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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Should we ban beef sale in our country?

    Should we ban sale of beef and it's consumption in our country? While we can eat goat meat/sheep meat (mutton) and pig meat (pork), what is the necessity to ban cow meat (beef) in our country? The goat meat is costly and not affordable by the poor. The ban would affect the poor.

    Should our government ban only beef eating and permit other animal- flesh eating? What is the logic in it?
  • #599474
    why are you raising such controversial thread? which can hurt the feeling of people. what is the necessity to eat meat once nature has given so many vegetarian food. Indian constitution Article 48 give the provision to ban cow slaughter like wise Article 21 gives right to life to people. Now is it clear both the meats can not be allowed to eat.
    The greatest wealth in this world is mental peace and good health.

  • #599475
    Let us try to discuss the issue dispassionately. So far as red meat is concerned, ham or bacon is much more tasty than various products of beef. The cost of ham and bacon is also cheap. The quality of ham is much better than beef. This is because the beef which people eat is from very old cow or bull. Goat meat can be easily made more affordable by increasing its production everywhere in the country. This is very easy because goat procreates very rapidly. Last but not the least, rabbit meat can also be used by Indian people because of its good taste and rapid procreation.

    We have to change our mindset and food-habit only to some extent. This is from my personal experience.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599566
    We are in a democratic country. we can express our views openly. But we should not misuse this. Unnecessarily we should not get into controversies. As learned people we have to follow rules and regulations made by the government from time to time .
    always confident

  • #599567
    Dear members,
    We Indians (majority of the Indians) had been eating beef since time immemorial. Why a sudden change now with the BJP government? So, beef eating is according to the whims and fancies of the political party that rules our country. Why the UPA government did not think about this ban on beef? Why the earlier governments did not try to impose ban on beef eating. It seriously affects the sentiments of the people who eat beef.

    The government cannot/should not impose such ban on the eating habit of the people in a democratic country. Beef eating is permitted throughout the world. Why should India think it other way?

    No life without Sun

  • #599568
    Partha says ham and bacon are tastier than beef. Only someone who has eaten both can decide which tastes better – so either you are a beef eater, or are mouthing someone else's views. Anyway, the taste is a matter of personal choice.

    Ham and bacon are not Indian delicacies. Very few Indians eat ham and bacon. Those who eat pork prefer to make a curry or pickle it.

    Neither can be enjoyed with an Indian meal.

    Indians like to chew their meat – and neither ham nor bacon is meaty in texture. Very few people I know, among meat eaters, like these cold cuts. Only those who grow up eating it like it – for others it is an acquired taste.

    Ham and bacon are both cured and are very high in sodium. Even the westerners realise the health issue posed by excessive consumption of ham and bacon.

    And the strips of fat (I love it) on the bacon, is not really healthy.

    The cost – ham and bacon are delicacies or gourmet foods, as far as the Indian palette is considered. The price is anywhere between Rs.350 and Rs.1450 for 250g. Is that cheap?

    The quality of ham depends on the quality of pork. Pork from Farm bread animals is good. Strays eat dirt.

    Rabbit meat is a delicacy, but not many like it for its toughness. The same way that many prefer broiler chicken to country foul.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #599572
    Many people would be astonished to know that whatever I had written in my previous response is based upon my personal experience.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599576
    I think we are going too far by touching certain controversial issues by means of discussion in the Forum and I prefer to lock this thread.

  • #599577
    There is a difference between meat and beef. Goats are not prayed by one section of the society and hence there is no harm in eating meat. But when it comes to beef, surely it affects the sentiments of the community. Mind it not all the people would eat beef but only handful of them do it. Even then when the Central government issued a ban order for beef across the country, the protest began to call back the decision. Go hathya is considered against a community and thus the government has the responsibility to protect the feelings of the people. Why the government has not touched mutton or meat, because it does not hurt the sentiments of the people. So protests by some vested interest should not bother the government By the way when the popular government comes with the order, it has to be followed because they have the mandate.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #599578
    The thread is to discuss about the beef, not the ham or bacon. Kindly don't go off the track. Should we ban beef in our country or continue with the beef eating culture? Discuss with a good thought to the subject in question.

    No life without Sun

  • #599579
    How should we dispose off the old and retired cows and bulls? Have you thought about it. The animal is helpful to the human beings as a meat or beef to satisfy the food need of the people. India is a secular country with all the religions that promotes beef eating. So a ban is not recommended.

    Mr. Patro:
    Why are you worried about the controversies? Controversy is the essence of discussion.So, don't be in a hurry to lock or delete this important thread that is being discussed by Indians outside ISC.

