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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Do you welcome the crackers ban imposed by court during Deepavali in Delhi ?

    In a far reaching decision, the Supreme court has ordered a total ban of sale crackers for the ensuing Deepavali as this ban is aimed at reducing already over polluted Delhi to mitigate the problem to some extent. Though some cracker traders have objected to this order, the general public has welcomed this decision. With this order, there is every chance of others states seeking such directions from the court to ban the crackers forever. But for Chetan Bhagat, Deepavali without crackers cannot be imagined - Is that so ?
  • #611271
    I welcome the ban because I have seen Delhi go down under a cover of smog. It is difficult to breathe that air. I have young nephews, who need nebulization, ever so frequently, because the air is toxic. Last night, I watched a panel of eight eminent doctors, who practice in leading hospitals, in Delhi; discuss how pollution is destroying the lungs of even non-smokers. These were all Hindu doctors, perhaps as sensitive to the issue as every other devout Hindu. But, they all supported the ban. One doctor stated that he can see the condition of lungs because he has the means to and that young children today have black lungs. Another said that the number of patients with respiratory problems goes up manifold during this period.

    No one knows the long-term impact of breathing in polluted air, but if we can control something, then why not.

    I had initiated a thread sometime last week, asking members if they would say no to crackers. I hadn't touched the pollution angle, but it is definitely a cause for concern. Anyway, the responses were disheartening.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #611272
    Yes certainly, Delhi residents would understand and welcome it if they are made aware of the risks. Delhi was ranked in the ten cities in the world with the worst air pollution in 2016 and it's slightly better in 2017. However the limits of particulate mater is around 10 times more than WHO standards.

    What prompted the ban ? Alarming air quality of Delhi even by Indian standards ( truth may be far more worse).
    Crackers apart from noise, worsens the air quality and winter makes it even worse.

    Apart from the exhaustive list of chemicals that people are forced to breathe in, the effects are also reflected by the increased number of patients going to hospitals or getting admitted for worsening of respiratory and chest diseases.

  • #611275
    #611271: sorry missed or overlooked your thread as it was not reflected in the forum posts from everyone.
    You were spot on. I think if we combined both threads or repost yours with the court ban, I'm sure we'll have more responses.

  • #611277
    1. No, I don't welcome the ban imposed by a three-judge bench of the Supreme Court headed by Justice A.K. Sikri.

    2. So far as pollution in Delhi is concerned, The Supreme Court should have tried to control those factors which are causing air pollution in Delhi throughout the year, instead of the factor which causes pollution on a single day.

    3. I don't think the people of Delhi would implement this ban.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611278
    I support the ban due to the facts brought out in the above responses. We need to open our eyes to the harmful effects of such practices and need to support the same. Bursting of crackers and other fireworks may have been okay till, may be, a few years back but with very less space for fresh air now, the smoke that is emanated from these crackers remain in the air for long and causes much harm to the people.

    Regarding Chetan Bhagat's response, I would just like to say that he is trying to be politically correct keeping in line with the present socio-political atmosphere in the Country; his words are no longer taken seriously as it used to be earlier.

    Mr Partha, it is a different question whether the people would follow the order strictly or not, but it will certainly have some effect. And let us not forget the fact the Judiciary had always voiced its concern over the growing pollution in the Capital but the action has to be taken by the administrative authorities. I am reminded of the odd-even number policy that was tried to be effected by Sri Arvind Kejriwal; did it materialize? We, the people, are habituated to make complaints and do not bother to comply with orders that may redress our complaints.

    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #611280
    It is good that Supreme Court thought about pollution at least. Cigarette smoking in public places is prohibited. Is it stopped? When I was in Delhi for a day last month observed people having their smoke very happily by standing in the bus station near the airport. Similarly here also people may not completely stop consuming crackers on that Deepavali. Is this ban on selling or consuming? Similarly is this ban only for Deepavali? They can sell after Deepavali for other functions and occasions. There should be a clarity in this. The post is not having that clarity. If it is only for Deepavali, it is not correct. It should be always and for everybody.
    There are many other issues which are causing such a serious damage to the environment in Delhi. Why is the court not addressing those issues? What is the root cause and are we eliminating the problem from roots? With Deepavali crackers, the pollution may go from 90% to 92%. But not from 0% to 92%. What are the actions court is taking to bring down the level from 90% to allowable limits? This will not be addressed by anyone.
    Anyhow if we feel it is a good beginning for pollution control, let us go ahead and save our money which is being used for crackers.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #611281
    It is a welcome move and I do hope that in the coming years more such actions are taken to bring down the pollution level.

    Odd, even rule was also a very creative move, had it been continued it would have definitely had an impact in the long run.

  • #611282
    I really appreciate that the court, at last, has brought such order. Most of us don't take an individual decision like Deepavali is a festival of light and diyas but people spend so much money on crackers than on diyas. If such order is brought by the government then they will realize. On our own, we never realize that it pollutes's the environment and lot of health issues and even very dangerous to kids if precaution is not taken. I am very happy about the supreme court order. In fact, such dangerous products should not be sold only.

