband by name, and there should not be any objection to this. Some Members, especially Mr. Sun, were opposed to this idea. I have noticed that some Members used abusive language against Mr. Sun, although indirectly. At last a Member posted a derisive comment against Mr. Sun and the thread has been closed.

    In this connection, I would like to know whether the Editors and some Members have the special power to ridicule other Members, or not. I am also not in favour of Mr. Sun in this regard. But I do not have the authority to ridicule Mr. Sun. And I feel that the Editors are misusing their power to abruptly close threads without giving opportunity to some Members to defend their position.

    So far as my own deleted thread about Imam Barkati is concerned, I was expecting this fate for this particular thread. It is really sad that some Editors do not have the courage of conviction to condemn the fatwa issued by the Imam against the country's Prime Minister. Instead the thread has been deleted – perhaps to champion the cause of secularism!
  • #588002
    I think its because we are Indian.
    Here you have to freedom to spoken but you can't speak against some one.
    Because our tradition is alive in our socitey still now.
    You don't blame every men but also some women support these type of things.I can't write h

  • #588004
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    No life without Sun

  • #588023
    As per the thread and the responses I feel the members are becoming intolerant and finding points to blame editors. The thread must be deleted or blocked for some reasons which can't be disclosed. When they working in the organisations they have to listen to their seniors which they have done. That doesn't mean we should blame the editors. Using unpleasant words depends upon the person behavior. In ISC no kid is participating we all are matured so we should control our words where regularly ISC is mentioning that we should not use such unpleasant words but still its going on.

  • #588025
    Yes when the things are going out of hand, we also become intolerant and same is the case with editors and members here. As long as a thread goes with its path no problem and with one deviation the entire thread is hijacked and comments starts which eventually lead to abrupt locking or even deleting some comments made out of intolerant. Nevertheless the ISC must allow some discussions in right direction and editors should exercise their right to tame the member deviating rather than punishing the author by closing or locking the thread which is incorrect.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #588038
    I will be waiting for future threads and responses giving lofty lectures on freedom of expression.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588040
    Are there any editors to come forward and respond to this that directly hints at the editors? I disagree to say that members are not tolerant. I am sure, Members are tolerant with their right to argue and discuss with their good thoughts and feelings. Members are many, and editors are too less. What is required is the tolerance of editors who should respond like members and act like members in a thread discussion. Editors too are members.

    In the thread in question, the editor did not make any effort to discuss, but only to blame a particular member and lock the thread.

    Editors, you must change.

    No life without Sun

  • #588049
    I am astonished to find that Mr. Sun's response #588004 has been deleted and negative point has been awarded. In this connection, I would like to know how response no. #588002 is relevant to this thread. Can any Editor explain?
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588051
    I too wonder with the deletion of my response 588004. What was wrong with my response? It is much relevant to this thread. May I know the cause for deletion, my dear good editors?

    I think, none of the ISC editors have guts to answer my simple question due to their intolerant attitude. Hence they deleted my response.

    Thank God, they did not lock this thread.

    No life without Sun

  • #588081
    I think it is my responsibility to clear off the air as I was the editor to object some comments of a reputed member of this site in this thread which was later locked by some other editor. Moreover, the topic chosen by the author of this thread is 'intolerance' correlating to the behavior of some members/editors.

    Just go through the link of the thread on 'name calling' by the spouse and read all the responses that make you understand who is tolerant and who is intolerant/provoking the other end. As someone has already said that we are not kids to get convinced with logical arguments and everyone knows whom we are targeting in the name of sharing our views. I do agree that I am a member first and the role of Editor comes next as long as a discussion goes smoothly. But a casual talk or utterance of a loose word by a member would change the complexion of the game in the thread discussion which would damage the reputation of the site and we can't expect Webmaster/ME to monitor each and every thread. Here comes the role of an Editor on line and any failure on his part to control the member would badly affect the image of the site and the WM and not the member or the Editor. That's why I have asked the member whether his comments were intentional or resultant due to flow of words, which sometimes happen, just giving a chance to switch on to damage control mode. Yet, he continued the argument and I don't know whether I am tolerant or not but left the discussion to his 'good sense'.

    I can cite lot of examples to substantiate the maximum tolerance limit by ISC admin and the editors by sparing some members who constantly choose every opportunity to target some members, but we are all living in a friendly atmosphere in this virtual world. Let us hope they would also change one day!

    Why religion should be brought into a discussion of general nature? Doesn't affect the very basic bonding thread of 'our communal harmony'? Further, we have been telling some members time and again to desist from targeting a particular community and they are choosing the ISC platform to propagate their ideals through one means or the other and leave no chance to call others who don't support their views as liberals or pseudo liberals or whatever. Strict instructions were given from ISC admin not to entertain such threads that are likely to promote communal disharmony.

    Partha, as regards your thread, Issuing a fatwa against the PM is something that need to be disagreed to. I have gone through the thread and found that the framing of the contents in such a way to blame an entire community for what one or few of them does is not acceptable and the deletion of the thread by the Editor concerned is quite right and done in consultation with the group.