    No life without Sun

  • #599581
    But in the name of retired cows and bulls, the gullible are targeting the working cow which seems to be more interested and fetch good returns on their investment. Invariably when ever task force police has apprehended the van carrying the cattle, only energetic cows were found and not the retired or old bulls. So in the name of satisfying the needs of beef eating public , innocent animals are being sacrificed much to the sentiments of the people who pray for them. Now I could see the cows which used to roam free in Hyderabad streets are not seen with this ban. Then my apprehensions were right.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #599593
    I support the ban because of the following reasons:

    1) I believe, a world with less pain and suffering is better than a world with more pain and suffering

    2) Cruelty is wrong and should not be supported

    3) It is morally wrong to treat animals inhumanly for no good reason

    4) I don't believe in killing animals to consume for dietary requirement

    5) It is our duty to preserve environment for our future generation.

    6) In modern agricultural society hunting for meat is not necessary. Killing animals is ok for hunter-gatherer people.

    I would like to hear the objections of this argument,

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #599594
    You are wrong Mr. Mohan. It is the food chain that God has created for the human beings and animal beings. Nothing on this earth should go as a waste. The cow/bull/buffallo skin is used for making of percussion musical instruments. If beef eating is to be banned, why should we use the same animal skin be used to beat and make noise during auspicious occasions? Should the percussion instruments made out of the animal skin be treated as holy? Is it right?

    Government should first ban all the cow skin products and then think of banning eating beef.

    A cow should be allowed to die naturally. And then it should be carried to the burial or cremation ground for the last rites. Its skin should not be removed for any purpose. What do you say?

    No life without Sun

  • #599601
    Human civilization turned from hunter-gatherers to food producers approximately 13000 years ago. Animal extinction was responsible for this shift. This shift triggered advancement of civilization. Hunter-gatherers became farmers.

    No need of banning animal skin products. As civilization advances, these products become obsolete . (I think, many countries banned the use of animal skin products.)

    For your last paragraph, I don't have answer.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #599603
    Sun one thing is sure , when the government has taken this major decision, they would certainly know how to dispose of aged cows when they die. There must be way to get rid of this problem too. Just wait for government announcement.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #599630
    The beef eaters are not harming the people or the state or the country. It is the Hindu political party who acts on the order of saints who try to take charge of the government.

    You cannot just bring a sudden end to many century old practice. Government should call for an all religion meeting to decide this issue. Even many Hindus will favour beef eating. In our country, 75 percent of Hindus are non vegetarians and many of them are beef eaters.

    No life without Sun

  • #599638
    Beef can be taken by the beef-lovers, that is not the issue. But to organise festival of beef-eating in various places including the lawn of the IIT is against Article 48 of the Constitution. Hasn't it been done to create enmity between communities? Hasn't this been done to ridicule the belief of considerable number of people? Is the lawn of IIT meant for such purpose?

    Some political leaders have lost all sense propriety to play vote bank politics. Should we also fall in this trap?

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599653
    There was no such beef eating issue anywhere in our country. It is the latest government that creates a divide between the beef eaters and non beef eaters. Food eating habits of individuals should not be questioned. Beef has become a normal and a common non vegetarian food like any other non veg food. Beef is served in hotels for the party and the public. When we can eat imported cow meat(beef) packed in tins, why not our own country made(desi) beef?

    No life without Sun

  • #599654
    Even the big companies like McDonald doesn't serve any product related to beef and pork in India as it is an issue related to religious sentiment and faith of Hindus and Muslims. Who are totally outsider to customs and culture of our nation but still they respect the faith of particular community and doesn't make any controversial food products to be sold.
    Is it so hard for our own country men to understand that religious sentiment?
    Or is it so difficult to resist the urge of eating beef ? that they are even ready to lose their life fighting for letting them to eat beef.
    In most of the northern states of India children are taught to respect cow and, she is considered as a god figure, and their are various aspect related to it. It is deeply connected to Hindu faith and spirituality and it is considered as sinful act to slaughter or eat beef, and as far as India is considered it is a secular nation and being a secular nation it is very wrongful to hurt sentiment of other community.
    Or this secularism doesn't protect sentiments of the majority community in our country and has become a term to lure various minority communities into vote bank politics.