  • #611284
    It is a welcome decision by the court. But we need to see how the people of Delhi will take it. Deepavali won't be Diwali without any cracker sound. Even the lighters eminate much smoke that is harmful to us. We will know the after effects of this order only after Deepavali.
    No life without Sun

  • #611286
    I have already allocated money (from my meagre resources) to purchase crackers on Diwali. Although I personally don't like the sound of crackers and prefer lighting, I would purchase crackers like many other Delhi-ites. After all, Diwali comes only once in a year.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611300
    In 1667, Aurangzheb issued a 'firman' banning fire-crackers from his kingdom. The 'firman' can be seen at Bikaner museum. Exactly 350 years later, on the eve of Diwali, another 'firman' has been issued.

    In 1667, people did protest and paid with their lives. In 2017, some people welcome the 'firman'.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611313
    Ban on crackers may be headlines for 1 or 2 days, but that won't be solution for pollution. Why don't the same judges ask people to use public transport and ban on personal vehicles?
    Thanks,
    Suresh.

  • #611478
    First Dahi Handi, then Jallikattu and now Diwali.

    Let's not question it. Let's not speak against it. Let's not raise an eyebrow. Let us keep our eyes closed and head hanging downwards. Let's not utter a single word of protest. Let's remain silent. They can ban the sound of our voice, but can they ban silence?

    They can ban lights. But can they ban the darkness of our mind caused by these orders?

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611506
    Yes, as it is an order from the Supreme Court. But personally I feel there is no enjoyment without bursting crackers during Diwali.
    Regards
    Chitra
    "Do not give up, things might not favour you always"

  • #611531
    I just read an interview of Harpriya Padmanabhan, who represented the people (her son included), seeking the ban. According to her, "Firecrackers came into the country in the 1920s when the Nadar brothers had set up the industry in Sivakasi. Till then you never had any firecrackers being burst on Diwali. It's a very recent, 20th century phenomenon in our country." (sic).

    That being said, it's heartening to see school children coming out in support of this cause.

    I think all those opposing the ban lack sensitivity. Would their reactions be the same if they were to rush their loved ones to the emergency room?

    I once suffered an anaphylactic shock on Diwali night. The trigger was something I ate, but those few minutes till I reached the emergency room were the most frightful. Pulling out the car from the garage was a problem because the courtyard was filled with people lighting crackers, who couldn't be bothered, with a car backing up. The drive to a nearby hospital was another ordeal because the narrow streets were filled with people, bursting crackers, who became agitated with my husband's persistent blowing of the horn. Fortunately, the hospital (Hindu Mission Hospital) was open and I was administered a life-saving drug before I was taken to the Military Hospital, where I was kept in the ICU.

    Let me add here that I have burst crackers on Diwali, played Holi, sat through Shabad kirtan, had my feet washed and collected the red chuniris on kanjak puja, attended haldi-kumkum ceremonies and more.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #611533
    "I just read an interview of Harpriya Padmanabhan, who represented the people (her son included), seeking the ban. According to her, "Firecrackers came into the country in the 1920s when the Nadar brothers had set up the industry in Sivakasi. Till then you never had any firecrackers being burst on Diwali. It's a very recent, 20th century phenomenon in our country."

    No offence meant to Ms. Harpriya Padmanabhan, but her statement proves her 'liberal ignorance'. There is a book named Hutom Pyachar Naksha' written by Kaliprasanna Singha in Bengali. This book described Calcutta of 18th century. It has been written that firecrackers were very much used during festivals. In fact Europeans came to visit the Pujas or marriages of Bengali landlords to enjoy the show of firecrackers.

    There are many historical evidences of use of firecrackers during medieval period. The firman of Aurangzhib banning the firecrackers (kept at Bikaner Museum) is one such evidence.

    The interviewer could have asked the lady to spare some time to read reliable historical books instead giving the interview.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611538
    "The interviewer could have asked the lady to spare some time to read reliable historical books instead giving the interview."

    I wonder why no one contradicted the lady in question because she most certainly would have brought the same up during the arguments she presented. Perhaps, it was them who should have read up on history.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing the piece of history about Aurangzeb banning crackers. It made me check the net, and I had a good laugh, reading the twitter comments that popped up.

    In fact, my apartment association used to organise a fireworks display on Diwali, but it was stopped a few years ago, keeping in mind the air and noise pollution we were contributing to. This year, one of the residents (from the majority community) has asked for a ban on crackers, within the complex. People are, thankfully, awakening to the real problem, instead of being stuck with petty politics and making this a communal or a 'majority community' issue. Remember, toxic pollutants aren't selective; they affect everyone's lungs and health.

    Are fireworks and firecrackers the same thing! I have seen firework displays, but a display of firecrackers, never witnessed one, in all these years, and I have attended many Diwali melas and Pujas. People flock to see the dazzling fireworks.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #611540
    No, fireworks and firecrackers are not the same thing, but both exist now and existed in the past also.

    Many people can laugh but fortunately/unfortunately that can't destroy the evidence.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611550
    Some people want a ban, some don't want a ban. Some feel what about pollution from the vehicles, industries etc.
    So we do agree that firecrackers do cause pollution. We are also aware of a rise in chest infections and asthma attacks.

    So why not a. support the ban and say we will say no to crackers if the government tackles the other major polluters, b. if we still strongly believe that we should burst crackers, honestly agree to reduce the amount we are going to burst ( Eg: if each one agrees to give up say 50% of what they burst last year, then we would have much less pollution)

  • #611647
    What evidence Partha? I can't just take your word for it, for that would be outright foolish on my part. Even Aurangzeb's 'farman' that you quoted, speaks of 'atishbazi' which means fireworks.

