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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Is astrology a science?

    There are hundreds of thousands of people who believe in astrology. This has even taken the turn of having earrings in a particular colour or even wearing pants and shirts in particular colours. Even rings on fingers are in particular colours that are supposed to bring all luck.

    Will this work? What is the reasoning, if any behind such blind belief in some star, and all its complications, if we jolly well know that only hard work, passion and sincerity are the code words for success?

    What then, is astrology all about? The guys in the profession are simply minting money. But is it really worth it? Are we wasting too much time doing something that is not scientific?

    Are our beliefs being sold unnecessarily? What are the views of members?
  • #644228
    Yes astrology is derived from ancient science through which planet locations and moments are calculated and based on which the fate of the person born on that star would be decided. Many may not believe but it is the fact. Can you imagine the almanac has been prepared for future too and the predictions of planets and their dates are exactly as mentioned in the almanac. What it signifies. Astrology is the science , and it is widely followed and believed. For example there is a period called Chadraashtamam that means the moon coming on the 8th place of the Raasi- that means just opposite to that. Surely that two and half days period would tricky, challenging and yet one would recover from the setbacks as soon as the period is over. What that means , every fortnight God wants to give a testing time to mend our ways.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #644229
    Today it is unanimously agreed upon all the astronomers and scientists of the world that astrology....is not a science. Well, it was, until 400 years ago. Astrology studies how planets and constellations assign and align themselves. Astronomy though has clearly busted the bubble of astrology. We can...land on the planets that astrology worships, breaking the divinity. There is now a concrete proven explanation for every celestial astronomical event. We know that observable universe is 45 billion light years across. We know that milky way alone houses a billion stars with trillion planets among which half a million are life-supporting.
    Still believing in astrology is baseless. We have far crossed the limitations of celestial bodies at this point.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644235
    It is a science only. But the theory involved is not known to many. Actually, it is a science related to the moment planets and a comparison between the position of these planets at the time of birth of a particular individual and their position as of now. Based on this the happenings going to happen will be predicted. There are people who exactly predict the findings. I know some persons who predict the happening to a correctness of hours also. But such people are very rare. The people who don't know the subject correctly trying to predict the happenings is making the real problem. The subjects what we don't know can't be treated as myths. There are many things in this universe which we don't know. We can' t say they are baseless. We need not argue with people who don't believe in this science and we need not call people who believe in this science as orthodox. A person who doesn't understand physics can't say it is absurd. Same is the case in this particular science also.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #644275
    Scientifically speaking, Astrology can not be categorised as science. This is only a knowledge thing based on certain observations by some of our intelligent ancestors made with naked eyes about the position of celestial bodies especially the stars in the sky and the repetition of these positions on yearly basis.

    They also observed that on the backdrop canvass of these stars the planets appeared to move from one place to other more specifically to say from one constellation to other.

    After making these observations they somehow related it to the position of planets and constellation at the time of the birth of the individual.

    There were two school of thoughts in this field, one based on the western mythologies while the other on eastern that is our mythology.

    So authenticity and precision of this method related to one's life and luck is nothing more than conjecturing.

    There are many things in this world which belong to this category. For example palmistry is also a similar area. Even homeopathic system of medicines is considered by some people in this category.

    Pure science is also in a continuous evolutionary state but it is accepted by many due to its logical and rational approach backed by confirmation with practicals.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #644291
    No, astrology is not a conventional or known science. But belief can't be justified by science.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #644293
    If one believes what NASA and other agencies put out for our consumption as science, then we can say astrology and palm-reading and fortune cookies are more likely to be truthful than science-so-called.

    It is very interesting to see how many people are being willingly ignorant of what is in front of them, and become dumb-on-purpose (as Dr. Kent Hovind quotes).

    Take for example recent discoveries is astronomy. They spotted a star or planet being cannibalised (note the attention grabbing nature of term used). All they sould see was a speck of light on their screen which faded a bit or lit up a bit more. The rest is basically developed with an ever fertile imagination. What is supposed to be happening is like a huge distance away and nothing in the telecsopes and instruments show up large. All we are presented with are artists concept of what is happening there. No real photo evidence, only computer generated image overlays, all conveniently colored and attractive.

    The distances they talk about is millions and billions of LIGHT YEARS, which means the distance traveled at the speed of light for all those millions and billions of years. You can imagine the number of zero's that follow such distance described.

    Yet, on our earth, we have not dug into the ground 9 miles of the 4000 miles of depth possible.

