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  • Category: Problems/Complaints

    Questioning contest decisions

    In the recent Photo story contest winners' announcement thread the judgement was considered to be first "poor" and then "very poor". So it was decided to initiate this separate thread to discuss a few things about contests in general & this contest in particular instead of taking that thread off-track.

    First and foremost, is it right to question the judgment of contests that we conduct? Whether it is based on our own topic or that of a thread taken up as a contest, should the decision on the winners be questioned? Leave aside insulting the jury panel (yes, there is a panel & not just the announcer judging), does it not demean the winners' entries?

    Secondly, based on the complaint by Sun with regard to the photo contest: is it required that an entry should be adjudged a winner only if all aspects of the photo are part of the write-up? If you recall, when we had a contest based on a photo taken at a beach, then, too, the winning stories did not cover everything depicted in the photo. What is wrong in declaring a story as a winner if its focus is very lucidly related to at least one relevant part of the photo?

    Let us have a reasonable discussion on this.
  • #630618
    I really feel nowadays to look at the comments and remarks of the members and I thought there should be some intervention from admn then and there to keep them in place.

    I second the opinion of ME in the thread (in the link) and if we keep some judge for any contest, we should accept whatever judgment they have done. It is the perspective of the anybody to look at anything and it will not match with other's lookout.

    I hope members will take it in right spirit and contribute and cordial relation may be maintained in ISC. Nowadays, it is really felt to refer or link to others the URL because anytime any thread may go off track and we have a black face to feel proud about ISC.

    Nice to be in ISC and feel the difference.

  • #630619
    In general, contests and results always have a rider in Terms and Conditions 'the decision of the jury if final, no contesting the results allowed or all complaints will be settled in a particular state.
    At ISC, there should be not a need for such 'fine print' because we 'know each other' and are in this site for sharing knowledge.
    Apart from regular points and cc for creative writing, contests are an extra bonus. A chance to participate, explore and win some extra cash.
    As members, we shouldn't be questioning the results of the panel. If, it is one judge and there is a repetitive bias in contests, then yes we can raise a thread and have a debate.
    From my own experience, I have got cc, when I've responded with fewer lines in forum reply, I've got TOW special prize TOW for the week 4th March -10th March 2018 (Winners). when the thread has few response than my other threads with many responses. This to me is fairness on the part of the admin team.
    So, yes we shouldn't be questioning. Future contests can have a rider for completion sake. 'judges decision is final, no queries will be entertained'.

  • #630622
    We must appreciate hard work done by the Editors. They are doing this work in between their work schedules. As this site is mentioned to share knowledge, it will increase our skills and knowledge. The contest is also an option to gain cash credits and we must utilize this rather than complaining.
    "Earning knowledge is by sharing it with ISC and we will rectify our mistakes."

  • #630623
    I have only two points to mention in this context:-

    1. I don't have any objection regarding the decision of the Editors to select the winners.

    2. I feel very ashamed that I didn't link the laptop to my story, especially when I planned to link it perfectly to my story. I wrote the story in a hurry and didn't check it before posting.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #630628
    Generally, in any of the competitions and contests, the decision of the judges is final. So we can't question the decision of the judges and all participants should accept the judgement. Sometimes we may feel that somebody else has done it better but we are not the persons to judge. For Judgement, they will have same guidelines and points to check. As a participant, we don't know what are the points they are seeing in the contribution. In ISC also they may be a Jury for each contest and that jury is finalising the winning participants and one editor is announcing. Announcing person may be a party to the jury or not also we don't know.
    I have just a point to mention that whether it is possible for ISC to declare what are the guidelines and important qualities the judges are looking for to decide the winner for various contests.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #630631
    The contest is now over. I am now eagerly awaiting my enhanced points credit and also the cash credit.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #630635
    Sorry to intervene. When there are two big things (In the photo of the said contest - A clearly visible cycle,cyclist toy and a big lap top on which the toy is placed) in a photo, I think the judges should look for the writing of both the big important things( A toy and a computer). Supposing if a photo had a Elephant toy and a Horse toy, would it be right to write about elephant only or horse only. Would it not be appropriate to mix the elephant and horse and create a story.