    Natrajan,

    "So we do agree that firecrackers do cause pollution....chest infections and asthma attacks."

    I appreciate this coming from someone in the healthcare industry. What I do not understand is the caveat that you propose, when you say "…if the government tackles major polluters". Do you suggest that people gamble with their health and do their bit only "if" the government does its share? In my opinion, the people of Delhi should take the initiative and do their bit. It is after all their lives and their city.

    Reducing the amount – would that mean that the life of my lungs would be prolonged because everyone burst 50% fewer crackers? I still see that as a reason to worry. It's akin to slow poisoning.

    I think everyone should act responsibly. People need to be sensitised because even if they don't have visible signs of lung damage, their lungs are being affected. People who live in sheltered homes create the mess and step indoors, into safe environments. Imagine the poor, who have to inhale the pollutants from the '1000 ki ladi' that some rich bloke sets on fire.

    And yes the Government must take measures, such as the 'odd-even' policy that was introduced. It helped, even though the sceptics laughed. People are suffering and I hope that everyone begins looking at it from that perspective. It has to be a collective effort, the purpose fails when we begin giving a communal angle to everything. It is only when people come together; lend their support, that things can be achieved. But, we have to stop being petty, I think it is the intelligent and adult thing to do. We stopped 'sati', we allowed widow-marriage, we are going after child-marriage. So, we can do it.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #611649
    #611647 Both reflect a practical approach to an Indian problem.

    "…if the government tackles major .... This is a reflection of some people in India. I call this the 'Indian mentality' if I have to change, let the others also change, if I'm a culprit and I'm paying for it, why let the other's go scot free, while bargaining for a price (Eg: customers says 80 rupees and the seller says 100 rupees), the seller often says, sir- you come up by 10 rupees, I'll come down by 10 rupees, both are happy.In this scenario - if the Government or people, vice-versa state that we will change provided you change, both benefits.

    would that mean that the life of my lungs would be prolonged because everyone burst 50% fewer crackers?
    This is again like different shades of grey between black and white. Change doesn't come easy. In the very ISC website, some want crackers, some do not want crackers.So both are at 'loggerheads'. So if the cracker friendly person says I'm ready to give up 50% I'll be happy because at least we have reduced the problem.

    full cooperation is ideal from all sides but my views mean that at least we can start.

  • #611657
    I am quite amused by the stand taken by Partha (though not unusual and is as expected). I agree and respect your stand as a staunch Hindu, but why do you close your eyes and ears to real facts? That is something discouraging and let me tell you, blind faith doesn't lead you anywhere. You need to be fair, please.

    I am unable to understand your requirement of hitting at the 'Mussalman' each and every time, irrespective of the topic being discussed.

    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #611667
    Amusement can't hide the logic. I reiterate that the Supreme Court should have tried to control those factors which are causing air pollution in Delhi throughout the year, instead of the factor which causes pollution on a single day. And why only Delhi, the Supreme Court should have given direction to every State Government to control polluting factors all over India, especially in big cities.

    Because of this amusement, the so-called intellectuals are now ridiculed everywhere. Nobody bothers to listen to them anymore.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611706
    I welcome the ban on crackers. They create sound pollution and air pollution. The majority of the children in metro cities are suffering from breathing-related problems. Let us not add to their problems.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #611708
    Now taking cue from this ban, many states are approaching the courts to issue same type of ban order to save their state from possible high pollution on Deepavali day.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #611751
    I completely welcome the ban of Crackers on Deepavali and the ban should be extended in South India too. Supreme court had given one of the best judgment i.e. to impose the ban on crackers.
    A blunt knife or rusted knife can't be useful for anything just for the sake we call it as the knife similar to PayTM series or Sachin or Virat records.

  • #611755
    I completely disagree with the decisions of Supreme court. If we look at some of the judgement made by the Supreme court then we find that Mi Lord never misses a chance to put some restrictions on Hindus festivals.
    You can not control the pollution just in a single day. If someone will tell you that he is going to lose his body fat and reduce his weight or control it by fasting for one day, what will be your reaction? The decision made by the Supreme court over cracker ban is very similar to this example.

  • #611756
    Excellent comparison, Mr. Gaurav! You are bang on target. I have already stated so, but many Members haven't bothered to reply this point. I hope they would notice what you have stated.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611757
    Last year after Diwali Delhi
    had air pollution levels 14-16 times higher than safe limits, many schools were shut down
    visibility in many areas reduced to 200 meters.
    The cracker related smoke haze lasted for a week, the smog did not disperse due to the cold air
    Many people with chronic respiratory illnesses took few weeks-few months to recover.
    Last year after Diwali, Chanakyapuri (better area) had a PM 2.5 value of 999!! ( Delhi's safe limit was PM2.5 value of 60!)

    These are facts that are sad to read, worse for the people actually living in Delhi.
    While it's easy to say that one day ban is not going to do much of a change or harm, it's important for Delhi as it cannot take any more air pollution around Diwali.

  • #611764
    Just read this news this morning. I have been to this place, hence I thought I'll post this

    In Erode district, there is a small bird sanctuary (Vellode) wherein migratory birds are nesting.This year the surrounding 10 villages have again decided not to burst any crackers during Diwali for the sake of the nesting birds and their chicks. This is their practice for many years. May not make much of a difference as the busy towns continue bursting crackers but the villagers are doing their little to help the birds.