    Take any report of scientific discovery like the one of cannibalised planet or any other one on far out astronomical items. The report is loaded with vague words such as probable, possible, estimated, could be, understood to be, we think, likely, not sure but needs further study, etc. and often end with 'this might cause scientist to rethink the issue from what we thought it to be before.…' or equivalent words.

    Search online on "timeline of the far future" and you will get those fantastic and highly concocted predictions, where they use a number followed by 3000-4000 zero's for a time spot in the far future. How can one believe this, and at the same time debunk what is predicted in the old scripture books like in Bible and others?

    The wikipedia page gives a summary of the far future timeline. Notice how many of the vague words are shown in this summarized list.

    Notice how the distant nebulae, gas clouds, look exactly like what you see when you dip color markers in colored water in a glass tank. The nebulous shapes and colors are so similar. Add a few sparkle dust for more effect.

    Notice how all these discoveries are always outside our universe and so far away that most people will have no idea of it unless they join the bandwagon of elite scientists.

    Notice how they work hard to remove any iota of acknowledging the presence of God to whom mankind is answerable.

    Notice how these discoveries keep getting financial grants for further research and discovery.

    Notice the application of Hitler's idea 'if you tell a lie, then tell a big lie' and how we howl at evil Hitler of 1939-45 while swallowing his doctrine all our lives.

    We got to appreciate the scientific people for their ingenuity to earn a livelihood, and keep the money flowing and employing a large number of people.

    The old astrology and other things that are mocked today are more honest and more accurate then the science-so-called. They don't lie outright like this.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #644484
    Bala what you say is incorrect. Ever heard of spectroscopy? The way you say all nebulae look the same is kinda funny. Nebulae formed from hydrogen and oxygen are bound to look in a pinkish greenish hue. Astronomy isn't ridiculous. The way we view it is. You think that every thing about outer space is an assumption?
    We have telescopes catching infrared and microwaves. That means that the stars are at unimaginable distances. But you can view them. First-hand. You and I can't view infrared. So this is converted into visible spectrum that we can see. So most objects in space look the same because they are mere clones of what they actually are. Sun is white. But you view it yellow. The same principle here more or less.
    Refraction and scattering.

    Astronomy makes sense. It's a pure science.
    And what does bible even have to do with astrology? Astrology is clearly a pagan science. The moment one announces that astrology is legit, that would mean that multiple divinities exist, which clearly defies bible. How can bible explain celestial bodies like Jupiter and Saturn which other cultures worship? Planets are gods in astrology. The moment you say bible patronizes anything remotely close to astrology, you lose my confidence.

    This is not a theological debate. I'm merely stating the facts. I'm merely trying to explain why space looks the way it does.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644488
    I think authors are making fun of our astrology quoting the contents appearing on the internet just to abuse the Indian science of astrology. They believe or not, what is calculated, predicted and foreseen long back are happening and that itself a great invention. Now tell me those who arguing in favor of modern science by sidelining the astrology, when the full moon eclipse occur next time on the earth without referring to the records. But Indians pundits can predict the happening with accurate calculations. Do you know even various stars movement which decides the fate of a person on daily basis is just based on 9 planets moments and out if Moon is the deciding factor. I am posing the straight question to challengers as to mention about the eighth place of Moon on every ones raasi which brings challenging situation of loss and sadness. Is it not the fact ?
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #644530
    I like astronomy, it is a wonderful and awe-inspiring subject. What I am against is the lies latched on to astronomy which give a false spin on the truth. Today, the bulk of knowledge comes from the self-appointed professor NASA and ESA and a host of related institutions. Just check around the net and you'll find a lot of info pointing to the fakery in astronomy.

    All those stars and galaxies and nebulae and all are fine and part of science. Scriptures say they are there for 'times and seasons'. The masala is added by these institutions that have a great addiction to zero's and they paste it on everything in astronomy to make it look ridiculous. The nebulae definitely look like the random design/shape you get when you stick color markers in liquid, and this is pushed out to us by these institutions of disinformation. You should definitely try it out for yourself and see the similarities. They are not actual photos taken by Hubble or Spitzer or Chandra or any other telescopes, arrays and reflectors but artwork using imagination and graphics, or something like the colors in liquid in a see-through tank.

    There are celestial bodies that being denied by these people, but we do see some strange things that don't match what we are told. Raghu and Kethu are examples regarding eclipses.

    Not one of those huge time periods described can be repeated as is required to be science. These are all theories, thought experiments and so on. Basically they are a matter of faith. Why believe in science religion and at the same time debunk other beliefs that is based on scriptures? Do you think these are facts and true when not provable?

    The calculations in this form of astronomy goes awfully wrong because the figures consider the speed of light to be the same throughout the millions and billions of years. It is not so, and the speed changes depending on the medium it passes through.

