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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    The present route of the proposed Bullet Train- Mumbai to Ahmedabad- is running in loss.

    The Ministry of Railways replied to an RTI enquiry that over 40% of the seats in the Mumbai- Ahmedabad route are falling vacant for the past three months. The loss to the Railways is to the tune of Rs 29/ crores. There are 32 Mail and Express trains and another 31 trains running in this route. This is the route selected for the first Bullet Train in India. The Railway Ministry should have made a proper assessment of the traffic and revenue in this route. If the Bullet Train runs on loss, it will be another huge burden on the taxpayers and passengers.
  • #613715
    Good information, if it's true then it would be a waste of resources. I think we need to look whether this is just a seasonal variation. I'm surprised that if Mr.KVRR can pick it up as a concern, some top officials in the Bullet project would have certainly analysed this before investing in a multi-crore venture that the tax-payer will be paying for many years more than he can remember.

  • #613716
    But don't you think people would rather board a bullet train just for the experience.
    Bullet trains are faster and arrive at time, which is exactly what the frustrated Indians want. This would reduce the number of trains and increase the frequency of bullet trains.
    Soon the demand would increase in other parts of the nation. And before you know, India turns into Japan or China with monorails and bullet trains flooding.
    Bottom line, the bullet train route could be used for inland tourism.
    People from different states will pour in to have the experience.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #613722
    #613716:
    The experience of travelling on a Bullet Train remains for some time. The exorbitant fares will definitely dampen the enthusiasm of a common man. The fare will be the first barrier for regular travellers.
    In any road or railway project, important points to be considered are the number of points it will connect, sufficient traffic and economic feasibility. At times it becomes necessary to run on losses to provide transport facilities.
    Just for the fun of it, we cannot have Bullet Trains. The priorities also should be considered.

    I like your optimism.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613768
    If a person can travel by air and reach the destination fast, then why he would prefer bullet train which is on par with airplane cost and thus there are less takers for bullet trains.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #613798
    Many quote the ticket price to be around 3000-5000 rupees. An interesting report, IIM Ahmedabad has done a study. At the estimated ticket cost of Rs1500/person, bullet train needs to transport 88,00-1,18,000 passenger or roughly 100 trips/day, every day to ensure the loans (80% given by Japan) are paid in time. From the ticket price estimated 20-40% would go for maintenance costs. It would certainly enhance the image perception of Indian Railways. Realistically, it would a couple of operational years to see the true impact of Bullet train and then we can decide to implement it in other sectors ( 9 such routes have been identified in India) or the shelve it as a magnanimous project. Only time would tell.

  • #613799
    There may be a reason for this. The travel from Mumbai to Ahmedabad by flight may be very costly. The people who want to commute fast will always try for the fastest way of travelling. As on date flight is the answer. The train will take more time and the people may be losing more time in the travel. But they feel going by flight is very expensive. For such people, this Bullet train may be an answer. I feel the fares by this train will definitely less than flight. If the commuting time is not very high and they can travel for a fewer cost people may prefer. The second thing is as mentioned by Aditya many people may prefer to have the experience of Bullet train. I will tell you my own experience. I had been to China. I and another Director of the company went there. We stayed in a city. From there we want to visit another city. There was a flight in the morning. But there was a fast train in the night which will start at 10.00PM and reach the destination by 6.00AM. We prefer going by that train. We spend less and we saved time and we had the experience of the fast train in China.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #613801
    I wish if they had invested the amount on strengthening the existing railway networks and platforms if not the other sectors. It would have benefitted the common man.

    If this project does not turn out as expected it will be huge debt for the coming working generation, as it's obvious that more taxes will be levied on the working people.

  • #613805
    As per the statistics quoted by Mr Natarajan, the Bullet Train seems to be a loss-incurring project. The Railways cannot try to enhance its image by going for loss incurring projects. The economic feasibility of the project is overlooked to provide Gujarat with a Bullet Train as an appeasement.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613826
    Honestly I have not expected this thread. I never heard that cost-benefit analysis of a project is done within three months. I am really sorry to note that the intolerance to a particular political leader has become so hopelessly ridiculous.

    This is beyond the scope of what I have studied in management.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #613832
    There are so many questions that arise in this thread. Did we take into account the flight occupancy ratio in this route? As people in this region are business minded, they might have taken air routes to save time. Similarly, why only last three months report is sought and what is the occupancy ratio through out the year? We know that railways make some profits only in goods carriage and not in passenger carriage. We should always welcome new technologies. It is like asking why do we need mobile phones when most of India is in poverty.