  • #588082
    Mr. Jagdish Patro: I have read your lengthy explanation. Kindly let me know when and where I blamed 'an entire community' in the deleted thread. I specifically mentioned the name of the person who issued the fatwa and the name of another person, who is unfortunately a Member of Parliament, who supported the fatwa. Where did you find the 'entire community'? Is that 'particular community' consist of only two persons?

    Moreover, can you show me even a single sentence in various sections of ISC where the fatwa against the INDIAN PRIME MINISTER has been condemned?

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588083
    Mr. Editor,
    Have we done away with the religion in our country? No. the religion still exists and a cordial relationship is maintained between the members from the different religions. What I wanted to know is the practice being followed in each religion. It did not target any particular member. It was a general discussion combining all the religions. Except the editor, no one came forward and said that they were hurt or insulted by the responses/query posted by me. Still, I would say that the thread responses were very genuine and common to all. By saying one particular religion permits name calling, the religion is not disrespected. It is the fact brought out. Say yes or no and kill the issue. My argument is - In India, approx 90 percent couple address their hubbies with due respect 'Ji' with a lot of love and affection and care. Also, the remaining 10 percent address their spouses by name with abundant love and care. So, who are the 10 percent? I am sure it is the religion that I quoted. Can anyone deny this fact? If any member feel themselves hurt by my responses, I would feel sorry for that. But I don't think I have hurt someone's religious feeling. Affected members (not editors) can come up and post their views in this thread.

    Editor Patro: You can also answer my question and put a stop to it.

    No life without Sun

  • #588093
    Partha at #588082, could you please read the thread in question along with the responses and have the same view? I don't think so.
    'Don't miss the Donut by looking through the hole'- Anonymous.

  • #588099
    Mr. Saji Ganesh (#588093): I haven't unerstood which thread you are talking about. There are three threads (including the present thread) which are being discussed.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588101
    Partha, when I am referring to your response at #588082, there need not be any doubt as such. However, since you are in doubt (?), I will make it clear, for your convenience, that I was referring to your thread about the fatwa issued against our PM.
    'Don't miss the Donut by looking through the hole'- Anonymous.

  • #588104
    Mr.Saji Ganesh (#588101): Now I have clearly understood! Perhaps you would be kind enough to mention how I can read deleted thread and responses to that thread.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588119
    Partha, I have opened the thread for you and will keep it open till afternoon today.
    'Don't miss the Donut by looking through the hole'- Anonymous.

  • #588122
    Thanks to Mr. Saji Ganesh for giving me a chance to read my own thread very minutely. In the deleted thread I talked about the fatwa. I talked about a cancelled seminar on Kashmir and Bauchistan. I named some eminent persons who could not speak in the seminar. Nowhere in that thread I mentioned any community. I also concluded that West Bengal is becoming more and more secular.

    I have also read the responses of Mr. Mohan and Mr. Sun. None of them mentioned any community in their responses.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588147
    Speaking about intolerance in general and not necessarily in reference to the threads quoted by you, yes Partha, you are very much correct in saying that many of us have these days become a lot intolerant. Actually, it's not us alone. The complete world is going in a similar direction. It's unfortunate', we are increasingly getting radicalised these days. Ironically, it is education and the advancements in the information technology that is encouraging a good many young people to follow the intolerant path. Even in the western world, people are no more as accepting as they used to be earlier. The last American election was fought very bitterly and that itself is a pointer to intolerance. In West Asia, the intolerance of the so called Islamic State is a very disturbing trend that needs to be tackled by the world at the earliest. The world needs to come together to achieve that.

    The reason why we are intolerant could be many. Today we are living in a very competitive world. A kind of rat race is on. More and more people are migrating to cities, towns and even other countries. It's natural, when people migrate they take with them their customs, rituals, habits, etc. Earlier, people used to happily adapt themselves to their new surroundings. But these days, people stick to their old beliefs and customs in the new place. I remember, many of the earlier Indians who used to migrate to the western world were as good as westerners in terms of appearance, language, dress sense and accent. But these days you can hardly differentiate between a NRI and a resident Indian. NRIs and even other nationalities too are no more inclined towards getting fully absorbed by the host culture. 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do', this notion has been dumped now.

    Moreover, with population exploding and more and more people getting educated, there aren't enough opportunities for all. In cities, you aren't surrounded with green and serene surroundings anymore. We live in concrete match box kind of apartments. Life has become fast and stressful. So it's natural that trying to keep pace with the society, the technological changes and the uncertainties in life; there is an increased tendency of our getting intolerant about everything. The information overdose, internet and the media plays its role too in spreading intolerance by pitting communities, groups, nationalities against one other. The demographic changes witnessed in Assam and parts of West Bengal is alarming. But, weapons and confrontations do not solve such issues. Europe too is facing the same music. But then, it has only itself to blame. The way the US and some European countries fanned the culture of wars in West Asia, the repercussions are now there in terms of massive exodus of people from West Asia to Europe. Thus, with weapons or hatred we can't win the war against intolerance. Experience in the Gulf shows that more you try to subjugate your opponents, more radical they become. Same in our country too. It's through inclusion and shifting our focus from religion, we and our children can get back the peace. People from every community need to learn to be tolerant about the other's culture. Cultures need to intermingle, so there's not much distinction between communities. Shun the disruptive elements through cooperation not by antagonising each other.