    It is like finding a set of bones/fossils. Looking at it, all one can tell for sure is that the animal died. There is no proof it ever had children or brother/sister or even if it was able to reproduce. One has to put together a whole lot of analysis and imagination (often plagiarized from other imaginators) to add more body parts, add skin, add family members, add other animal/bird to cohabit there in their abode, background scenery, and a compelling story to go along with this creation to sell the thesis. The same thing applies in astronomy too. Find something out there, buff it up well and enjoy the profits of productivity.

    Do try to take a look into the "timeline of the far future". It might change your outlook.

    NASA runs most of the major space telescopes. NASA is also part of the US military. Considering the fact they have military units in some 150 countries, for whatever supposedly good purposes, do you believe the astronomical info given out is all true and real? Compare this with the Bible scriptures (not religious writings) and you'll find one set is geared by God to helping and teaching mankind to be peaceable, and the other set doing everything to deny the existence of God and to everything God stands for.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #644536
    My friend Bala, look, science cannot work without assumptions. We cannot work without assumptions. I am saving money assuming that I would live long enough to form my own family. Science also assumes some basis thats all. Without science we would be much much ignorant.
    Rahu and Keethu though regarded as planets or navagrahas, they are not naked eye objects. Or wait! ! Our ancestors knew that Venus crosses the Sun. It's called a transit. They also knew that all planets have transits. Eclipses...are just transits at a large scale...so large that they cover the Sun or the moon. Rahu and Keethu could have been planets, causing this transit (eclipse) which weren't visible to naked eye. If my theory is right, our ancients did believe that eclipse is caused by shadows. I'm not talking about Aryabatta, he ofcourse was a person who knew how eclipses formed. Astronomy is there to fill gaps in astrology. Astrology is the study of what you can see. Astronomy is the study of what you could "see". Haven't Voyager satellite travelled to the end of the solar system? Isn't that a true fact?

    When we believed in astrology, we saw Saturn with telescope. Today with satellite imaging we can see the same. The appearance from earth and in the deep space aren't much different. Then NASA apparently isn't lying.
    Satellites can only go so far. That is why we have telescopes, to guage literally astronomical distances through the Doppler shift, the frequency/wavelength of light emitted by a body. With such advancements we can see across half of the observable universe, half of the 45 billion light years!!!

    There is no reason to doubt NASA or astronomy. They are just confirming what astrology assumes.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644537
    To be honest I find this topic GD worthy. Let us see if editors feel the same. Because it looks it we clearly have supporters for both astronomy and astrology. This would make a very interesting topic to debate about then.
    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644539
    This is the sad reality of our society that just because science is difficult to understand people would rather take the words of some pseudo-scientists or mythological scriptures which talk about the weirdest things you can think of. Do you know Bible mentions Unicorns multiple times but not once mentions cats?

    Science is truthful because it is independently verifiable. It scientists don't know anything or they don't have full data they are honest about it and put disclaimers like "needs further study". This is in high contrast to religious claims which are absolutely true only until they are proven wrong by science.

    To put Bala's idea of truth in perspective, he is a guy who thinks that earth is flat, the earth is 6000 years old, evolution is false and much more garbage that just spoils the value of an educational portal. I don't have the patience nor the time to waste to argue against just absurd claims but for the profit of others just wanted to put few things in light.

  • #644606
    The astrology is the study of the movements and relative positions of celestial bodies interpreted as having an influence on human affairs and the natural world. Our body is so made that if you have to understand the world then study your body & its functions. The ways in which the celestial bodies or the planets are arranged is responsible for beginning & the ending of an era. This got the direct impact on our bodies & so its more scientific to its nature.

  • #644607
    Our past has been consisted of the rich heritage & full of discoveries that during that period no-one would have knew about those. We were the proven leaders of the world once but now a days we only believe those things which the NASA of USA discovers as a fact. If we remember than we were the one who discovered the benefits of turmeric but now the this got the patent by the USA.

  • #644628
    @Ved,
    Please don't give half baked information. The patent was revoked soon after being granted.
    "the US Patent Office acknowledged it had made a mistake and cancelled the patent on turmeric." - Ref: https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/science-and-technology/story/19970908-patents-india-wins-a-victory-over-turmeric-but-the-war-is-on-832438-1997-09-08

  • #644647
    Thanks Ankit, I wanted to put in the flat earth line in somewhere but it seemed off-topic. Yes, flat earth is real, and earth got created around 6000 years ago, not 1600. Now you can see it every time I write anything here. Enjoy!

