|#99997 Author: Vandana Member Level: Platinum Member Rank: 5 Date: 12/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Very good question,Amaresh. We look forward to such interesting topics in the Forum to discuss.
Even I don't understand why a diploma cannot be considered important. Surely, through a diploma,like through a degree, the student is acquiring knowledge. Maybe the knowledge is not on par with the detailed studies of a degree, but at least it gives an education! I do not think diploma engineers should be considered "incapable".
Looking from the point of view of employers, it is possible that they are wary of diploma holders due to the numerous institutes that are mushrooming all over India that are not genuine. Such Institutes generally do not offer recognized courses, so perhaps that is where the problem lies. The Govt. should lay down some parameters regarding Institutes that offer diplomas - either recognize them based on their teaching quality & facilities, or impose a ban on them.
Managing Editor, IndiaStudyChannel.com
|#99999 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 12/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Engineering Diploma is the best qualification for the supervisory cadre in manufacturing units like factories and field services like PWD and CPWD. They get excellent salaries in these organizations. Nevertheless, in the current age when unemployment is at its peak, BE and BTech have also started applying for these cadres because of good pay packets.
Diploma is a 10 + 3 course where as Degree is 10 + 2 + 4 course. There are condensed coursed for BE degrees especially for Diploma holders.
As far as your question is concerned, yes for academic purposes, Engineering Diploma is considered equal to 10 + 2 and that is an injustice done to the Practical Engineers, because they are 10 + 3.
This one year added studies have to be given proper importance. The academicians and government including the employers should find-out solutions for this.
|#100056 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 12/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Being a Btech. student I personally feel that the word 'Diploma' is a misnomer among the various companies. They look for the degree holders. But the practical knowledge, the diploma students possess is unmatchable.I am calling diploma a misnomer because the more weak it looks, the more practically sound it is. I completely agree to Pawan Bahuguna here that if ever one asks a Btech. student that who possesses better knowledge, surely his finger will point towards the diploma students. During the second year of the degree when a couple of diploma students join the class, they give a setback to the regular students with their immense knowledge in that particular discipline.
The best part of doing a diploma is that one gets his base strong. Teachers start from the beginning and focuses on every minute thing.Practical knowledge imparted is also very good and from the basics to the complexity. While not the same is the case with a Btech. degree. With thousands of Engineering colleges budding up in every nook and corner of the country, the quality of degree, the infrastructure, the staff has completely deteriorated. Thus the degree is just of name. Thus degree too is a misnomer because as important it looks the more hollow it is.
It will be totally wrong to say diploma engineers as incapable instead they really possess the caliber. I would mark diploma comparable to degree.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#100076 Author: Vijay Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 12/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
Please change your category. Choose your category as Group discussions. Keep on posting. Posting must be Genuine content and Quality content.
|#100100 Author: Nadheera V Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
It is a nice topic to discuss deeply in present scenario. Most of the private sector companies in India considering 3 years diploma holders as an under graduate and offering less salary. But in foreign countries, I found many well known companies considering the candidate's practical knowledge and experience in industry other than their curriculum and providing better remuneration to their skills & hard work.
I think students from financially poor families prefer Diploma courses after their high school education. I found many brilliant and highly skilled students from lower class / middle class family are studying Diploma course after their High School. Because they need to complete a professional course and get a job to assist their family as soon as possible.
In my opinion Diploma course should consider as equivalent to 10+3 or 10+2+3 graduation other than 10+2. Diploma course covers deeply the concerned subject and provide good practical knowledge. I think a Diploma holder in computer software has more programming knowledge and skill than a B.Sc Computer Science or B.C.A graduate.
ISC Diamond Member
|#100112 Author: sucheta Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Being a T.E student i would like to say that diploma holders are not incapable,instead they are the one who is having more knowledge than BE student.Generally practical knowledge is given more preference than a bookish knowledge.A student thinking practically,will have good skills rather.
I agree to Rohit's point.during second year when diploma holders take admission in engineering,they are having more knowledge than others.
|#100121 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
In many departments in central government and in other sectors Engineering Diploma is considered as equivalent to BSc. You may watch-out for press notifications / advertisements for employment, where the qualifications requirement is specified as "BSc (MPC) or Engineering Diploma.
