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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Are men not victims of a patriarchal society?

    Do you feel that the male gender are victims in a patriarchal society? What's your outlook on this?

    The rising feminist discourse has raised a debate about gendered roles given to the two dominant sexes of society. But the debate must also include the way men have been treated in a Patriarchal society. Let us see some situations -
    1. At times of war, men must go to war against their wish too and this has happened throughout history.
    2. If being a good "Characterized Woman" is the excuse given for women's oppression, then valor was the term used to make men fight and give up their lives.
    3. Men who do not want to take up the role of family business, being bread winner member of the family, have often been disregarded by society. This continues till date.

    Does it not seem the gender difference of male / female in a patriarchal society has sometimes oppressed men too?

    Note: The above question is just a academic debate.
  • #613986
    Men can never be called as victims, but I agree that the way society has been thinking and reacting to the women and men being blamed for everything, it must have caused many of the men to think and feel oppressed too.
    Do what inspires you !!

  • #614026
    "But the debate must also include the way men have been treated in Patriarchal society."

    Why is it that when women's issues are discussed, men come up with their share of grievances? If men have an issue with the patriarchal society they should create awareness about it through a separate initiative. To ask for their problems to be 'included' just highlights the insensitivity men have towards women's problems.

    Let's discuss the present day and leave history alone. In today's world women are part of the defence forces. They want to be part of the combat force and are not shying away from duty. It is for the services to decide how to include them. Women aren't asking to be treated with kids' gloves.

    And what analogies are being presented here. Fighting for one's motherland is an honour. Terming being a breadwinner as oppressive is ridiculous! The trouble is men don't see women as a working force. Keeping home and looking after the family is also a job, an equally important one. Women work in the house and outside it as well. Not just the modern woman, but women in villages and slums. See the kind of hardships they endure.

    Women aren't fighting saying they'll not do the housework. All they are standing up for is equal rights, the same freedom as men, and the same wages as men. Women want respect, not men groping and ogling at them. A woman loses her identity, just because of her gender. Why does anyone have to decide what she must wear or with whom she must speak or what time she must get home or what she can eat. Oppression happens when basic rights are taken away. Why? Because men have the privileges and women do not. We also have dangerous men lurking, everywhere, who make it unsafe for women to enjoy their freedom.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #614033
    Juana Mam
    The thread is not to protray a men versus women debate. The thread title clearly gives it as Patriarchy and so the oppression to men by men dominated society is the intent.
    Men and Women together make up society and it is no wrong to discuss men issues along with women issues.
    The intent of the thread is to discuss the victimizarion of men during certain incidents.
    I am speaking of millions of men. How many men go to war with patriotism? How many men would have thought what difference does it make when enemy king rules over him? Must we believe men fought with valour even when his ruler is a tyrant?
    The bread winner concept was intentionally brought. I have known some of my friends who wanted to do family works instead of working. They have their female counterparts who go to work without any problem. But the way society looks and treats them at times is not acceptable. When his own wife does not have any problem I find it immaterial why society is degrading him.
    In fact this thread is to stop differentiating certain duties by attributing them to men and women.
    It was disheartening to note in armed forces women are discriminated by not giving regular promotions just because they are women. Just months back women neutralised terrorist in border with so much precision which men find it difficult. In this scenario it is difficult to digest why women were denied service promotions. Women in navy, Air force, Army are working as team better than men. Recently an entire unit made of women personnel guide patrol boats with sophisticated technology and the way they coordinate and live together for months in sea without acces to mainland is commendable.
    I have known women police officers who are being sent to riot control, patrol, surveilance, VIP security in inhospitable conditions.
    Society is about men, women, transgenders working together without any bias.
    Men are showing laxity these days.
    In femism there are various perspectives.
    1. Liberal.
    2. Marxist.
    3. Radical.
    and etc.
    In this your approach is liberal which fights for equal rights.
    What I am speaking is why not radical feminism.?

  • #614036
    Men can never be called avictim of a patrichial society as he was always on the top most priority of everything . There may have been few instances where men may have felt that they are been forced into something but they were never lead life of slaves within gender roles they had freedom to choose even at that time, even if they were critcised for being different thay had this freedom to be different .
    But womens were never free to choosr to take decision for themselves it was always the men to think about their future like a caretaker or a owner.
    I can sympathise with few men who may have suffered a little but calling them a victim of patrichial society sounds more funny then a serious issue.

    "It is hardest thing in the world to be good thinker without being a good self examiner"

  • #614039
    By all means, come up with your concerns and fight for your rights, but you would be trivialising women's issues, by bringing in your set of problems to the discussion. I don't like women's issues being diluted. Men and women face different kinds of oppression.

    Women are fighting for rights now. So, let's keep the debate in the present, so it remains relevant. Past tyrannies are not up for discussion.

    I am a veteran's wife, and I know the patriotic fervour that men and women of our Armed Forces display. Do not belittle their sacrifices, by raising doubts on their patriotism. I see that as an insult. You have no idea of the lives they live. So, don't judge without having walked in those shoes. Men, who join the Services, know what they are signing up for.