    Will be back.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #644678
    Thanks Bala for verifying your unscientific views. I have corrected the false age of earth in my response.

  • #644685
    @ Ankit, thanks for the update here.

  • #644686
    AB Sivakumar ji,
    Astrology is not supported by Science. It can be considered as divinitory art.Science can't support the belief in divine, mystical relationships etc. Science talks about facts and proofs.
    I like astrology. It is fun.
    We all are human. We all have our fondness for esoteric mystery. Problem is that we are thinking in terms of our belief. We consider astrological predictions are not correct still we take it as serious, sometimes.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #644688
    Neeraj Ji, I agree with you. I have seen some predictions come very true. I really do not know how this is possible. When I question the concerned person, he or she would simply say that the astrologer is a very skilled person. What is this skill, they do not explain clearly.

    However, it is still a norm to compare horoscopes before marriage. The matching of horoscopes is a big custom in most Hindu families not only in Tamil Nadu, am told, but in most of India. I still do not know how the predictions are made. There are cases where the marriage was arranged but no horoscope was even seen on either side. When asked to explain such instances, those who believe so much in astrology simply say that it is because of some planet position in their horoscope even without seeing the horoscope.

    One is really confused, but astrology is a big mystery. I also tend to agree with members that it is not a science. If it is divine, as most people believe, that is a hugely different ball game altogether.

  • #644695
    Astrology is partly a science. It is a holy man theory having the 9 planets and 27 stars as the base connected with astronomy. Lord Subramanya is the God who taught astrology to saint Agasthiar through a divine power. The astrologers of the past had good wisdom and knowledge and were able to predict the future through the horoscope of an individual. I don't like or hate astrology.
    No life without Sun

  • #644719
    Let me just scribble a few things on this subject. We are always confusing science and modern science. We are actually using the term "Sasthra", originated from Sanskrit language. The same word is used to translate "Science", the English word. Our Sasthra is pretty old and all our knowledge is based on the dictum in Sasthra. What the Sasthra says is not questioned. Astrology is one such knowledge. Palmistry is also coming there. The Sasthra got developed from experience.
    The modern science is very young compared to Sasthra, may be about 500 years.
    In modern science the growth based on questioning . Falsification is possible there. Newton was corrected by Einstein. There a theory can be proved right any number of time. Once it is disproved the theory becomes wrong. This approach leads to new inventions.

    T.M.Sankaran
    Gold Member ISC

  • #644756
    I agree with #644719 that the Shastra, originated from Sanskrit is old science. Modern science is derived from Shastra. Astrology is also derived from Shastra.
    Astrology is a prediction tool, I believe. Predictions are failing because of want of more data. As computers become more advanced, we could collect more data. There is a 'Big Data' revolution. A future event can be predicted with 'Big Data'. I understand, there is a startup called PredPol in US, has developed a software tool for the police that help their patrol time effectively. Police departments in US,UK and Canada are using this software and they are claiming that they reduced crime rate by 30%.In the same fashion, If data of people's personality can be collected over a long period of time in relations to the planets positions, astrology may be workable. I am not sure.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #644780
    A lot of things out in space that is not known. From the info already known, much is hushed up because it doesn't suit the purposes of the ones in the know. NASA people only release info that suits their divinity-devoid theories. If anything shows up to dispute that, they bury it off.

    The data collected by the Cassini probe before it crashed into Saturn shows that the rings of Saturn had no chance to be the 4.5 billion year age as they told us. It showed that the rings were around 300-400 million years old. A stark contrast to the established lie. So NASA doesn't talk about this but other people did and do. Same story with the magnetic field of Saturn, and the moon Enceladus. Here the error margin is greater than 90%. No news about this from NASA.

    The Mars Rover happened to experience a sandstorm. After the storm, NASA pictures show a nice and clean looking Rover, raising the question on who dusted off the Rover. The 'image' quality was good enough to zoom and see it spotless.
    Recently the same Rover experienced a huge and long sandstorm. One should be seeing a lot of dust splattered and remaining on it by the end of the storm. NASA got wise to their blunder and this time they show some brownish shade over parts of the surface, AND they made the image quality to be low, so you cannot zoom and see like before. The Rover has cavities all over, and you don't see those places layered up with dust. NASA will make sure to check this mistake next time around.

    Dark matter/missing mass supposedly takes up 85% of space, the remaining 15% is made of planets, stars, asteroids etc. this dark matter cannot be seen as yet, but scientist believe and know it is there. They will eventually find out, but now they can't explain it. If you know something is here and you operate accordingly, it sounds strikingly similar to faith and belief as attributed to religion.