In some Ads the requirement may be BE or Engineering Diploma with 5-year experience in a particular level.
As far as the course is concerned, in Engineering Diploma the text books are same as BE or BTech; nevertheless, the syllabus in both the courses differ based on the length of the course, say 6 Semesters and 8 Semesters etc.
What I personally feel is that the academicians should think on the lines to make a little change in Diploma course. Following are my suggestions:
1. Qualification for admission to Engineering Diploma should be 10 + 2
2. The syllabus should also be changed like replacing the +2 portions of syllabus from the first 2 semesters with Engineering portions
3. Likewise, the syllabus for rest of the semesters should also be overall upgraded
4. The course should be conducted by the local universities under the control of the UGC and not by State Technical Education Boards
5. The courses should be renamed as BSc (Mech / Civil / etc)
Running these courses by State Boards of Technical Education does not look justified. These boards should only organize ITIs and Technical Schools like Kananiketan, Jabalpur.
|#100143 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Since I am a Doctor, I can speak of Diploma and Degrees in the Medical Profession.
Here it makes a lot of difference when you meet a Doctor who has a Diploma and a Doctor who has a Degree and also it has a lot of difference in between doctors who have a degree and a Masters Degree (MD/MS). To say more there gets in a vast difference in doctors who are having Master's degree and a Super specialty degree.
I will compare in between the D.H.M.S. (Diploma in Homoeopathic Medicine and Surgery) and B.H.M.S. (Bachelor in Homoeopathic Medicine and Surgery).
The Diploma had the subjects regarding Normal subjects in a very minimal syllabus. For example, Anatomy was covered in such a way that the student should have only the basic knowledge.
Physiology included chapters only on the basic subjects in it and higher topics like Endocrine system and Central Nervous system and the Cardio Vascular system were not covered in Diploma.
Similar was the condition in Abnormal subjects, Surgical and Obstetric and Gynecology and Subjects of Medicine.
Even in Homoeopathic Subjects, the medicines taught were only 100 in a Diploma whereas in a Degree the medicines taught are 350.
The question papers in a diploma were very simple and a very average student could also become a Homoeopathic Doctor with ease.
But not in BHMS. In fact, in Maharashtra University of Health Sciences, BHMS has the lowest results of passing.
This shows up even when we enter into practice. The main motive in having all this subjects and too in depth is the fact that we are dealing with Humans over here and this is very serious objective and we cannot enter the field with minimal knowledge.
Already the knowledge gained by a student is hampered a lot by the standards of teaching, at least in India. This will effectively infer that a Diploma Doctor is no better than a 12th standard pass out student.
Earlier, it was allowed that a 10th standard pass out student could enter diploma in Homoeopathy, but as the education system matured, they understood the bad effects of this system and prompt changes were done.
|#100148 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Further, I have observed my friend who went for his Diploma in engineering and then I have seen him going through his degree and then his masters. I have observed a tremendous increment in his theoretical and practical knowledge through his academic years and now he is on the top positions as a Scientific Officer at Mumbai. Such opportunities can only be gained by higher grade of knowledge.
It can be true that Diploma holders have good knowledge but what is the use of the knowledge if he cannot excel in his life and have a good income in life.
|#100157 Author: Dipika Joshi Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Diploma should be considered as degree rather than 10+2 because what diploma students learn during their diploma tenure is somewhat similar
to our present degrees like B.Sc,B.E etc.I m saying this because while i was completing my B.E,i had few of my friends who had done their diploma and most of the subjects that we learned during our B.E,had been taught to them during their diploma.
So,by certain changes in the curriculum of Diploma ,it can be definitely considered as a Degree.
|#100171 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Good evening everyone,
Well, I have been reading most of the responses posted above and mostly people consider diploma as an equivalent to degree.
A diploma in indian education system is a 3 year course after 10th in technical fields whereas a degree is a 5 or 6 year course after class 10th comprising of technical,professional and managearial fields.
In my opinion though diploma provides a good technical course it lacks as in comparison to an engineering degree in many aspects.