  • #613837
    My replies have never against a leader. I just mentioned some facts. I've also stated that only time will really tell us how good this is and it would enhance the country/railway image.

  • #613840
    Mr. Natarajan: My comment at #613826 was not about your answer. I was talking about the main thread.
    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #613841
    I also comply with the observations made by Partha. Any project when it is introduced first, the takers would be less because of less awareness and also in this case the fear of traveling. We know some people are having speed phobia and they cannot sustain over speeding vehicles and in this case the train. Nevertheless the popularity need to be increased and for that Railways can augment even goods carriage with the passengers one so that some reduction in cost of fare can be considered. In India people want to travel with cheaper rates and if the Railways address this problem then the bullet train project would be hit.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #613851
    # 613826:
    Honestly, I am very surprised that you did not expect this thread. I advise everyone to read the content of the thread line by line but not between the lines and respond.
    1, Why you did not expect the thread when it is all over the media yesterday?
    2. The economic feasibility study will be done prior to sanctioning the project. I do not know what you have learned about the economic feasibility of a project in the management course/training.
    3. The numerical figures given by Natarajan are from the study conducted by IIM, Ahmadabad. The arrived at the figures from the 16th year of operation as there is a moratorium on the loan for the first 15 years. I think they know better than you.
    4. As usual, your habit of intolerance is reflected in your response.
    The friendly fire has exposed that there is no political motivation in this thread.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613862
    @Natarajan:

    Correct the figure of people to be transported to 88000. You have indicated it as 8800.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613865
    Economic feasibility study before the initiation of the project and cost-benefit analysis after three months of the commencement of the project are exactly not same.

    Moreover, there are two types of benefits associated with a project. One is tangible and another one is intangible. Has IIM-Ahmedabad considered the intangible benefits in the study? I think no.

    But who bothers about such details? Let's enjoy our 'Hate Modi' campaign.

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #613867
    What makes you feel that the IIM, Ahmadabad has not studied the project in depth? They are professionals and they know what they are doing. They made the study with three assumptions. (1) The ticket price Rs 1500/. (2) The maintenance charges will be 20% to 40% of the income after 15 years of operation. (3). The number of passengers to be transported is arrived at by considering the loan, interest and period of repayment. If you find fault with their assumptions or their study better write to them to correct their study report.
    What makes you feel that this is a campaign against Modi? Very unfortunate. Think in a positive manner.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613869
    Let me expose the propaganda:-

    "Contrary to media reports, Mumbai-Ahmedabad train section running at above 100% occupancy and will benefit immensely from Bullet train."-Piyush Goyal, Railway Minister

    Ravinder Bhakar, Chief PRO, Western Railway: "The RTI reply by the railways was based on a specific query made about the number of passengers boarding at Mumbai Central and then alighting at Ahmedabad.

    That is, it didn't include the figures about other scenarios like:

    -Passengers boarding at Mumbai Central and getting down an an intermediary station before Ahmedabad

    -Passengers boarding at any other en-route station and getting down at Ahmedabad.

    -Passengers boarding at an en-route station and alighting at an intermediary station."

    Caution: Explosive. Handle with care.

  • #613873
    I think media is over exaggerating even a small issue, which raises a finger towards the current Government. I don't understand why people are opposing bullet trains even if it makes some loss in the initial stages. We used to write letters to our parents, which was very cheap. Now, aren't we using phones for faster communication, even if it pinches our purse? Sail with the new technological world and leave the mentality of opposing everything for the sake of opposing.

  • #613892
    The RTI query is about passengers boarding at Mumbai and getting down at Ahmadabad and vice-versa. That is correct as per the clarification issued by the Western Railway. The Bullet Train also runs between these two places. It is also correct as per the information given under RTI that 40% of the seats are falling vacant in the direct passengers between these two stations not counting the intermediate traffic. Just think with an open mind, how many passengers will be travelling to intermediate stations by Bullet Train? The Bullet Train will have two intermediate stops. It is common knowledge that direct passengers will only prefer Bullet Train. For intermediate stops, most of the passengers prefer other trains.