    Astronomy can also be classified as a religion, especially when it comes to those far out, millions and billions of light years into future. Before hyperventilating, think about it for some time. In divine matters, one hopes and prays for and gets solutions to problems in life. Here, the scientists do the same thing and yet mock people who use faith in scriptures

    Astrology while not exactly falling under the definition of science, has a lot going for it in terms of being true compared to tottering theories of astronomy, especially the ones pushed on us by NASA. It is a shame that real astronomers who stick to what is true, even if they are not religious, get in trouble.

    Ankit, It is a sad reality of our people today that they find it hard to accept the simple love of God and his handiwork that is described in the Bible and they seek after pseudo science head-stuffing and fake religious predictions of some so-called scientists.
    Unicorns did exist, check out "Elasmotherium sibiricum". Why does the Bible have to talk about cats? If it mentioned cats, would you complain it didn't say Siamese cat?
    It is not a zoology textbook but a book for life, of history/creation, of poetry, of praise, of law, and of predictions you can count on. Some have come to pass already, if you care to check into the Book of Daniel, chapter 2.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #644795
    Bala, rings of Saturn are formed by collisions. So their accurate age determination is not easy. Every time an eruption surfaces surfaces or an impact happens, surface of an object changes. The solar system was formed 4 billion years ago, but the Saturn being huge kept attracting bodies towards it, hitting and missing, forming 3 sets of rings. NASA has actually informed that new rings keep forming all the time. The inner most rings might be the oldest. It takes time for collisions and to nicely form as rings. So yes, rings might have formed 400 million years ago, a recent development.

    Coming to magnetic fields, they get changed all the time. Mars had one few million years ago. But then it got diminished for reasons unknown. A moon is no exception. Moons cannot retain strong magnetic fields. Ganymede is the only moon known to retain its magnetic field.

    Coming to dark matter, I too have difficulties believing about it. But hedron colliders are creating Bosons. This is a new step in understanding dark matter and energy. We will catch up soon. But in theory dark matter makes sense.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644833
    For anything to be compatible with science, there are a set of rules that need to be independently verifiable. For example, an fruit will always fall down from a tree unless and external force is being applied. No matter on which part of the earth you are, this is true and is a proven concept.
    Astrology on the other hand, though has written rules, I haven't seen anybody giving a 100% assurance of their predictions. Can an astrologer predict the exact seats the ruling government in India will get in the just 2 consecutive elections? If they do, all atheists will turn believers at that point. It is human high-headedness which makes him believe that in such a vast universe the stars and planets hundreds of light years away somehow affect our future. It is difficult to believe that there is no "higher purpose" of life and that life on earth is just a co-incidence. The will to live even after life has given birth to gods and branches like Astrology.

    Bala, it is a sad reality that despite of the mass killings (Genesis 6-8, Genesis 18-19, 1 Samuel 15) of men, women and even children, torture (Genesis 2:16), incest (Genesis 19), slavery (even sexual in nature) by your dear god and his followers acting on his command or with his approval, as described in your dear book you still call him loving. The irony is so lost on people like you.

    Science is brave enough to accept when it was wrong. Open to its old theories being proved false unlike religions which claim to be true despite the facts facing them head-on.

    I am not even interested in going into your claim on Unicorns. Educated people know that truth lies not in one book but can be gathered only from multiple sources of information, with in-depth independently verifiable research and after lots of research based on scientific methods.

  • #644910
    I used to dabble in palmistry for a while, and I was surprised to find it correct on several aspects in my own life. I used to apply the sun signs/moon signs and found that to be correct about 75% of the time on the people I compared it with. Both these were having an error margin of 25% and you compare that with the evolutionary error ranges, and you can see which is more realistic. Furthermore, the human lifespan is barely 100 years and evolutionary scientists give margins of 33-67-90% margins spanning 10 the power 'x' years.

    No one has to take my word for this, you can try it yourself and probably find I am being rather generous to evolutionists.

    No astrologer can predict based on the planets being so far, far away. Perhaps they are not that far away and quite close, that enables the astrologers to predict with better accuracy. No astrologer can predict 100% correct, but God has, because he is not man, and sure as heaven he can tell it 100% correct.

    None of the astronomical science is provable by repetition or verifiable. It is always a speculation, and truly the theory of yesterday gets busted today, and the process goes on. "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth", as Paul says.