    There are atleast two more villages in Tamilnadu who for many years, for the sake of birds do not burst crackers during Diwali.

  • #611768
    The example stated by #61175514 is not apt here, I would say the scenario is like this, it's like a poison which is affecting many human lives. One day of bursting crackers in the streets of Delhi and not just Delhi everywhere is more than enough to send people to the hospital.

    As stated by Mr. Natarajan, the aftermaths of bursting cracking prolonged for many days, it was not a one-day affair. How can we be insensitive to the people and kids around? It is totally a welcome move by the supreme court. Pollution cannot be controlled in a day, but the amount of pollution generated in a single surpasses everything and causes so much harm so if steps can be taken to curb that why not go ahead with it.

  • #611770
    Some members are arguing with the fact that last year pollution content had increased dramatically post Dipawali so this is a welcome move by the supreme court.
    Suppose on last Deepawali Milord ate too much that caused him stomach pain or food poisoning so does it mean that he will keep fasting this year because he had horrible experience last time. It's ridiculous that the same Milord is just focusing on a single day instead of looking for some permanent solution.

  • #611772
    You got it #611770, wouldn't he avoid whatever caused him food poisoning or would he again indulge in it which will again cause him harm?

    A permanent solution would take time, instead of taking mountain steps, baby steps can be initiated and gradually bigger steps can be taken which will be more effective.

  • #611773
    Yesterday I read a report which stated that burning husks at this time by the farmers of Haryana and Punjab is more responsible for pollution in Delhi. Hon'ble Supreme Court has not given any direction to stop burning husks in Punjab and Haryana.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611778
    Well spotted Mr.Partha.
    The burning of paddy apparently contributes to 35% of Delhi's seasonal air pollution.Rules are in place, as usual not followed.

    1.NGT(National Green Tribunal) for the last 4 years has imposed ban over the burning of the waste of the paddy fields in Delhi and Haryana.

    2. Accepting that stubble burning is a major cause of pollution for the NCR, officials in Haryana said they have started to enforce the order against the practice. Karmchand, the Deputy Director (Agriculture) of Kurukshetra told The Pioneer, "In the rabi season of 2017, we penalised 54 farmers and the total penalty generated was Rs 1,45,000; in the kharif season of 2016, 207 farmers were penalised and we collected Rs 4,58,000 in fines."

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/todays-newspaper/delhi-chokes-haryanas-burning-fields-smoke.html


    3. September 2017 -HC asks Delhi, neighbouring states to implement ban on burning of crop residue
    Delhi high court directs Punjab, Haryana, UP, Rajasthan and Delhi to implement directions issued under the Air Pollution Act to ban burning of crop residues.
    http://www.livemint.com/Politics/FGkI9zIWeP55HmKtSn37lO/HC-asks-Delhi-neighbouring-states-to-implement-ban-on-burni.html

    I think people are aware but the issues are complex and interlinked with politics, fear of hurting sentiments of people ( farmers and cracker lovers), financial resources needed to provide alternatives to the major pollutants ( for instance the burning of crop stubble is far more cheaper than trying to remove them manually).

    Finally it up to us to think and act in the larger interests of people and see what is practically possible.

  • #611782
    #611712 If someone face food poisoning he will leave eating for good or will not eat the dish that caused him suffer?

    I would have welcomed if Milord had banned some particular kind of crackers that add more to the pollution but here Milord is going for complete fasting !

  • #611785
    Which particular crackers do you suggest? All crackers are equally responsible and contributing to the pollution to a very extreme level. I don't think you can compare it to complete fasting, here its been avoided, precautions are been taken to reduce the harmful effect. Stop breathing for few seconds you will realize the pain of people who are suffering from breathing problems and asthma. They feel suffocated for not one day, it prolongs for days if not weeks.

    That is the effect diwali crackers brings upon them.

  • #611787
    It is definitely a welcome move by the court though it is considerably delayed.

    Unfortunately these are the decisions which Govt should have taken earlier rather than waiting for the court.

    Unfortunately due to political reasons no Govt takes certain decisions which ultimately go to jurisdiction of courts. This has become a practice now and issues are going to courts unnecessarily.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #611815
    Having got such a wonderful response to thread, the editors may consider this thread as a GD and proceed.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #611824
    K Mohan,

    For a thread to be an active GD, it should be selected as one early on so that members who respond do so as per the format of a GD. We cannot convert this thread now to an active GD. However, as stated earlier, we do a round of threads regularly and the quality threads & responses therein will also get cc later.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #611826
    In a Drinking milk or Drinking water if we add one drop of poison will make the whole thing as a poison. So One day or Half day is not a criterion whether it is polluting or not is the only criteria.
    A blunt knife or rusted knife can't be useful for anything just for the sake we call it as the knife similar to PayTM series or Sachin or Virat records.

  • #611854
    There are many other factors which contribute to pollution why the supreme court does not take action against them. Even the people who are considering it a welcome move from the 'Milord' would be using refrigerators, AC's, Polybags, using own means of transport instead of public transport for the sake of comfort or using them for short distances like visiting the nearby markets.
    That Milord who sits in the AC room and travels in the AC car is giving sermon on pollution content and its causes even he is contributing to the cause on daily basis. How can people be of so much double standard? I think I must initiate a new thread on this double standard and biased behaviour of 'Milord'.