    The Metro Man, E.Sreedharan, termed the Bullet Train project as a white elephant. He ought to know better than us. Mr E.Sreedharan is the person who developed the Konkan Railways and Metro Rail system in India.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613894
    Even the Delhi Metro is not able to turn around and it still makes losses even after 11 years. Did the Metro man go wrong somewhere?
    What about the technology transfers through the Bullet trains of Japan. Japanese bullet trains have the least history of accidents. Even after 165 years, we are not able avoid train accidents. Once we get the bullet trains, we can improve our traditional railway network also.

  • #613913
    The Metro Man is an engineer. It is his duty to take care of planning and construction. The viability of the project is the concern of the Government. Study more about Mr E.Sreedharan. What sort of technology are you talking about? It is your opinion that we have to wait until the completion of Bullet Train for improving the condition of our railway network. This is what is called misguided priorities.
    I am not against Bullet Train but it is not a priority. It can wait until the existing network of railways is taken care of. You said that the Delhi Metro is making losses. How can you expect the Bullet Train to make a profit? It is taxpayers like us who bear the brunt of misguided priorities.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613916
    When we are talking about business viability regarding Bullet trains, then why did Sreedharan came into picture in our discussion. If we can wait for 165 years, can't we wait for commencement of Bullet train project. Safety precautions will be taken care from the commencement of the project and not after completion of the project. If we can't solve the train accident problems for 165 years, can we solve it within 8-10 years. These are the number of years we need to wait for Bullet trains to be introduced in India as mentioned by Sreedharan.

    Regarding your second query, if Delhi metro, which was the brainchild of Sreedharan, is not able to make profits, how can we argue that Bullet trains should make profits during initial years. By seeing the example of Delhi metro, we can conclude that Governments work for people and not for money.

  • #613917
    Mr Bhuvan,
    Mr E Sreedharan came into the discussion as he is an expert. His view is that considering the priorities of the railway network in India, it is a misguided priority. Accidents, mainly derailments have increased causing the death and injury to the passengers. It is estimated that about 40% of the tracks require modernisation. Many jobs which are vital for the safety of passengers like Gang men, Points men, Signalmen are left vacant to reduce the expenditure. In such of these circumstances, is it necessary to go for a big investment to the tune of 98000 crores? A fraction of this amount is sufficient to modernise the present network. Now you decide for yourself which is the top priority. Is it the modernisation of the existing network and reduce the number of accidents causing death and injury to the passengers or a huge investment on Bullet Train which serves few lakhs of people?

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613919
    Train accidents in India are not a recent phenomenon. When we are not able to control the accidents to the level of zero manually, we don't have any other choice but to move forward in an automated way.

  • #613924
    Where is the money? At Rs 98000 crores for one route, how much money is required to introduce them on all important routes? In the absence of modernisation, the accidents continue to happen and people will be losing their lives. I wish we we will not be one among them.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613937
    I think the question is not about the actual Bullet train or advances, is it appropriate at this point in time?. Just to give some perspective, The world's average spending of GDP on healthcare is around 5.99%, This year's Indian health budget is Rs48,853 crores.It roughly amounts to 1.2%-2% of GDP on health care depend on the source. It is estimated that nearly 1 million Indian every year lose their lives to inadequate facilities in the healthcare sector. We have the key target to be met like a major improvement in infant mortality rate and maternal mortality rates that reflects the robustness of the government health care policies. Can we do it? If we can answer this, then we would automatically know the answer to the question in the first line.

  • #613942
    @Natarajan, you are going into a new subject. The question you raised is valid. Raise a thread on this subject which is relevant at any time in India.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #613952
    There is a deep-rooted regionalism exists in this.Today Modi the Prime Minister of this country tomorrow some other fellow will come he also wants to have a smart train for his region again crores of rupees were spent on that project ultimately the people of this country are victims and all our hard earned money will be evaporated in the form of taxes with these type of useless projects. There will be no profit with this. First thing Modi should learn he should not show any partiality towards any region. Some members are saying that Mamata did the same thing, Lalu did the same thing that is why they disappeared from the central. If Modi wants to go back to pavilion the doors are wide opened.
    A blunt knife or rusted knife can't be useful for anything just for the sake we call it as the knife similar to PayTM series or Sachin or Virat records.

  • #613965
    @KVRR, Thanks and I agree, I mentioned it because you raised a very important point ' Is it of priority', also I was surprised by the coincidence, the bullet train project (98000 crores) is a little over India health budget for this year (48,853 crores). To me, it gives some idea of the value of the money we are investing.


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