    Ankit, did you pick those chapters from the net or did you actually read those 4 chapters? You selected such easy to defend chapters!
    God is a very kind and loving – that is his nature. If he has to get angry to destroy mankind, one can imagine the wickedness that was going on by the people of that time/place.
    And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:5

    Noah worked on the Ark for 120 years, a time long enough for people to hear about and know why old Noah was doing this unheard of thing. People would have traded with Noah for the timber and pitch and ropes etc. Manual labor definitely got employed to build that boat. In spite of all these things, the people didn't seek to follow God, and the flood followed. Would you think the people were ignorant of what was happening?

    Same thing in Gen 18-19. “But before they lay down, the men of the city, [even] the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter” Gen 19:4. Abraham knew the angels had come to destroy the cities on that area. He bargained heavily. If 50 good people were found, then the angels will not destroy the places. Then 45, 40, 30, 20 and finally 10. Lot and his wife who were in the line of fire sent word to their children and others to flee but they didn't take the freedom option. Lot and wife + 2 daughters were told to go up to the mountains, but he again bargained and went to Zoar and thus spared that city. Does that make God a softie? They couldn't find 10 good folks in all places.

    Adam and Eve's children would have definitely married amongst themselves to produce their children. It wasn't an issue as it would take several generation of such pairing for the genes to become defective. Same thing after the flood. Around the time of Moses this consanguineous pairings were banned. But you are aware some communities around India and in many parts of the world people keep doing it anyway.

    The science community does not expose fake scientists. They just hush up the matter. Or they give Nobel Prize to shore up the reputation of their favored genius. Bible is a book of truth. It puts everything down about its famous people their good and bad deeds as such, without cover up. Every one of the known Bible characters got exposed. Does you NASA infested community dare to?

    The unicorn is not going disappear because you don't want to see it. You are an astute guy. Why do want to walk away like a fake atheist?

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #644924
    Bala what made a little sense in the beginning, doesn't anymore now. I really appreciated how you brought out rovers, rings and etc to support your argument. Those were on point. Really strong counter arguments actually. But unicorn? Actually unicorns are horned horses. No where in the ancient world we see mentions of a flying horned horse. Just horned horses were what unicorns were. Probably the rhinoceros of Africa and Asia.
    Ancients who never came across these animals could have very well thought they were horned horses. Today with DNA sequencing we have solid proof that rhinoceros are evolutionary cousins of horses, so indeed, the most realistic unicorns.

    And time after time I asked one thing. What is Bible doing here when we are arguing about astrology? Bible itself denies the presence of any celestial diety as it would challenge the monotheistic belief. So bringing bible in is both futile and irrelevant.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #644925
    Bala,
    Making your own cover-up stories is not a good habit but that is what believers all around the world do.
    "I will destroy from the earth the people I have created. And with them, the animals, birds, and creeping things" (Genesis 6:5–7).
    How can children be corrupted? Noah and only his family were saved but no children of any other family. Where children barely able to walk, talk or understand not righteous? I don't see the Bible God saving them. A normal human would have more compassion to make sure that those innocent beings were spared. And no, people didn't have the option to board Noah's Ark. The covenant was established only with Noah and for his family, no one else.

    Gen 18-19 - Again, didn't the village had any kid?

    And I see you comfortably skipped other instances of incest - Lot and his daughters (Genesis 19), Exodus 6:20, 2 Samuel 13 and Genesis 20:12

    Scientist community is a community of high competition for recognition of their work. Disapproving previous theories are far too common in all branches of science. If that is not uncovering fake scientist then what is?

    Believers just don't want to accept that their fairy tale book is wrong and make excuses and their own theories to keep their beliefs alive. Not many centuries have gone by when people of science were burnt on the stake for rejecting the superiority of Bible. I haven't heard any scientist asking for the death of a believer just because they don't believe that earth is round or that Evolution is true.

    What is required for all is to first make a baseline for what you are ready to believe and what you need for that? If anything that that disproves your fairy tale book is to be shunned by cover-up stories there is no point to debate or discuss.

    Astrology is not at all a science. Various studies conducted have shown proved time and again. Studies performed have proved that predictions made by Astrologers are nothing better than what are easily made by novices. I have seen Astrologers making predictions and a few common things you will always find them saying are:
    1. You are in a struggling phase of life but it will be better soon enough.
    2. Soon you are going to do better in job/business.
    3. Your relationships are soon going to go better.
    4. To a married couple - You are going to have a healthy baby
    5. To a old couple - You have been saved by his/her presence in life.

    Basically say all the high probability things that even someone with no knowledge of Astrology can tell. Even if 2-3 things out of the 10 comes true for 2-3 out of 10 people that makes sure your reputation is saved because we as a society have a tendency to share our good things, happenings which make us proud and hide the things which we think will make people pity us or be looked down on.