    "It is hardest thing in the world to be good thinker without being a good self examiner"

  • #599657
    Very good, Ms. Joshi. If some people can ridicule the sentiment of majority people in open platform, they must be prepared for repurcussions. It is as simple as that.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599677
    There are hard core Hindus who hate non veg food and casual Hindus who prefer to include beef in their diet. The percentage of casual Hindus over number the hard core Hindus. Hence the issue should be dealt with properly. We Hindus should look at other communities and cause no damage to their food habits. Beef eating is not harmful to health. In any case, all vegetarian animals are good prey to the human beings. Of course, it should not be preferred in large organisations where we live together viz the defence forces.
    No life without Sun

  • #599680
    By the way when the government has got the mandate to take turf decisions then why the hue and cry. If other government comes to the power they can always reverse the decision and that is quite simple.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #599682
    Let me put my thoughts in a few lines of dramatization:

    Two ladies are sitting in a park eating ice creams. One gentleman is roaming in the park and finds the two women eating ice cream. Here is the conversation between them:

    Gentleman: Hello ladies.
    Ladies: Hello there!
    Gentleman: My beliefs don't consider eating of ice cream a good habit. It should be avoided at all costs.
    Ladies: Okay, so don't eat it then.
    Gentleman: You are not understanding. Since my beliefs don't allow me to eat ice cream, you too should not eat ice creams since it hurts my feelings.

    In name of religion, if we start to limit the rights of other people, it is going to lead nothing but unrest in the society. Some cultures don't allow to eat garlic and onion too, so should we ban that too?

    I agree with Neeraj that our civilization is quite advanced now to shun violence and avoid killing of animals if alternatives are available to satisfy our hunger but this is not something to be done forcefully. It should be voluntary.

  • #599683
    It should be a standard policy for all the governments to follow whether to eat beef or ban beef. It should be a national order, not different orders according to the whims and fancies of the party comes to power.

    No life without Sun

  • #599684
    If someone intentionally violates Constitution, there will be repurcussion and uncontrolled mob reaction doesn't pay heed to any logic. So, stop beef-festival. If anybody wants to have beef, he/she can very well take it at his/her residence or in such restaurants where it is available.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599686
    Well explained. In a secular country, nothing should be forced based on the religion or community. All should feel free to choose and eat what they like.

    I am an Hindu. I don't eat beef or prefer to eat beef. But I am not against the beef eaters.

    No life without Sun

  • #599689
    Was the constitution resting and sleeping till date to wake up at this part of time. Let the beef festival be there. Let the interested public attend the festival and eat beef for their joy. Others can rest and sleep at home. What is the problem? Why worry and envy the beef eaters?

    If we don't check this, I am sure, government will ban fish eating and tortoise eating too. They would say that Lord Vishnu took the avatar of Fish (Machavathar) and avatar of Tortoise (Urma avatar).

    No life without Sun

  • #599691
    Mr. Sun: The Constitution was not sleeping. The protectors and enforcing agencies of Constitution were feigning to be asleep.

    "Why worry and envy the beef eaters?"-You have made my day!

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599693

    "It is hardest thing in the world to be good thinker without being a good self examiner"

  • #599694
    The ice cream analogy was about belief that a person had and I really appriciate the analogy.
    But the beef eating in India and ice cream eating there is no connection these two are entirely different .
    Because slaughtring cow is considerd a sin in Hindu vedas and purana's and that's just not an issue based on belief but a heritage a tradition carried forward from generations, it is not a belief of just one person. It is tradition of sanatan dharma.
    And in this secular nation can you ask any relegion other than hinduism to totally forbade and forgot what's written in their holy book?
    No you can't do that because no one will accept that and it will become a issue of minority rights and secularism.

    But just one issue related to Hinduism is raised their is a big hipe all over the nation. A cow in north india is so deeply connected to faith and relegion that people even consider by products " go mutra" of cows as pavitra and holy.
    And you are comparing such faith and belief to a one person's opinion and are calling it a belief.

    "It is hardest thing in the world to be good thinker without being a good self examiner"

  • #599699
    A small interlude by me here. I apologise if it breaks the continuity of the discussion.

    Let me ask an innocent question. How many among us took some effort to read the order which was released recently which actually prompted this as well as the various debates and protests taking place in the country? Are we all influenced by the (wrong and biased or motivated and deliberate) publicity by media and the half truths spreading in certain social media posts?

    I have seen the Gazette notification part and also a prior notification calling for any objections to the draft rules (notified in January 16, 2017). I also heard a few knowledgeable and balanced people on both sides speaking and elaborating on it. Government has not brought in any new law. Only parliament can do that. There is already a law and due to certain compulsions of court orders the government had to make certain points in the said Act. The draft was published and objections sought about 4 months before. There was no arbitrariness.