I would consider an engineering degree having a little edge over the diploma form of education. An individual while doing a degree course learns technical aspects of engineering,but, apart from that he/she learns the professional and managerial form of education also. The case is not the same with diploma where only technical aspects are learnt in a nutshell. So i would rate a degree just a little above diploma.
|#100174 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Moreover, when i take into account the facts stated above by my friends that a degree today is nothing more than a qualification i strongly disagree to such a point.
When you are taking engineers into account you have to take engineers from iits,nits, bits also into consideration who are very good in their profession as an engineer. Now if you start comparing an engineer with a diploma holder you will find out the difference.
Compare a good engineer with an engineer you will find a difference their too. So if you have to judge on a fair basis compare a good engineer with a good diploma holder and you will locate the difference.
I would like to point out that when you take into consideration engineering degree as a whole you have to take into account good engineering colleges too and there you will find a difference between a degree and a diploma.
|#100202 Author: Amaresh Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Thank you for sharing your opinions.
Diploma might not be equalent to dilpoma, but all the companies should not consider the dipolma or degree as a creteria for promotions.Once after joining the company, company should monitor the employee's performance and based on that company has to give promotions.Fact is, One of my colleague lost the promotion beacause of only not having degree certificate even though having capabilities of manager.
Even Suprme court predicted the same.
That is why I raised this issue.
|#100216 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Promotions in private companies depend on the service conditions laid-down at the time of joining the company. Nevertheless, if the continued employment makes the empliyee experienced then he or she should be considered as qualified for promotions.
In the ongoing corporate world there is cut-throat competition and people with engineering degrees + MBA are there in competition for promotions.
Nevertheless, in the big manufacturing units like Ordnance Factories, BHEL and other government and semi-government factories there are no restrictions for promotions to Engineering Diploma holders if they are elevated from the lower grades and ranks.
In such situation it is always better for Engineering Diploma holders to go for AMIE degree course that you can do while being in service.
Following is the official web site of Institute of Engineers that conducts AMIE Engineering Graduation course. This is recognized worldwide as authentic Engineering Degree:
“Link to Institute of Engineers’ Official Site:”
|#100247 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 13/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Rightly said so Harish the competetion level in an organisation is so stiff these days that having a degree as a qualification gives you a slight edge, while going for promotions and increase in perks and salaries, over diploma holders.
Again, I would like to state that in a degree education technical,managerial and professional are given importance and these are of great importance in an organisation. Thus, degree holders get faster promotions.
Moreover, a person learns a lot more in 6 years of degree course than a 3 year course in diploma.
Looking at all of the above aspects why shouldnt a degree holder not be given the preferance? I think either the diploma curriculum be improved or under the present scenario degree be rightly given an importance.
A diploma has knowledge in nutshell than would'nt it be unjustified if a detailed course like degree be given the same importance.
|#100314 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
There is a common notion in deciding a level of education a student acquires when applying for a job in a company and what should be acceptable education qualification.
The diploma level offers technical level education which is sufficient for jobs like fitters, machine workers and in short we can label them as Hard Workers.
But they cannot be recruited for posts of officers and scientific and decision making positions.
There remains but minimum utility of technical skills in higher posts. I do not mean to say that technical skills are useless in higher posts but the managerial knowledge and decision making involves higher knowledge.
Thus raising such a topic that diploma is a 10 + 2 level or a degree; I will say that a diploma in engineering has only a 10 + 2 level knowledge or may be even less.
A student who studies through the pattern of 10 + 2 has better knowledge than a diploma holder.
A diploma holder in engineering faculty has knowledge in only his technical faculty, but a 10 + 2 student has knowledge in all subjects; whether it be social sciences or languages or maths or biology or chemistry.
A 10 + 2 student has all the doors of educational opportunities open for him/her but a diploma graduate has only two doors open : -
1. Go for a Degree in engineering
2. Settle for a Job
I would rather say that a diploma is NOWHERE comparable to a degree and a 10 + 2 is still more better than a diploma.