    True. we should not question the judgement of the juries if it was a fair one. But in the contest in question had a room to question the authorities.

    Members need to look at the contest photo: read the winning stories; compare it with the story of Sun, and post your responses. You are requested to spare some time to read all the 6 prize winning stories and give a second thought to your hurried responses." Yes Madam, You are right"

    No life without Sun

  • #630645
    @Sun

    You may not believe, whenever I return after a gap to ISC my first thing is to read-only, not even respond or participate because I always love to read and this time also the first thread seen by me is this contest thread and I have read all the stories. So it is purely my opinion on any competition or contest that we have to accept the panel's judgment. And once your thread is selected for the contest, then you cannot claim it is your's, it is admn's announcement and only you can participate or comment as a member only. So there is no question of comparing other stories and your story.

    At the time of announcement itself, then you should have objected that it need not be judged by others and you should have told, as usual, you will judge and award. Recently, your remark on joke thread too you have not given credit to the members valuable with a comment saying, you have not enjoyed. Even that judgment anyone might have a feeling as poor or very poor.

    Nice to be in ISC and feel the difference.

  • #630648
    What I feel that when ISC takes over the contest from the member, then he cease to make any suggestion or comment and the decision of the editors are final with regards to selection of entries and prizes.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #630659
    Humans rejoice when rewarded. Complain when lost.
    Any judgement will be followed by a flood of criticisms.
    We all saw how good the entries were for the contest. I,myself, thought that my entry deserves a prize. But that's the beauty of competitions and contests. Your best competes with the universal best. It's only obvious that the universal best would be preferred to yours.

    Don't take these kind of criticisms seriously Vandana. Discontent is prevalent everywhere we go.
    The judgement was just and majority ascents to the judgement.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #630664
    As far as I remember, the author Sun had himself participated in the contest and had submitted an entry in which reference of IndiaStudyChannel page opened in the laptop was made.

    Since the photo was taken by himself after opening his laptop and the ISC page on the same, he was fully aware of the micro-details and therefore he was in a position to refer the same.

    Irrespective of the merits of the judgement, I am of opinion that the author Sun should not have been allowed to participate in the contest as the photo was taken by himself.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630668
    Members,
    Leave alone the owner of the photograph and the contest announcer. Just look at the photograph and think about the two big objects that are visible to the readers. I hope they are not blind to see the laptop, but only the cycle &boy. Infact, the size of the laptop is three times larger than the cyclist toy. The photograph was not taken with an intention to submit to conduct a photo contest, and to write a story. The photograph was a casual click and post, and was liked by the ME, and she thought of having a photo contest with that photograph. But the judges did not fair well. The judgement went wrong without a laptop.

    No life without Sun

  • #630671
    In my story there is mention of laptop besides many other minor details depicted in the photograph. However, I do agree than in many entries only bicycle was picked as a theme though there was much substance in the photograph.
    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630672
    Members,
    To have a good view and understanding about the photograph, I am attaching the photo here.

    No life without Sun

    Delete Attachment

  • #630688
    Sun take it in other way. You did submit a wonderful toy for the appreciation of members and that has been subsequently converted into photo contest. But the lap top what you were referring has the ISC home page and that is the added advantage to the photo as it gives the advertisement publicity to the site. Since you choose to keep the toy in front of your lap top with our site seen on the screen, I appreciate your presence of mind and the site got free publicity through that post and then various responses through the photo contest. So your help to portray the site for free publicity should have been rewarded.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #630697
    Sun, how do you expect others to think in the same way as you do? It was, after all, a creative contest and hence the take on the photo provided will differ from individual to individual. One can allow his creative thoughts to follow so many angles after having a look at the photograph. 'Apur Sansar' may have been made differently if it was directed by someone other than the great Satyajit Ray and that is what being creative is all about. You cannot question the eligibility of the prize-winning entries in the photo contest just because the winning entries were not conceived in the way you would have/ had done. But then that is not the criteria we follow.