  • #611866
    Completely banning the crackers is not the right approach I think. Because if it should have happened, at least those cracker traders should have been informed a month in prior, or this news should have given a warning signal first to them. So, that people could understand it and also the people who make their business out of it. But I think, those who love to play with crackers, nobody can stop them.

    But this is a right decision for Delhi, because the state of Delhi is in very bad condition. Pollution is over the top, crossing all the limits. And as Juana mam has pointed out, just the next day of Diwali, is a complete cloud of smoke can be seen throughout. It is a complete Smog layer in the atmosphere, that is very harmful for everyone. You cannot even see the sky properly it is so much of smoke. People are so much interested in playing crackers that they burn out big boxes at one go. They spend hell lot of money on the crackers. At least this ban could stop them from getting those big boxes to some extent. It is definitely needed for Delhi.

    Do what inspires you !!

  • #611954
    It is quite disturbing a fact that intolerance has crept to such a level that we have started questioning the highest judicial body. Let us not forget that it is the Judiciary that has and always been safeguarding our Constitutional values.

    Gaurav at #611782, what a comparison! And your attempt to tease a judicial authority(supported by Partha in the next response) is not acceptable. Let me tell you and you need to understand that the ban is not against any religious beliefs. Why do you and the nationalists bring in religion to each issue. Go ahead and enjoy fireworks and crackers.

    I feel so sorry that we have gone down to such a level without understanding the law and the nation; and do we actually know and realize how a Court (the Judge) function? I am not concerned or worried because disrespect has been shown to the highest judicial body but the reason for having arrived at such a conclusion is indeed unacceptable.

    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #611957
    "Gaurav at #611782, what a comparison! And your attempt to tease a judicial authority(supported by Partha in the next response) is not acceptable. Let me tell you and you need to understand that the ban is not against any religious beliefs. Why do you and the nationalists bring in religion to each issue."

    If the ban is not against any religious beliefs, then why no ban on firecrackers during marriages?

    I feel that within very few years, we have to seek permission to celebrate Holi or Diwali, just like the hapless minorities do in Pakistan.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #611965
    Why not file a PIL about the Judiciary giving judgements against Hindutva beliefs instead of writing disrespectfully here in this forum? Making accusations against Judiciary is pitiable. I am unable to understand where this country is going?
    "Nationalism is the worst enemy of peace", as observed by George Orwell. The nationalists of the country are beyond any reasoning.
    The Government is also not taking action against such pseudo nationalists. Unless such disturbing trends are not curbed in the bud, we are in for disturbed conditions in our country. It is the duty of every law-abiding citizen to condemn such activities.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #611966
    Absolutely Partha sir, we will have to seek permission as people had to during durga puja in Bengal. Not only for celebrating festivals, may be we will have to seek permission even for breathing in Delhi in upcoming years for the reason that Hidus are in majority and they inhale larger part of the pure oxygen.

  • #611967
    #611954 Ganesh sir, we should not forget that even the Supreme court judges are human beings and they have their own thoughts and approach toward any subject and matter. And when they will behave in strange way then why we can not raise question on their behaviour.
    The same 'Milord' feels inhuman practice and cruelty against animals in case of Shaktiman case but he fail to see any inhumane practice when Congress leaders openly killed a calf on the road before media. If 'Milord' will behave in such a biased way then I don't think anyone need to be surprised if we raise question against them.
    'Milord' has enough time for the hearings of Rohingya terrorists and Babri Masjid case but he closed the Kashmiri Pandit case by saying that its too old. Isn't it a double standard on the part of Judiciary?

  • #612026
    Gaurav at #611967, agreed that the Judges too are human beings and they are indeed susceptible to normal emotions but, let me tell you, they are never guided by such emotions. Do you know that Judges are supposed (as per procedure) to decide matters based on the evidence before them and nothing else? They have to follow the law and the evidence/ facts before them. I think we need to understand facts before making comments on a judicial order. If the Supreme Court order banning crackers is against the law and against the interests of our nation, I think our government at the center should have proceeded further. Partha has a point about judicial activism and he is right. When an elected government in a democratic set up fail (or fear) to carry out their Constitutional responsibilities, Judiciary will intervene and we need to accept that fact, irrespective of religious or political affiliations.
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #612031
    I agree with #611277 and others who do not support the ban. Why the crackers ban is on Deepawali only ? Why not on 25 th December, New year and cricket winning celebration?
    It should be ban through out the year. Banning on Deepawali is only to dishonour Hindu religion only. Vehicular pollution contribute 20%, why there in no ban on the sell of new vehicles. Construction work is going on more than 2000 projects in Delhi NCR. Why the court is not banning new projects permissions and make harder norms for ongoing projects.

    The greatest wealth in this world is mental peace and good health.

  • #612032
    NK Sharma, grievance accepted. Why don't you move the Court as suggested by KVRR at #611965?
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #612035
    I'm surprised that this thread is still continuing to debate on a religious angle to crackers. Yes there are many evils and many ways in which pollution comes every day. Everyone knows that smoke and smog has been hazardous but we are not ready to accept the ban because other pollutants are still on going.

    The right way forward would be, Yes accept the ban, Yes also don't accept with other pollutants, please file a PIL constructively to help in reducing air pollution ( burning of fields, construction etc) . I'm sure many people of Delhi would thank you.