    Also have a look at the Meta-analysis done on Astrology:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science#Other_tests

  • #644930
    This discussion will not lead to any conclusion. Several times by several people the same discussion had taken place without leading to any conclusion.
    However, I am happy that Science and its product technology are helping us to discuss sitting at different places. All people throughout the world are fully dependent on science and technology for their daily living. Those who speak against science and scientific thoughts use its products like TV, Radio, telephone, social media, etc. What a contradiction !!

    T.M.Sankaran
    Gold Member ISC

  • #644931
    Astrology is a science but, we should not take it for own life. We see horoscope for the bride and bridegroom, fix marriage if 10 points are matching. But, are all marriages successful ?
    We wear rings based on colors for our star and planet in order to over come the bad time. Are we happy?
    We also keep names for our babies according to their rashi and star letters believing that the kids will shine in future. Are they leading a successful life and career?
    Mohammed of Ghazni was defeated 16 times and invaded Somnathpur temple on the 17 time and plundered all the wealth. His hard work only gave victory to him.
    HARD WORK DEFINITELY BRINGS SUCCESS.

  • #644956
    In ancient times, myths were mixed with science. For calculation purpose, entire space divided into different zodiacal zones. By observing the motion of celestial bodies, Egyptian priests were identified the time interval of Earth's cataclysmic and extinction cycles. For example inundations (Flood), fires from meteorites, extinction and re origination etc. According to their calculations a great deluge will happen when the star Regulus of the Leo enters the first minute of the Cancer. They mentioned the positions of Sun, Moon and other planets at the time of that event. We all know that the great flood was mentioned in almost all religious books of the world. Meteorite crash and consequent fire will happen when the star Regulus enters the last minute of the fifteenth degree of Leo. Modern science also agrees with the flood myth by tracking the temperature of the planet Earth (Younger dryas hypothesis)
    But how the planets affects the human consciousness is a mystery.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #645003
    Real science does not lie. Fake science, like the one polluted by NASA for example, deceives and there be many who willingly swallow it very much the same way they accuse believers of accepting Creation of Bible description. Both form come under belief/faith. Almost everything in astronomy is linked with unverifiable time periods wherein it takes faith to accept, and that is being religious, no matter how one tries to deny it.

    Ankit, you sounded like you wouldn't return to this thread, so I left out something for you to pick and throw at me.

    Gen 19:32 …that we may preserve seed of our father – Lot's daughter wanted to continue their family line. It says clearly there. Incest and other forms of consanguinity gets banned at the time of Moses.
    2 Sam 13 describes a guy perverting established rules of Moses. These things still happen today and it has nothing to do with any religion as such.
    Gen 20:12 shows marrying close relatives creates situation of being a wife and sister at the same time. Abraham used the option to pre-empt trouble.

    As for God destroying children, did you know children are the responsibility of parents? If parents put their children in harm's way being aware of the danger, the finger points at parents, not God. Think about it. I wondered about it too, but then I realized he is not evil and I can trust him for that.

    People burning science people for not bowing to Bible are not Bible following people, they are just crooks in priest clothes or rulers using Bible as excuse to get rid of enemies. A true believer would not resort to such extremes. It is really tough to be a believer, Jesus calls to forgive enemies. But there are many, many thousands of believers who were killed for their belief in Jesus, right from the time of Jesus life onward. I am sure you heard that.

    Your points 1,2 and 3 are basic standard encouragement any coach or counselor would use, and to the receiver who has been bullied or humiliated much would take courage because it is always possible to do so. If some people use astrology or religious text it is still good. Look at what the NASA science tell/don't tell: they don't share what they know about celestial bodies and info, and only release crumbs to lead the masses along like a with a carrot-stick-in-front-of-donkey. It is easy to deceive people like that, and that includes info on flat earth.

    You didn't want to look up the unicorn, and I wonder if you looked up the timeline of the far future. It would make you question your own understanding of truth. See if your some of your fake science stands up to your questioning. I did with the Bible and so did others, and it still stands good.

    Aditya Mohan, good thing you checked out unicorns. The ancient scriptures of holy books will keep coming into the picture because they stand up against the fake aspects of science (note not all science is bad/wrong). Most of fake science is easily recognized by the huge numbers and humongous values they use to pad up the lie. The false science is fully at work to eliminate the presence of God and his creation. The pride of man refuses to acknowledge God and does anything and everything to deny the fact. There are scientists who accept God or whatever term they use and do those things scientists do. NASA is one top fake agent. Institute for Creation Research is a place for finding science fakeries.