    Though this is not an issue that needs to be discussed due to the simple fact that it has been made clear on earlier occasions that the judgment of the conducting editor/ team would be final, the same was necessitated due to your remarks that the assessment was poor/ very poor. I would like to know how you, given a chance, would have assessed the entries and who would have been the winners?

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #630702
    Mr. Saji,
    It would be improper and imprudent to assess the winners now by me alone. However, If you assure me to change your entire prize winners and take their points and credits back, I will be able to provide the winners list. Are you ready ? If I were a Judge, I would not have given the first prize to a person who has not touched up the laptop at all while there is a story from a member covering all aspects of the photograph. And prefer to give it to a member who has written about the laptop somewhere big or small. If there was no one to write about laptop but only the cyclist, I would have agreed with the prize winners.

    Supposing I provide a photograph of an elephant and an ant sitting over it, would you award prize to a story which covers only the ant and ignores the elephant? Similar is the case with the laptop and the toy.

    Also, supposing I provide a photo of Sun and Saji sitting together and sipping a cup of tea or coffee, for the contest, willl you award prize to a member who wrote about Saji only and ignore the member who covered both Sun and Saji in his story?

    If the language of the member who covered both the laptop and the toy, Elephant and ant, or Sun and Saji was not excellent/very good/good /fair, they should be considered for a consolation prize or a special prize or a special appreciation.

    @ ISC judgement needs improvement.

    No life without Sun

  • #630709
    We will have to accept that a 'Photo Contest' has to be different than a 'Story Contest' in the sense that in the 'Photo Contest' , apart from the standard criteria of language and presentation skills of the participants, the elements of the given photo has to be accorded due weightage and the story has to be primarily spinned around the theme depicted in the photograph in its entirety, to the possible extent. In the given 'Photo Contest' under discussion, many participants only picked the 'bicycle' element of the photo, though I had taken care to include helmet, pizza delivery, side wheels attached to the rear wheels, lock on the rear wheel, sportswear shorts and water bottle on the back of the boy etc. and woven a story conveying a clear message of wearing helmet in the interest of safety which is much relevant in the context of ever increasing road accidents in India.
    '

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630712
    Mr. Kailash,
    By omitting the laptop and taking care of the cycle, the boy, the cycle parts etc. you have not covered the entire photograph in which a huge size laptop is clearly seen and visible. It is like writing the ant, its body, size, look and ignoring the big elephant. Will it be okay for a photo contest? The story should cover both the elephant and ant. At least you should say that the ant sitting over a big black elephant is small, powerful,smart,busy etc...............(.) Whereas, in the first prize winner's write up, there is no mention about the laptop. The laptop should have been added if not in a big way but at least like some salt to taste.

    The best photo contest story writer is he who covers the entire big objects in the photograph that are visible to all. My good story covers the Toy, the Laptop, and India study channel with a lively narration with the events taking place in a mall and at home. Will anyone say that my story is a mismatch with irrelevant events with bad language and spelling mistakes?

    I think, the ISC judges read only the stories of the members without looking at the photograph, and never tried to compare the story with the photograph to select the right winner member. Hence I call it as poor and very poor judgement.

    No life without Sun

  • #630713
    Mr Kailash, first of all, it was a photo story contest. Secondly, how can we say that all the elements in the given photograph have to find a mention in the story? Would it be a creative writing then? It is best to leave it to the author to decide the route his story has to take. Being a contest, winners cannot be decided simply on the basis of what all features of the photograph have been touched upon by them.

    Mr Sun, your examples of ant and an elephant or Sun and Saji does not relate to the photograph in this particular case. Can you draw the same connection between the laptop with ISC homepage and the toy cyclist? You feel so because you must have had some idea when you planned and took the photograph but others need not try to feel the same way.
    We won't be changing the winners in any case but why don't you give it a try, since you are so confident that the present results are flawed.