  • #612038
    Mr. Natarajan: The thread is still being discussed because of a simple reason which some fail to understand. The reason is: People are very angry.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #612045
    I do understand the sarcasm, but can Mr Partha please explain? I don't think it is being innocent as you always claim. It is, to make myself clear, very shrewd a statement. See, it is not a question of why people need to be angry and why should our judiciary intervene, albeit based on a PIL, if it was not for a reason. Why do people think that the order is against Hinduism? I am quite surprised at the way we have started thinking. We have responses above where we are questioning the Judiciary's inaction in other instances of pollution. Are we blind and deaf? Judiciary has always made it a point to create a pollution-free environment; but, are we listening? And why is the Swachh-Bharat team silent? If not with others, let us be true to ourselves at-least! We have suddenly started being vociferous about the festivals of other religions. Why?
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance'- Confucius

  • #612051
    Why have the seculars & liberals lost relevance in today's India? They themselves are responsible. They have lost touch with common people. When they see that people are no longer bothered about their valuable(!) opinion, they start fretting and fuming. They term genuine emotion of common people (in this case anger) as 'shrewd'.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #612054
    Hi Saji Ganesh,
    I recommend you to buy one 'communal lens' and see the warped versions here!

    If you stop to think........ remember to start again!

  • #612057
    People basically like fun and once that element is out of an event the event becomes boring. This is human psychology and due to this reason banning crackers is a half-hearted attempt as people are going to use it clandestinely and by the time police or other vigilant forces reach the scene the fun makers will disappear and some poor fellows just by standing will be caught to complete the police registers.

    Anyway for these things very strict surveillance and governance is required. We have seen how in China a communist country people are moving on roads with face masks on. So just by a court verdict and government order these things are not going to be removed.
    In extreme cases people will go to UP or Haryana to enjoy crackers. Even educated people are not going to listen what to talk of the common uneducated masses.

    Thoughts exchanged is knowledge gained.

  • #612069
    I want to submit my response in this wonderful discussion even so may be at end of debate.

    Supreme court ban needs to be understood a little bit also from angles other than Pollution, Religion. Let us take court Room. Lawyers from few parties present their cases before Supreme court Judges who are well versed and eminent in Law and Common sense. Now the Judges may not be even remotely connected to the issue. All they have to do is hear the arguments from the relevant parties and come to a conclusion. So here the issue is decided by Material facts submitted by Lawyers, Merit of their Arguments , Legal position, Philosophical Discussions and Judgement of the Judges.

    Now in the above process it involves Case filing, Merits on face, Notice to relevant parties, Arguments, Counter Arguments and finally Decision of the Judges.
    In case of PIL (As Cracker ban case) even the parties may not be related to the issue but just a citizen of the country. So the entire Arguments depends on the material facts. Now what these material facts contain? Research data, analysis, reports from some Government and Some Organizations of repute. This becomes the problem. In India how do we do research. How do we view the data in front of us. From where do we get the Issue of "Permitted levels of Some pollutant". All these are from the methods given to us by countries of West. Now do we have the same Environment as in west? No. Do humans here have same susceptibility to climate change and other Environmental factors? No. When answer to most of the conditions are not suitable to Indian conditions. But we take reports of organizations like WHO whose methodology still extensively depends on western methods.

    How can we prove in these Research methods that we are not harming bulls by Jallikatuu but actually preserving them.

    The above issue is very much relevant in present case. I am not disputing the fact Air pollution in Delhi is worst and is causing several hardships. There is no disputing the fact that Diwali Celebrations are in fact causing pollution. But the way Supreme court is arriving at a decision is heavily influenced by foreign research methods.
    Judges also undergo the same hardship that every common man in Delhi undergoes. So finally the Judge will come to a conclusion as such the material facts are leading him to. There is no communal angle to this.

    A partial solution to the problem could be the Central Government investing heavily in Indian way of assessing the situation by Government agencies. In fact Government can establish a community based on it such that it is profitable too.
    Let us take the issue at hand. Delhi is located next to Gurgoan Industrial belt, Lot of Agricultural activity in and around Haryana, UP. We cannot control Agricultural activity and Industry as it is food for many. Delhi being having many Service oriented establishments cannot be without transport. A heavily crowded and densely populated region. But Diwali celebrations is a relatively easy target to control.

    We must also understand Judiciary has done several things before it.
    1. Regulations over old diesel transport Vehicles by NGT.
    2. Regulations over burning of husks.
    3. Regulations over Tranport but Delhi HC.
    4. Regulations over Highway vehicles entering Delhi.
    and so on.
    The ban on crackers is a continuation of above steps.

    There is no communal angle to this. Even as far Judges are concerned when going through past cases of the Judges have shown no communal angle. They have been impartial to the extreme end. Sometimes even against the wish of entire people to up hold Justice.
    And people must also know Justice may sometimes be against the wish of entire population. Being Just may sometimes be harsh. Article 21 is always is night mare to Government. Justice Chandrachaud for eg said. Article 21 is soul. When Article 21 is violated SC may find itself against everything else. And clean Environment is very much part of Article 21.

  • #612169
    Curious to know the effect of ban in Delhi.
    1. How effecrively was the ban followed?
    2. Is there any data in pollution levels during Diwali and Comparision to previous, permissible and average standards
    3. How people from Delhi viewed it?