    I quote the initial para in the latest Gazette notification which raised the present debates in the country. Please read and then continue debating.

    QUOTE:"G.S.R. 494(E).—Whereas the draft Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Regulation of Livestock Markets) Rules,2016 were published, as required under sub-section (1) of section 38 of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960(59 of 1960), vide the Ministry of Environment, Forest and Climate Change notification number G.S.R. 34(E), dated the
    16th January, 2017 in the Gazette of India, Extraordinary, Part-II, Section 3, Sub-section (i), dated the 16th January, 2017,inviting objections and suggestions from all persons likely to be affected thereby before the expiry of thirty days from thedate on which copies of the Gazette containing the said notification were made available to the public;
    And whereas the copies of the said Gazette were made available to the public on the 16th January, 2017;
    And whereas objections and suggestions received from the public have been considered by the Central Government;
    Now, therefore, in exercise of the powers conferred by sub-sections (1) and (2) of section 38 of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960 (59 of 1960), the Central Government hereby makes the following rules..." UNQUOTE

    Let this add some fact for further debate rather than debating with hearsay matters and half truths.

  • #599701
    "Sin" itself is a concept of belief that comes from religion. People of all religions have a tendency to feel as the most targeted group especially the majority. This is because they being the majority the power to run the nation lies with them and with power comes responsibilities to take care of the minorities. However, this protection has to be in a secular way.
    Secularism itself in blunt words means keeping religion away from the public sphere. That is why when Muslim women knock the door for justice against triple talaq, they have full rights as citizens of this country to be afforded protection no matter what is written in their religion books. So yes, we do ask minorities to not follow their religion texts blindly and give priority to constitution and logic. Let me give another example, in Koran, the killing of fellow human beings is suggested in certain circumstances (Quran 4:89) but do you see Indian Muslims doing such things except for a few rare bad apples now and then which are in all religions?

    Neelam, faith itself comprises of beliefs. With no belief, there is no faith. Religions develop over time based on beliefs of the people living in a community. Just for argument sake don't try to misguide the discussion.

  • #599712
    Mr. Ankit: Please don't quote the Quran. Other people can also quote different Surahs. Please stick to the topic. Read what Mr. Venkiteswaran has written and then discuss the specific points.
    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599715
    I am responding to another member where she has talked about minorities following their religion to the book and not to Venkiteswaran. Therefore, the response from me required some quotations to prove my point and other members are also free to do so. I think am sticking to the topic.

    Also, the discussion topic of this thread is not the specifically about the rules brought in by the Government. It is a generic discussion about beef ban.

  • #599747
    It is useless to discuss further. pl lock the thread.
    The greatest wealth in this world is mental peace and good health.

  • #599753
    This is a sensitive religious issue and different people will respond to it differently.

    India is a country of many religion and we can not hurt any of these if we want to live in harmony. Now as rightly said - one man's meat is another man's poison - there are certain things which will always create clash between the religions and cultures. So there will be many things which every religion will have to bear whatever and however unpleasant it may be.

    Beef is also one such matter. There is a large percentage of persons who consume beef on a regular basis. They require some source to get it. If not available they will get it from hidden suppliers as people are getting liquor and drugs from unknown and smuggling sources. We have to see the practical side also. No rule can be successful if people do not cooperate.

    Cow is a sacred animal for us but for some it is only a food. So how to make a compromise.

    Just imposing a rule - not to sell beef - is not going to help.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #599765
    NK Sharma,
    I do not understand why you are against this thread. If you are not interested and think it a baseless, useless and meaningless discussion, kindly keep yourself away from this thread and participate in your choice beneficial threads. You have no reason to request to lock this thread. Kindly refrain from such interference and concentrate on other posts.

    @ Sharma,
    What have you discussed in this thread to be fed up of discussion? Did you write a response? Did you write the word beef once?

    No life without Sun

  • #599769
    Not aware of the constitution or, government orders or bills or drafts etc, I have posted this thread for general discussion whether we should ban beef or continue with beef eating culture.

    Members are free to discuss without hurting the sentiment of any religion, major community or the minority community.

    No life without Sun

  • #599959
    Banning beef sales means our country will end up with more and more cattle; which means we'll need more pasture to take care of them. So, over a few years time, the cattle numbers will start growing fast and then we'll be faced with a few scenarios.

    One of them is that we'll be forced to pay carbon tax (or what other name it may be given). The global warming environmental agencies which are run by some elitist countries and people will put a growing tax upon us. It wouldn't be an issue before, but India is getting more and more in compliance with these tax creators and that s going to be a serious problem. There was talk about taxing China and India for the gas released into the atmosphere by their cattle and people. It died out quickly. But now, with India being supportive of global warming (fakery), we will be forced to pay out some taxes for keeping people and cattle in the country.