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #630714
    Kailash Kumar,

    Your response #630664 is utterly nonsensical! Just because Sun took the photo does not make him ineligible for participation.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630715
    Sorry Mr. Saji Ganesh the lead Editor of ISC.
    No try. It is highly imprudent. I don't wish to waste my time and try things for futile things. You may kindly answer my questions posed in my response # 630702 to justify your stand. Will you.......?

    No life without Sun

  • #630718
    Mr. Sun, going by your argument that everything should have been covered, I think you should have mentioned the bedsheet which covered the table, as well as the router(I assume its a router as I see an antenna), should also have been included, these were not covered in your story.

    There is no doubt that your story covered the laptop but it has not covered the other details in the picture. If I may take the liberty of saying so (I am not sure If I am allowed to say so) but there was also one line in your story which I found it inappropriate, the line in which you wrote about the lady hiding the stolen object.

    I also beg to differ that "The best photo contest story writer is he who covers the entire big objects in the photograph that are visible to all.", which is not the case. In my opinion, the best storyteller is the one who can carry it well, they may or may not take every object into consideration, also the best storyteller is the one who can keep the reader hooked up.

    In the photo there was a wide aspect, the story could have taken up in any way with any element. We should respect the judge's decision, as it is not so easy for them to decide the winner.

    Moreover, it's not right to question the judging panel unless there has been a discrepancy. It would be an insult to the panel as well as the participants.

  • #630721
    Sun,

    Please try to understand that when we stated "Keep in mind that your story should focus on what is depicted in the photo." we did not make it a hard and fast rule that everything that is depicted in the photo should be covered. As I said, for an earlier photo contest, too, we did not select winners from those whose entries covered everything that was shown in the photo. In this particular contest, it was the toy which was the central part, not the laptop. When you yourself posted the thread, you also asked members "what do you think of the toy?" (not sure of the exact words, though - this last line was removed when the thread was converted to a contest) and not "what do you think of the laptop?" or "what do you think of the placement of the toy on the laptop?"

    (Additional note: I agree that it is not right to tell a participant to list his/her choice of winners. That is taking this discussion a bit too far!)

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630722
    Dr. Rao,

    With reference to your query in #630628 - for any creative writing contest, we look for uniqueness. You may have noted that we often say "Think out of the box!" It is Ok if here and there English has gone a bit haywire. We are not looking for a high level of English skills. As long as there is clarity it is fine. The main purpose of such contests is to allow participants to showcase their talent to conjure up a nice story which is unique in some way, even if it is in only one aspect of it (let's say a unique character, the ending line, etc.) which blends well into the overall story. Stories inspired by films, books, etc would not really be considered unique.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630729

    No life without Sun

  • #630733
    Sun,

    Do not make personal comments. Put your views in an appropriate manner without needless adjectives.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630735
    Sun at # 630715. Is my response at #630713 not sufficient enough? I think so.
    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #630736
    I feel actually this thread is to know the views of various members on the subject. The subject is whether any member can question the decision of the jury after declaring the results of any contest conducted on this form. I feel all the members should come out with their views. But it appears we are discussing more a particular contest result again in this thread. Is it what expected from this thread?
    drrao
    always confident

  • #630740
    Instead of debating about one members' unhappiness about an completed photo contest. Why not we come up with a new set of guidelines for Photo contest, ( we had similar one on ask the experts after a few issues).

    The editors can lay down the rules and guidelines. The members can suggest relevant additions, if appropriate they can be incorporated and a final guideline can be issues. I think, this would be more constructive for the admin and the members.

  • #630744
    Vandana (#630714) - It is a matter of legal prudence as well as common sense that those persons who are involved or associated with creation of any contest are not allowed to participate in the same contest.

    I would request the Lead Editor Saji who is legally qualified to enlighten this forum with his valuable opinion.

