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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Sabarimala crowd will be doubled up in future.

    Members,
    Today, while I was buying vegetable in a shop in Bengaluru, I heard this news through his transistor. Supreme court has cleared the way for all females of all age to go on a pilgrimage to Sabari Hills. By this, the Sabari hills will be crowded with both genders. It will be doubled or tripled with married and unmarried women.

    What is your good comment about the SC verdict? Will our Lord Ayyappa be happy to see all his female devotees at his shrine? Will there be any adverse effect on this earth, especially the southern states of India?
  • #642636
    As of now the Ayyappa devotees were taking deeksha and going to the temple during Makara Jyothi and the house holds would be helping them in daily rituals and puja. Now that the court has cleared the way for even women of all ages can go to the temple, that would be the great news as Ayyappa Bhakts can now go with their own family and have the darshan of all other temples en route. But how the Dewasom is going to accept the court verdict as it is against the agama shashtra of that temple to allow females above 10 years of age. Nevertheless for comman man it is good news.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #642650
    I like how you have made us connect with your day and how you came to know about a significant development, through a transistor.

    So, what do you think of this move or rather the judgement of the Supreme Court? Is it good for the community, in general? What is the feedback that you have received, from family, friends and the vegetable vendor? Do you support it?

    I do not know the significance of the Sabari Malai temple. In fact, I heard about the actual Sabari Malai temple, for the first time, only after I got married. There is one in Delhi too, and I thought that was the pilgrimage point that people were going to.

    I think it is a significant judgement made by the Honourable Supreme Court. Women should be given equal rights. It is all about equality, in the true sense.

    The discrimination that existed against women was bad. I am also against triple talaq and all the other atrocities that women face.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #642655
    I don't welcome the supreme court's verdict. I am against it. The chief aim of visiting Sabari hills is not to get the blessings of the Lord, but for the betterment of the male individuals on the name of Sabari visit. Men undergo 41 days fast prior to their move to the Sabari hills. They have regular bath, avoid non-veg food, give up drinking and smoking, and keep away from the sexual pleasure. Such activities for 41 days, helps the individual to maintain their health. It is like an annual maintenance to keep our body fit and perfect. By chanting the words 'Swamiye Saranam Ayyappa" for 41 days helps to keep our mind fresh. They dress up in one colour to feel that they are one with no feeling of rich and poor.

    Let us treat a temple shrine as holy, not like a picnic spot.

    I am sure, permitting females, especially the youth ladies will not do any good. And the sanctity and glory of the Sabari shrine would be lost forever. If the ladies go on fast for 41 days, what would they do during their mensuration periods?

    There are many Hindu temples that don't permit males with their upper wear, and don't permit ladies with their salwar Kameez. They insist ladies to wear traditional sarees. First we should try to bring in changes in these temple rules and regulations, before we jump onto Sabari Hills.

    A bachelor Lord is only for the men worship, not for women. It is the Lord's wish that he doesn't want to marry, and doesn't want to see youth ladies in his shrine. One should read and understand the History of Lord Sri Ayyappa . Supreme court should have ordered to maintain status quo.

    No life without Sun

  • #642657
    Yes, you seem to be right on those points, but the same arguments would have been presented before the Honourable Supreme Court as well. The highest court of the country takes into account all aspects before coming up with a decision and the same rule must have been applied to this case too.

    Who are these women who want to break away from tradition and start something new? Are they not Hindus – then why do they not understand and respect the sanctity of religious beliefs. No doubt they must be modern women, for the traditional ones would not dare to think about such blasphemous behaviour. Why did the court support them?

    If a woman's monthly cycle is the only problem then you must know that women take hormonal medicine to delay their menstruation so they can participate in special havans and pujas. I am talking about Hindu women – I have had friends who popped these pills, so they could perform pujas without a problem.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #642663
    It is nothing but the curiosity of the modern women to know what exactly is the shrine. There are mosques where women are denied entry. In many Hindu temples, women are not permitted entry into the Karpagraha(The room where idol is placed) while the men can enter with special permission.

    Equality is the word that changes the tradition and culture by the modern women.

    No life without Sun

  • #642668
    Absolutely, let us blame the modern women for everything. You will find a lot of supporters. I think women must have always wanted the freedom to choose, to live life their way, to experience things, but they were prevented and controlled by a patriarchal society. They did not want their tribe to grow. So, they shackled the women and took away all their freedom.

    The new age woman, with all her freedom, feels liberated and fights for her rights. The rights that were taken away from her, rights that she has been deprived of. Men have always been intimidated by women, especially strong women and they use their muscle power to control them. Which is not about equality - it is fear that makes men boss over women and wanting to control them.

    In the last few decades, women have shown tremendous progress because they became liberated from the shackles of traditions. Men, on the other hand, remain where they were. It is fear that I see in men when they find fault with women's liberation.

    Let the gods decide what is to be done. Will they not take action if what he forbade (forbids) is not followed? Let them decide and take action, why are men getting perturbed at what a god will think.

    The current discussion is about a particular temple. Why shift focus on what is not being practised somewhere else. that is another topic.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #642673
    Though the current topic is about a particular shrine, my question is why not women permitted into other places of worship down the hill. Supreme court should think about it before passing a judgement on the uphill shrine. We should move from low to high, not to fall from high to low.
    No life without Sun

  • #642713
    I do feel that the Supreme Court has erred in its judgement. The highest judicial body should have taken into consideration the facts and figures before arriving at this judgement. It is not a question of equality; it is basically a question of belief. Lord Ayyappa is considered to be a bachelor and hence visiting him when you are during the periods is against the belief.