    The number of men who want to be stay-at-home dads and husbands is minuscule. The numbers do not warrant a discussion. As long as they are comfortable doing what they do, it should be fine. Why do they bother about society? Ignore.

    Please note, I did not mention women were denied promotion – I spoke about not allowed to join the combat forces, being part of the real fighting force, they were instead relegated to auxiliary positions. Lady Officers in the Navy cannot sail (get posted) on warships, because of various factors.

    I think society needs to sort out the big issues that daunt women, before going into fancy debates.

    Women today are asking for a life of dignity. The #MeToo campaign should be an eye-opener to what every woman goes through. Sexual harassment is not something that we must endure or be accepted to live with. Rape should not even be an option for a man. Equal wages for the same work is not asking for the skies. Opportunities and freedom from age-old shackles – I think women are justified in asking for what's due. Men need lessons in gender sensitisation. Why should women have to feel threatened by men?

    In the country's premier colleges of technology, women students are locked inside their hostel at 20:00 hours. They can't attend seminars and guest lectures, can't take part in events that ask for night long sessions of brainstorming. These are not minors. Men in the same campus enjoy freedom. Is someone who has qualified a major entrance exam, at the All India level, not capable of making decisions in their personals lives? Do they have to be imprisoned, for their safety? Why not educate the men – that's a demand feminist make. In comparison to all that women go through a man fighting for his freedom to be a stay-at-home husband is petty. The issues that you raise are isolated, whereas almost 100% women go through similar problems.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #614044
    I accept your view points. Actually I am not having much difference of opnion in the problems you have mentioned as faced by women except on way of approaching them.
    But first I need to clarify my previous response.
    The point that" women officers are not given adequate service benefits including promotion". I am not attributing this point as you have said. This point was given in Hindu Newspaper as a report.
    Indian army is a" patriotic voluntary force". The view point of belliting Army sacrifice is not my view point at all. This amounts to sedition on my part. I do not intent it. I work for Government of India and I do not want to hear being Seditious from a veteran family. The point of men going to war was defenitely not about Indian armed forces. I have mentioned about tyrants. We are living in democracy and it can substantiate I am not speaking of Indian army. Further I have said of kings. We live in democracy. In the rest of view I do not intend to disrupt but with due respect I submit that this thread just wants to deacribe that men too are victimised. It is like men alienated.
    Some where down the line it seems I have not conveyed my intent properly but I don't find anything more appropriate in the way to raise this issue.
    Men are living in a world dominated by men's views but not to his benefit. This is the explaination of the title meaning.

  • #614098
    Can I recieve atleast a single response from male Members of the site to have a broader discussion before concluding? They may oppose or support the topic. It does not matter.

  • #614103
    25years back in the society dowry system was on its peak. One young boy decided no to take dowry. He told his father that he is not interested in taking dowry. His father accepted and informed the girl's father about the same. After two days the gurl's father send a word saying that they are not interested in the match. Later we have enquirer why they refused, they thought that the boy is having some problem as they are not asking for dowry.
    My sister works in a government office and her husband is not working anywhere. He will attend house old work. The neighbours laugh at him.
    In my street there is a couple. The wife drives the scooter. The husband sits on the back seat. All the ladies laugh at this man behind him.
    The society is having a preconceived idea that certain works are to be done by maleonly and certain works by female only. What is wrong if a person is against dowry system. What is wrong if a male does household work. What is wrong if the husband sits on the back seat if the wife is driving the bike. Is it not abusing the males by the society. Like this in many incidents male are forced to go away from their wishes.
    These days there are no gender discrimination. All the three genders are equal. Anybody can take up any profession they choose and there should not be any differences in nature of duties, remuneration and other privileges. But why we expect certain things to be done by only males. I fail to understand.

    always confident

  • #614110
    On a lighter vein, the author's request for at least one reply from the Patriarch of the Patriarchial society answers his question. In the patriarchal society, man has been stereotyped into certain roles and I'm glad that things have changed and both genders are taking on roles based on their aptitude and chances; in the near future we would have an egalitarian society.Yes, there is a bias but that's not the point of this thread.
    In many traditional patriarchial families, the fathers choose their daughter-in-laws that means men don't get to choose their wives. Men are not encouraged to show their emotions if a grown-up boy or a man cries, then he is not 'manly' enough. Men cannot appear weak at any cost, even if it means suffering in silence.

    Patriarchy is an unfair system where both sexes are victims but women have borne the majority of the brunt for a far longer duration, in comparison some men have borne it in silence but they are far and few apart. Both are important in their own might for the growth of society.

  • #614116
    Men are the people who are suffering in silence. Though they are in right way, have done best to the society, even one mistake would make them bad in the eyes of society dominated by women and thus branded anti women and so, Some have a knack of adjusting attitude and take the blame on them , but many would retard against the abuse and thus caught as anti. There are supporters for the women and there are right safe guarding organization for women. But what about men. If a women is having grudge on a man, she can bring him on the roads or sent to the jail with wrong complaints and the law is highly favoring the women these days. No one would hear the sincere man who done no mistake.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

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