    My dear friend SuN - Laptop is covered in my story as mentioned in post #630671.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630745
    Natarajan - suggestions are most welcome from everyone!

    Kailash Kumar - a simple fact and plain common sense (Sun provided only the photo as part of an ordinary forum thread & the contest was created by us from that thread, not by him) do not require an L.L.B. or, for that matter, any academic qualification! Besides, we are not discussing the eligibility of participants, are we? Do not take the thread off-track. Eligibility comes into play for only one thing - that a participating editor is not on the jury panel.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630754
    Dr. Rao and other members,
    This thread was raised by our ME only to give a chance to Sun to hear from others on the photo contest judgement. I have clearly explained my stand with suitable examples and questioned the editor quoting an elephant and ant. Sun & Saji sipping a cup of tea etc. Yet the ME, Editor Saji and few members failed to understand my stand. There is no answer from the concerned editor

    The photo contains only a laptop on a table top and a toy cyclist over laptop. A member who combines the laptop and toy, and writes a creative story should be the best than the member who writes a story purely about the laptop or the cyclist.

    No life without Sun

  • #630755

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630758
    Dear All,

    I have been going through all the responses frankly when Vandana mam initiated this thread, I never expected it to go this long and since I never took part in the contest or was active at the time of the contest I chose to not respond.

    But now going through all these responses I am actually forced to respond. If I am stepping out of line kindly forgive me. I began my journey in ISC in 2012 (if my memory serves me right). My sole purpose of joining was to express my views and to share whatever I have with everyone. This has been and still is the best platform for me to voice my opinion. When I started out I was a novice, I had little knowledge of writing and articulation and my grammar was good. I improved all that by writing forums and articles on a regular basis and although I received only a small amount of cash credits it was fine with me because making money was only secondary to me.

    In all the years that passed, I was unable to come back here cause of many personal things. But always what motivated me to come back here, again and again, are because of people like Vandana mam, Mr. Sun, Mr. Mohan, and many others. These were the people who asked me to write more, to express more and to explore more. But now when I see you guys debating on such topics, a picture, the jury, the results, really do not know what to think!

    ISC is meant for things more than this, it should be always greater than every one of us. I feel this is implied in our motto too. "Learn to earn, earn to learn" I would like to humbly request everyone to let it go. The competition is over with, the winners declared and the prizes distributed. Let's move on to the next contest with more prizes and more creativity! Is it wrong for this novice junior to wish for that much?

    Kindly forgive me for intruding, but I just couldn't help but respond.

    Regards,
    Sid

    Lets all try to create a better tomorrow for India.

  • #630766
    Vandana,
    You have asked - What is wrong in declaring a story as a winner if its focus is very lucidly related to at least one relevant part of the photo?"
    My question is - Why should you award a photo story that doesn't cover all the items depicted in the photo, and ignore a story that covers all the items depicted in the photo?

    What I feel is - The panel of editors who are to judge the contest read only the stories written by the members without making any comparison with the photo and the story. It was a blind method followed in selecting the best photo story.

    No life without Sun

  • #630776
    In any contest where competition is neck to neck, the final selection of winners is always a difficult task for the judges.

    Frankly speaking, the judges have sufficient experience and prudence to give a verdict or result to the submission of entries by the participants.

    Once the result is known, some of the participants may not be happy or satisfied as per their perception of all the entries and their relative merit. But it does not do any good to the process of evaluation because each participant will give his own list of winners.

    Interestingly, the average of sum of the results perceived by all the participants will again give almost the same result which we have already seen. So in my opinion raising a protest against the results proclaimed by the experienced team of editors may not be helpful in such cases.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #630826
    Mr Sun at #630754, is it you who did not understand or the members, the ME and the LE? Kindly stop beating around the bush. Your doubts have been amply clarified and now it is up to you to accept or decline the same. There is no point in reiterating the same point again and again. Sorry, but, you, somehow, keep reminding us time and again about the horse and the pond story.
    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #630831
    As I have already stated, I have no objection to the winners of the photo-story contest. But I simply don't understand the necessity of discussing the winners in a new (present) thread. And when this has been done, why do the Editor(s) continuously object to the opinions expressed by the Members.