    Another scenario is that since we have a growing population as well as cattle numbers, there might come a time when there will be shortage of cattle grazing areas. Man, as we know already, keeps on clashing with forest areas and keep making human-animal conflicts, and always wins. According to the evolution theory, animals, especially cattle, can turn from being an herbivore can adapt itself to become man-eaters. It is easy for them because they are living with humans all over the country and not in reserved areas. So in due course, like maybe the next 50 years or 60 years, cattle will be having well-defined canine teeth and a drastically changed diet and hunger for human meals. Are we ready to face this reality? I am sure there will be some folks who would think this is impossible to happen. But anything is possible with evolutionary process. The water based fish figured it would do better to move on to land and started to grow limbs and closed off its gills and developed lungs. Why shouldn't something like that drastic lifestyle change happen with cattle? The time period I mentioned also goes along the often repeated fear mongering by the global warming people that the sea levels will rise 5 meters or whatever number in the next 50 years. It won't happen but it is good to move entire countries to fall into some other environment money making schemes.

    So I would definitely go for rationalizing the beef making process and have it follow clear guidelines, but not ban sale of beef.

    Its always been a stationary Flat Earth for @ 6000 years.

  • #599967
    I guess all people are educated enough here to not call Global Warming a false rumor. With the average temperature of the whole world increasing decade by decade I don't understand what more logic is required.
    Secondly, evolution happens over thousands of years (even longer sometimes) and not in 50 or even a thousand years.
    So let us add two more points of the signs of religious foolhardiness here - Flat Earth theory, Earth being a thousand years old, calling Global Warming fake and Creationism.

  • #599970
    Just came across a news item in a famous Tamil Daily that the sale of Beef was banned in TN way back in the year 1976 itself and at that time there was no protest to from party or organization why because there was no BJP. Now that BJP has initiated this ban, there is hallabol across the country.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #599981
    1. Caption of this thread is: "Should we ban beef sale in our country?"-My answer to this question is: No. Ban on beef or buff eating is not possible when a large number of people eat this in the country. At the same time, I would like to state that beef-eating has not been banned by the Government so far. If anyone desires to eat beef, he/she can purchase the meet and eat at the residence. Alternatively, beef/buff can be taken in restaurant where it is available.

    2. In this thread, the discussion later diverted to beef-eating festival. All of us know (although not all of us admit) that such festival is arranged to ridicule the religious belief of the majority community. When some act is committed to ridicule others, the perpetrators must be fully prepared to face the repurcussions of such act. These criminals must be severely thrashed. They must be beaten black and blue. They must be taught such a lesson that they don't dare to ridicule others belief in future.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599992
    When you yourself agree that most people eat beef in our country, why are you against a beef meat festival which is conducted like any other festival. The beef festival would suggest various means and methods of preparations of beef. The non beef eaters may avoid the festival and not cross the venue and not smell the beef dishes. Again I ask you "Man, why do you worry and envy the beef eaters?

    No life without Sun

  • #599996
    Mr. Sun: I have never said 'most' people eat beef. There is a difference between 'large number' and 'most'.

    Beef festival is to ridicule the belief of majority people. So the organisers of such festival must be given proper treatment. The job of giving proper treatment is for the law and order machinery of the Government. But when they fail to do their duty, people should give necessary treatment.

    Why should a beef-eater 'worry and envy the beef-eaters'?

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #599999
    To me large number and most are the same. Why should the organizers be punished when they have not harmed the non beef eater mentally or physically? Your last sentence proves that you are also a beef- eater from ISC for ISC to feel proud. GOOD.

    No life without Sun

  • #600109
    Democracy on the one hand but the country as a whole, ours is one where the heritage is involved much. We,present Indians, following western and eastern countries for many things but when there is the activities of Pure vegetarianism are increasing why do not we follow this? Only hunters and uneducated one were eating bull,camel etc., animal's beef but when educated without much civilization are fighting for beef is just ridiculous.

  • #600137
    When we all can cheat the cows denying its milk to its calf, and considering the milk as a God's gift to the human being, what is harm in considering the flesh of the cow as God's gift to the human being. We never spare the animal parts. Most Hindus worship the cow and use their products like the milk (a drink), horn( used for making comb) Skin (used for instruments and for the wear belt to our waist)) . Then why waste its flesh without any utility. Give a second thought to my justified thought.

    No life without Sun

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