    I am sure Partha, you are not as radically inclined against other communities as many would like to believe by reading your posts. It is the threat to peace and tranquillity and to the country that makes you speak out hard against the disruptive elements, that I do understand. We the liberals or pseudo liberal (or whatever) too oppose such elements tooth and nail. It's only that we want to take the moderates from every community along with us in our fight against such elements. It is by taking them along that we can finish off radicalism. Definitely not by fighting among ourselves.

    Patience and perseverance pays

  • #588154
    Mr. Dhruv: You have raised many issues which are presently being debated all over the world. Although I am a below-average individual with no intellect, I am trying to present my own perspective.
    (a) Intellectual arrogance: The left and liberal intelligentsia all over the world has been suffering from this syndrome. So, they can't see the writing of the wall. This class could not understand people's anger in 2014 (in India). They have not understood the same during the Presidential election of US in 2016. Now they are crying wolf.
    (b) I am quoting Rabindranath Tagore's lines: "Onyay je kore, ar onyay je sohe, tobo ghrina tare jeno trino-somo dohe". My inappropriate translation: 'A person who commits injustice/crime and a person who accepts/ignores injustice/crime, are equally hated by the Almighty'. Now please think whether we are ignoring the injustice/crime, or not.
    (c) I am really interested to know how this perception that I am 'radically inclined against other communities' has developed in ISC. If raising thread on insult of the Prime Minister of the country (a Constitutional post) by a 'fatwa' gives this perception, I can't really help. And if deletion of such protesting thread helps somebody to gain the 'liberal' status, the person is welcome to become a great liberal.
    I will definitely present my perspective on the issues which you have raised in due course.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588219
    Partha at #588154, just check your contribution list in the past few months and make sure that the fatwa thread is the only one that has been raised by you aiming (directly or indirectly) at a particular community. You may be radical or liberal and that is not an issue with us, but ISC as such cannot be (knowingly or unknowingly) made a party to individual inclinations. Let us agree that many a time, the words we use or the sentences we create to express our feelings or ideas may jump the fence if we are not careful; and let us also agree that a reader has the freedom to interpret what an author writes. An editor often stands in between and looks at both sides before taking a decision in such cases. In cases where we have some doubt, we do wait for some responses also. To err is human and editors are also human but, as I have said in a few threads raised earlier by you and a few others about abrupt locking/deletion of threads, our team has specific instructions and we do make an effort to check and correct ourselves whenever a complaint has been raised. So, let us maintain the harmony in the site and move ahead.
    'Don't miss the Donut by looking through the hole'- Anonymous.

  • #588224
    Yes, Mr. Saji Ganesh. You maintain the harmony in this site at the cost of the grave danger to the integrity being faced by the nation! Nothing more should be said.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588252
    Partha at #588224, don't tell me that Nationality and integrity are new born babies. They were always there but was never an issue as it is today. I have made my view quite clear at # 588219. Let us leave the discussion on this topic here and carry on with the main topic, if at all we have something to say. A close observation of the developments in this thread leaves one in doubt whether diversion from the main thread can be double-edged!
    'Don't miss the Donut by looking through the hole'- Anonymous.

  • #588256
    Mr. Saji Ganesh: As a son of refugee parents, I have heard many incidents which happened during partition, but I won't mention those here. However, if you read the Indian newspapers of the period, you won't find much about the holocust. In this context I would like to mention about 1990, when Kashmiri Pandits had to leave Kashmir valley. Indian media were extremely quiet during that period. Whatever little used to be published at that time, would conclude that the bad days would be over and after the unrest, the Kashmiri Pandits would again return to their homeland. Those good days haven't yet arrived even after 27 years.
    A similar problem has begun in West Bengal and in some other parts of the country. We should not be silent now. In such cases, silence is a criminal offence.
    I don't know whether this response will be treated as relevant, or not.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588260

    A genuine request since you are the author of this thread - would it be Ok to lock this thread now, move on please and participate in other threads' discussions?

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #588261
    As the ME has personally requested to lock this thread, I accede to her request (although many issues raised here by various Editors have not been discussed). At the same time, I would also request her to instruct the Editors not to lock or delete threads without informing the authors about the reasons, at least for courtesy's sake.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #588263
    Thank you Partha for acceding to my request.

    As indicated in this thread, though, editors will not necessarily give a reason for early locking or deletion of each and every thread. We honestly did discuss it in depth with the Webmasters too and then posted that thread. So we hope members will try to have a little more gentle understanding about our role & responsibilities as editors.

    Let's have a good 2017 ahead in the forum shall we?

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

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