    Why should women be allowed into the sanctum santorum if the belief says otherwise? Why aren't Muslim ladies allowed into the main mosque? And why should Christian ladies cover their head during the prayer session?

    Sabarimala is a sacred place and let not anyone intervene.

    'Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance'. - George Bernard Shaw.

  • #642737
    In many societies and cultures there is a distinction between the rights of a woman in comparison to the man. All sorts of rights, right from working out to visiting a shrine. These are the culminations of a long interval in history where women were thought to be inferior to men in many respects and were allotted only a certain type of soft or serving job and in reality the males ruled the Earth. As this remained in the societies for a long time it became a law of that particular culture and any attempt to change it was seen with anguish and warning that it may bring wrath of the Gods.

    These rules were not made by Gods, they were made by the religious leaders or clergymen who always advocated for the superiority of men over women and took hidden and unseen help of the Gods in the matter!

    Now with modernisation and progress of science coupled with education and technology available to men and women equally, the women are coming out of their closets and logically asking for equal share in the resources available on this mother Earth. What is wrong in their demand?

    Tomorrow if some security and safety officer says that mountaineering is a risky sport and women should not be allowed to climb mountains, is it agreeable? They are already piloting the jets which are flying far above those mountains.

    In the name of religion we are indirectly telling them that you are inferior and can not visit here or there due to cultural issues. Has she kept the offsprings in her womb for 9 months and taken all pains just to hear such denials and restrictions from the male part of those offsprings?

    The world is changing and male chauvinism is going to slowly fade away till it meets its own death.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #642743
    I am not very happy with the court's verdict on this particular issue. The judgement is against the feelings of the devotees of the Ayyappa. Anyhow even though court allowed the ladies also to visit the temple, many people who have believed in the rules and regulations of the temples and who have their own customs may not prefer to visit this temple. At the same time going to the temple is not easy and a lot of labour is required. There is no bus or train to go up. So under these conditions, I don't feel many people will not prefer ladies to go with them there. Even women also may not prefer, except a few.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #642751
    The wonder is - Females who have not attained puberty and women who have completed their menopause are already permitted to visit the shrine. The hitch is with the youth women with mensuration. Lord Ayyappa is not a God of olden days. He sat on the Sabari hills during the period of Panthala King's rule. It was the Lord's request to the Panthala King that youth ladies should not visit his shrine. This was followed by the king and his followers till date. That should be honoured by the present public. Supreme court Judges should not try to over rule the system in practice.
    No life without Sun

  • #642756
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    No life without Sun

  • #642785
    This topic is widely discussed here and elsewhere. The main point coming up is traditional belief and present attititude.
    In no temple a restriction of this type exist. Since here in Sabarimala such a restriction came into force because of the conditions involved in the temple visit. This temple is not kept open on all days. Only limited number of days it is opened for devotees. During Mandala season and for Makara vilakku. Makara vilakku generally falls on 14 th January. 41 days prior to this the devotees start preparing, following certain rituals. Daily morning they take bath and major food in the night will be avoided. Only vegetarian food will be taken. Brahmacharyam will be practised. All these are applicable and possible only for men. In the case of women between the age from ten to fifty or more there will be a break during this forty five days, since menstruation is to take place. That was the main reason to deny the temple entry to women in olden days.
    However, these days nobody, except those who follow strictly the traditional practices, undergo these rituals. Just within one or two days they get ready and visit the temple and come back. Hence there is nothing wrong if ladies are also allowed to visit like that.
    More over, even without this restriction, generally ladies will stay back from visiting any temple during the mensuration time. In Kerala most of them strictly follow this, as far as I know.

    T.M.Sankaran
    Gold Member ISC

  • #642787
    Irrespective of the Supreme Court order, I think 99% Hindu ladies won't visit Sabarimala Temple or any other temples during those five days. Those ultra-modern ladies who would visit temples at this stage would do it by hiding this phenomenon from others.

    This is my personal opinion. No offense meant to anyone.

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.

  • #642789
    Saji,

    "Why aren't Muslim ladies allowed into the main mosque? And why should Christian ladies cover their head during the prayer session?"

    Questioning the religious practices followed by another religion is not a valid argument to put forward in this case. If women in these communities want changes they will ask for them. What is the relevance of bringing them into the discussion here? How does it strengthen the case? Is this a fight in support of women's right – are we taking up the cudgels in support of women? It does not appear to be the case.

    To me, it appears that you're drawing parallels and want some kind of parity, in how women of all religions are treated. If Muslim women folk cannot enter mosques, why allow Hindu women to break tradition. How different is this from 'where were the liberals when…'

    Let us not forget that it is women from the Hindu community who have fought for this change. Do they not know their religion? Accusing the Supreme Court as having erred and doubting that due diligence wasn't done in this case, is akin to casting aspersions on the integrity of highest court of the land.

    #Umesh your response puts everything into perspective.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak" - Michael Garrett Marino

  • #642946
    In my earlier comment, I mentioned that despite the Order of the Supreme Court, no Hindu lady (except the rootless, ultra-modern ones) would visit the Sabarimala Temple or any other Temple on those days when they are having inconveniences. I think I was correct. The "Ready To Wait" campaign has again stressed this. They campaigners have stated the following in a statement:
    "We decided to declare our devotion for Swami Ayyappa and tell the world that we, the women devotees of Sabarimala, know well how to speak, how to express our opinion. We said that we do not need any alien feminists imported from Lutyens Delhi to dictate to us how to live our lives following the traditions of our land and culture. Our only strength was our unconditional devotion to Lord Ayyappa."

    My salute to this devotees!

    Non-violence is the greatest Dharma; So too is all righteous violence.


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