  • #612227
    #612169
    Only today it has to be seen as only 19th is Diwali for north India. I hope till Chote Diwali, Delhi was very silent.

    Nice to be in ISC and feel the difference.

  • #612243
    #612169: to your query no:2 - there is plenty of evidence to say that around Diwali time the air quality worsens in and around Delhi, you can get the data from the internet.

  • #612247
    With the advancement of Diwali night, the firecrackers are being burst in increasing number. Delhi is showing its glamour and grandeur on this auspicious night.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #612249
    Just now a loud burst of serial crackers in front of my residence. Delhi has accepted the challenge and is going to win. Shabbaash Delhi!
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #612257
    #612069

    A good write up on the knowledge of court set up and as told by you the evidence shown now played a card in this ban and whenever we say about this, people think that we are not concerned with human and environment and it is not so because the ban is only for very little period and only to one city Delhi. The Internet may give any kind of data but people who are witnessing will be more correct than this. As far as Delhi is concerned, the pollution created by vehicles are really more daily compared to the crackers during Diwali and if the ban is welcomed then it should be implemented throughout the country not only to one city and even within the 50 km apart other parts are cracking anyway.

    Nice to be in ISC and feel the difference.

  • #612278
    We will be closing this discussion tonight and crediting cc to some of the responses soon. Thanks, ISCians, for the great participation!
    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #612288
    And to add to the point we must also discuss the peculiar environment that creates in Delhi during Deepavali time. It is time usually begining the NE monsoon retreats from Delhi, Bihar to Bay of Bengal. This creates the situation for onset of Western disturbances. A cold wind system from Mediterranean as an extent of Rossby waves. This creates ample scope for smog fomation. This is one of the main reason why Delhi has more pollution than other cities of India. And that too it happens only at this period of weather system.
    This is the reason for ban at this month.
    Let us discuss the facts.
    1. Delhi has a peculiar combimination of being close to all three sectors of Indian economy namely Agriculture, Industrt and Services.
    2. A peculiar weather system.
    3. Being NCR it houses diplomats of all nations.
    So the ban needs to be understood from the above factors. It is not against any relegion. This is the reason for ban during this month. Please do not add communal angle with views like why not during Ramzan or Christmas, Why only Delhi in this debate.

  • #612289
    I was reluctant to enter in this discussion first. The reason is that in thesetype of topics there is every chance to succumb to individual emotions and attachments and fail to look things impartially. That will defeat the purpose of a fair discussion.

    However having read the post by Gokul Aravindh #612069, I am impressed and felt that it was very much matter-of-fact and balanced opinion. I appreciate the member for that.

    The ban of crackers during Diwali had two dimensions:
    1. As a mere court judgement on a matter placed before it
    2. The impact of the judgement killing by just one stroke by almost throttling of the festivity mood on a festival celebrated all over the country by a vast section of the population.

    As for point 1. Gokul Aravindh has wonderfully explained and courts have done what they can do in a case placed before it. Unfortunately those who should have fought against the ban (I feel) had not contested the case in the way it should have been.

    It is here that I want to reiterate Gokul's point : "..entire Arguments depends on the material facts. Now what these material facts contain? Research data, analysis, reports from some Government and Some Organizations of repute. This becomes the problem. In India how do we do research. How do we view the data in front of us. From where do we get the Issue of "Permitted levels of Some pollutant". All these are from the methods given to us by countries of West. ". As long as we do not have our own research and reports, we have to be the dependent on the borrowed and donated materials. Naturally they wil have visible and invisible strings attached which can bind us into difficult knots. We have to learn a lot from this and be alert and vigilant. So let us not blame the courts in this matter or any similar matter.

    Now coming to point 2.
    yes, personally I am also very much unhappy in the devolution of many events happening nowadays. I request you to read the just previous para once more especially the last two or three sentences . Many things material and non-material are imported into or sent to our country by vested interest who want to see the unity in this country destroyed. Such interests will use all opportunities available in front of them. Of all these the route of courts is most suited to them because that may then give an appearance of legitimacy to the whole thing and the unsuspecting majority of people will take it as such as true and correct.

    That is what happened in this case and in many similar matters. It is like a slow spreading cancer. Destroying one by one,very slowly all those characteristics and symbols which were unique to this country, under the veil of something different.

    It is here our people have to be really vigilant. The real people behind all such cases and litigation will have some other agenda, and not just the interest of the people or this nation. We can understand the real target and impact of this current ban only by doing a small research of so many small and big cases and rulings, (which may seem innocuous and rational on first glance,) on cases even in local courts, district courts, state high courts upto Supreme court, more or less in similar matters and impact.

    Every year during Diwali season exact stereotype of questioning on use of crackers crop up. Even in ISC forum such threads have come. The present thread author is also one who initiates such a thread. Stereo typically I used to contest asking why only Diwali is targeted when crackers are used for many other occasions and events also. Pollution in this country is not caused by the three day use of Diwali crackers. It is the automobile pollution that is all pervading. But that will not be accepted by those who 'supply' research results. On the contrary the automobile manufacturers from other countries have ensures that even bank credit comes lowest in vehicle purchase. Our government has meekly succumbed to those diktats.