    What purpose does this serve?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #630834
    Saji,
    Your response is uncalled for. When ME Madam Vandana has raised this thread to give a hearing for me, your words like "Stop beating around the bush etc". are not warranted. As you are not the part of the selection team, you should rest and watch. Kindly maintain the decency of an Editor of ISC. It would be nice if an editor who is from the selection panel respond to this thread. When there is a head, the tail should not wag.

    No life without Sun

  • #630836
    Since this thread is not yet locked, it is clear that more inputs and feedback from the members like me are expected by the admin.

    In this connection, I have to submit that in my opinion, there were following main elements in the photo of the 'Photo Contest -

    1. Helmet - for creation of awareness about road safety
    2. Bicycle - portraying environmental concerns, physical fitness and hardwork
    3. Pizza delivery - conveying employment through labour with dignity

    Laptop with ISC page opened in the same was secondary.

    The above submission is made only as a feedback and without any further aim or objective.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630839
    Sorry though late, I would like to recall the remark of Sun, if in a photograph, an ant sitting on an elephant and if a person writes about the only ant and not an elephant and surely that is the best creativity as far as I am concerned.

    For my point of view, please look into the various photographs attached with so many stories in magazines, on online portals, the photograph only depict only one line in the story or some part of the story and it will be boring when a story is only around photograph, then I feel it is not a story it is only essayed on a photograph.

    Also on different counts, since we are in ISC does not mean every story of ours should be around ISC and in that way, ISC need not be promoted. ISC is already a developed site and we are only meager part of ISC.

    Nice to be in ISC and feel the difference.

  • #630844
    Mr.SuN, Reading all the posts from you, it sounds very much that you are not in agreement with a concluded photo contest. What would be agreeable for you? A review of the results, like students doing after exams, 'revaluation'?
    Is there a provision for that?

  • #630850
    I concur with the views expressed by Saroja Ji that it is the height of creativity if an author writes a story on the ant only in a photo contest depicting an ant sitting on an elephant.

    There is a proverb in Hindi language - 'til ka tad banana' which roughly translates into English language as 'to make a palm tree out of a sesame seed'. The equivalent English proverbs being - 'storm in a teacup' or to 'make mountain out of S molehill'.

    In the present context, the idiom 'splitting hairs' also suits. The Managing Editor is requested to consider awarding enhanced points and CC on creative responses on this thread.

    Let us encourage each other in sharing knowledge.

  • #630852
    Sidharth - that was a nice response! No need to feel hesitant to express your views. There are no "juniors" or "seniors" as such. We sometimes use these terms, yes, but we usually mean it in reference to the duration of the membership and not in terms of seniority in the way it is in the corporate world.

    Natarajan - there is no process of revaluation.

    Sun - we do not disclose who is on the jury panel of any contest, so odd that you should admonish Saji and say he should only "rest and watch" as he is not on the selection panel. How did you arrive at this conclusion? How will you know who is or who isn't judging a contest? Besides, none of us should be issuing directives to others to stay on the sidelines and not air their views.

    Now that everyone has had their say and instead of repeating the same aspects of the discussion, how about the suggestions I said are welcome? We are willing to consider ideas for future photo contests or general ideas for any contest. Otherwise, we can lock this thread rather than going on a merry-go-round on the things already discussed here.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #630888
    Madam Vandana,
    Since there is no other editor present in this thread to give their view, and as you are not ready to reveal the names of juries, I am sure that this contest was not judged by many but only one ME, and must have been seconded by few, I am sure.

    I do not know whether Saji was a part or not a part. I am sure he is not a part.

    No life without Sun

  • #631115
    Since further suggestions are not forthcoming, this thread is being locked now. Points & cc have been credited to everyone's entry.
    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)


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