    Neeraj has recognized the worldwide flood narrative of Noah's time. That flood is something that proves the presence of God and the fake scientists and atheists hate it.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #645025
    Members are requested to get back to astrology and science and leave aside Bible for the time being. Drawing a connect in between is fine but please stick to the main topic of discussion.
    'Our knowledge is a receding mirage in an expanding desert of ignorance'- Will Durant.

  • #645028
    The discussion is becoming more and more complex. What is the relationship between a unicorn (an imaginary animal) and scientific aspect of astrology? Do you think astrology a science? If yes, give evidence in support of your agreement. If not, prove it.

    Don't bother about the unicorn, Adam, Eve, Noah, etc. as asked by the Lead Editor.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #645084
    I think, the discussion here is about the influence of celestial bodies on human beings. I would like to add further in this regard
    The Sun and moon's gravitational pull results in tides on Earth. This pull is so strong that the Earth's crust is stretched daily by the tidal effects. The ocean on the side of the Earth facing the moon gets pulled up towards the moon more than the Centre of the planet. This creates high tide. On the other side of the Earth, another high tide occurs, because the center of the Earth is being pulled towards the moon more than the ocean on the far side.
    In large lakes tides are extremely minor. But gravitational effect is there.
    That is not to say tides don't exist at smaller scale.
    Human body consists of 75% of water. What will be the effect? You can think of.
    Tides in Earth Ocean happen twice a day and Earth spins on its axis every 24 hours, bringing the moon constantly up and down in the sky. So the moon's tugging can affect the human body.
    Do you believe that?
    Effect of gravity diminishes with distance. But, never goes away. Everything in the Universe is tugging on everything else.
    @645003,
    Recognizing flood myth by science doesn't mean the proof of the existence of God. I do not know much about what is written in the Bible. There are many things in the Universe that Science can't explain today. May be explainable tomorrow. The Scientific institutions/establishments never try to cover up the facts. That notion is absolutely wrong.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #645100
    The meta-analysis done on Astrology seems to me a bit flawed so the results are questionable. The research is done entirely from within America and Europe. Didn't notice participation from Indian/other Asian country astrologers. The test done by Dean and Kelly apparently were not published ten years after this meta-analysis whose results point out astrology to be invalid. 700 astrologers together on a project would have made big news but it didn't look like it even happened except in theory. Seems astrology is also having clash with the 'science' community not much different from creation/evolution issues.

    @ 645084 – you are able to see the common points of the flood in various cultures. Science (the anti-God type) will not even look that direction. They will screw their eyes shut in case they see truth and their conscience pricks them. Nor will they accept astrology as science even though their astronomical predictions require much more faith to believe. Some science institutions do cover up facts. Don't be deceived. If you dig deep into the Dean/Kelly analysis, you will see for yourself. Ankit says the unicorn is a mythological figure, but I showed the fossil record of its presence. He doesn't want to look at that. This is how they cover up by denying.

    Perhaps the thread starter can put his final words and end this thread. We can have a new thread to discuss the tangents we had here.

    Never spend what is not yours!

  • #645113
    Bala, I would like to see those unicorn fossils. And science actually does acknowledge the great flood. Mesopotamia/Iraq and Turkey holds the evidence of such flood. It is said to have happened during the last Ice age, because obviously ice melting caused a world sized flood, some 20,000 years ago roughly. Now this was in the memory of our ancestors and civilization, though we can't pinpoint, is estimated to have developed circa 10,000 B.C. So this was a devastating blow to agrarian ancestors of humans and they told stories orally to their young ones. These stories were compiled after 3000BC. That's all there is to it.
    Last ice age is real and so was the flood.
    Humanity survived 2-3 mass extinction events until now. But this last Ice age was a fresh one in memory because it happened recently, in a geographical frame of time.

    Science doesn't deny God. It just tries to find a systematic way to observe and explain the occurrences. I mean, why shouldn't it? It's better than saying its all "God's plan". This method of viewing is much more helpful because for once we can have a brief hope that Fate is in our hands.

    The stronger a light shines the darker are the shadows around it.

  • #645117
    Bala,
    It is not that I didn't check your Unicorn claim, it is just that your selective bias is too much hypocrisy to handle. The fossils you refer to were dated 29,000 years ago and the animal is more like a hippo than a horse. Now of course your statement would be that Carbon dating is a flawed process.

    By the way, children are responsibility of a society and not just of their parents. Do we let off a parent if he/she brings harms to the child? You see how humans have better morals that your fictional friend?

    The Meta-analysis was done outside India but with majority of Indian astrologers. Again a example of your selective bias to prove your points right and others wrong.


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