    If private vehicle purchase and use could be regulated, then that will serve many great purposes - of reducing pollution, reducing congestion, reducing road maintenance cost and of course the fuel price increase and the country's import bill too. This will be opposed by the multinationals who have the automobile and oil business. That is why they deflect the blame from them and shift global warming also to cow-dung and cow's foul gas.

    Let us try to se the hidden agenda in getting curtailed all the cultural and traditional bahts of this great country. Our own intelligentsia talk a lot about food wastage. But they are silent on the Tomato festival elsewhere. This country's major section of intelligentsia is to be suspected as on the payrolls of some vested interests.They take up only certain issues when there are far more serious issues in our front.

    So the matter of crackers ban for Diwali cannot be looked in isolation. Many more isolated issues and court orders , when taken as a cluster will show us some real meaning. It is nighttime our patriotic intelligentsia takes note of these(if not done already) and take remedial measures. The other matter is about the patent issues on many traditional medicines, food items, games and sports etc. I am happy that some attention is already on this matter by some well concerned people.

  • #612302
    It is a pattern we see when vested interests target to accomplish something.First they go on promoting that by planting articles in support of them. Initially such articles and reports are paid and planted. Then they promote channel discussion and newspaper edits and supplements. Nowadays the social media is used quite effectively for this, Then cases are filed in courts highlighting certain matters separating and isolating them many other related matters.Many people just fall victims due to their naivety and innocence. Innocent, straight thinking, well meaning youngsters give support and publicity to such debates and articles in social media without knowing the hidden agenda of the originators. Slowly public opinion gets influenced and the agenda gets accomplished.

    Many ISC members also with good intention from their side have posted threads against Diwali crackers in previous years and even now.

    If we start reviewing and analysing such discussions in public and media, we can see that Diwali crackers were opposed on various counts at various times. (The viewpoints of ISC members also changed at various times also reflecting the same pattern.)

    The justifications go on like:
    Arguing that they lead to exploitation and child labour, saying that they are sheer waste of money in a poor country, that they cause sound pollution, and now that they are trying to catch the empathy of people saying that Diwali crackers are the main cause of air pollution. There are many thousands of innocents in our country who swallow that also due to their naivety.

    I had put my view in my response to this thread as early as in 2011, when I was a newcomer to ISC. But later I found similar threads on every Diwali season and hence did not respond on most of them.

    There are many other things, more serious in the country which affect people - ruled against by courts-but reversed by state and central governments. So it is for the government to find ways to solve the issue as early as posible,because, by and by a feeling of betrayal and cheating is getting into people's minds . Now it is only Delhi and just Diwali crackers. Soon this will become an all-India matter and on many other matters, which will give people some different hints and signals, different ways of exploiting the same and matters may turn different then.

    So though I do not see anything wrong technically in the court's ruling as it is within its power and limits, there are many non-legal implications. Is Diwali cracker the only and everyday cause of pollution? If not whether the other major and more serious causative factors are banned or curtailed?

    Another question naturally will be asked: are all court orders followed and implemented in letter in every other matter?
    Are they not changed by some other law making by legislatures?

    Diwali without the colour of fireworks cannot be imagined. The ban will gradually lead to kill the Diwali festival itself which is one of a very few unique all India festival celebrated for its religious,social and festivity significance. Then what will be the larger implications on trade, business and employment?

    These are to be properly and rationally considered by people and the government.

  • #612317
    Obviously , it is my personal opinion that should had banned and I heartily welcome the decision given by the Supreme court . It is the best step took by the Supreme court in order to bring down the pollution level and for the welfare of the citizens. it should be not only banned on the festival but also should be banned on any occasion like , marriage, election , sports, etc. But I am very annoyed most of our residents in Delhi used fireworks and they did not follow the order given by Supreme court. It has been a bad traditional custom . It must be removed from eradicated. Our prime minister should assist not to use fireworks because it is not good for his mission Swachh Bharat Abhiyan . Keep clean India and green India. thanks

  • #612380
    I welcome the decision of banning crackers in NCR during Deepawali. There is nothing like anti-religious to a particular religion in this decision. This is immaterial when the trdition of bursting crackers added with a more eco-freindly tradition of lighting lamps. This ban is on crackers which are injurious to the health of young ones in particular and all human being in general.

    Aluminium and magnesium powder, potassium, strontium, barium nitrates, potassium chlorate,lead red phosphorous, zinc oxide and sulphur are used in making of crackers. This chemicals have their effects on the health. Lead fumes are the most dangerous and they may cause mental redardation and nervous system related problems especially in young children. Other chemicals may cause skin problems, burns,lungs problems and other respiratory problems. The noise may cause deafness and light and bursting may cause eye injuries. During Deepawali, tons of crackers are bursted and all these chemicals pollute the ambience.

    I suppose that this ban will extend to all India by the next year, I also assume that the other polluting agents will be taken care of soon. The industrial waste and the pollution owing to Diesel vehicals will also be looked into.

    I also of the opinion that only banning crackers is a very temporary solution for a very short period. The govt. has to find out eco-freindly alternatives of diesel vehicals and reduce industrial pollution. Popularising CNG vehicals in place of diesel vehicals and minimising traffic congestion are some of the solutions to reduce pollution in cities like Delhi and other metros.

  • #612383
    I really welcome the inclusive participation of even new members and probably for the first time my thread could attract so many response. Editor may close this thread.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease


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