I would like to refer people to the previous group discussion to understand the theme of technical skills and soft skills in more details Click here to read on Technical skills and soft skills
|#100325 Author: Amaresh Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
I would say, diploma might not be equal to degree but its better than 10+2.Because 10+2 students wont study the industrial and social behavior in their syllabus.Even after completion of 10+2 its difficult to get a job.But in diploma, students will study all the subjects which are in degree. Amount of syllabus may be lesser than a degree.But all the syllabus which is in degree are included in dilpioma syllabus.
Diploma much more better than 10+2.
|#100333 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
I agree with you Amaresh that diploma is better than 10+2 and fully disagree with Dr. Apurva A. Tamhane that he is considering 10+2 better than diploma. I think sir you should ask some diploma holder for that. I am a diploma holder and i have also done 10+2 so i know what is better. Even i feel that diploma has better scope than B.Sc as diploma holders get government job very fast in post of junior Engineer.Can you tell any 10+2 student getting Jr. Engineer post.
Thanks & Regards
|#100339 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Hello Amaresh, Pawan Bhuguna,
10+2 has no comparison with Engineering Diploma for the simple reason that 10+2 is not a qualification that is mentioned / specified as requirement for employment to any job.
Engineering Diploma is considered equal to BSc for many industrial jobs. I have seen in industrial job requirements that '5 advance increments' are offered to Engineering Diploma holders for the post of Supervisor / Charge Man when BSc and DME are employed together.
|#100433 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Amaresh,I think the question asked by you has to aspects. First, should diploma be considered equal to 12th. Second, should diploma be equal to degree.
Both of the aspects are different. I think diploma lies in between both 12th and a degree.
Now, firstly when we compare diploma and 12th we find that a diploma is confined to technical knowledge and 12th to scientific knowledge.
If the person has to finally do engineering than diploma+degree will give a good practical technical knowledge to the individual. If the person goes for 12th plus degree than he gets scientific,technical,professional and managearial knowledge.
If the individual goes for just 12th he remains unqualified for a good job.
But, if the person goes for diploma he has atleast a certificate and technical knowledge and can fit into jobs.
|#100435 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
After watching out all these points I would say that diploma is an edge over 12th in technical knowledge and low in scientific knowledge. A degree is an edge over diploma and a degree+diploma is better than degree+12th.
So I would rate degree at the peak than diploma and finally 12th in terms of fetching a job for a living and degree than 12th than diploma in terms of procuring scientific knowledge.
But, I would definitely say degree is better than diploma. In our country where everyone is looking out for getting some job diploma would stand higher than 12th. But there is a contradiction that after 12th a person can opt for other courses too which is not the case with diploma where either a job or a degree is the only option left for most individuals.
|#100466 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Tell me one thing. A student completes his diploma at the age of 18. This is the age when all the students are going for professional education and studies. Is this a age to go in for working? For jobs? Even though some may go for jobs but they also pursue for degree level education. Why? Do all students go for degree level qualification education just to have a degree?
What Dipika said in her post in this thread is that Diploma level education is "somewhat" similar to degree level education; well this has to be. The first two years a diploma student studies what is taught in 11th and 12th standard syllabus less subjects like social sciences, Languages and Biology, Zoology.
Then in the third year the diploma student learns basics of the trade of engineering he has chosen.
That is why a diploma student in engineering gets admission in 2nd year of Degree engineering. But do you know that more than 98% of Diploma students fail in the 2nd year of B.E.?
Moreover if a Diploma student joins as a Junior Engineer in a company, he does nothing in his job only but clerical type of jobs...Whats in the name???
He gets nothing more than maximum 2000 to 5000 Rs. salary?
What is the use of going to work at such young age when it is time to learn. Your working may be justified if you are doing your education in Degree and doing work to support family.
Finance is not a problem now a days because education loans are available quite easily and that too with lucrative schemes and Rate of Interests.
Do you know that lot of scholarships are available for the poor students?
Do you know that it is India only which gives a good shelter for Diploma holders and none of most of developed countries give support to recruit in good jobs other than degree and master degree holders?
Those who do, do not pay much and get a lot of work done from you?
Do you know that all together all diploma level education has been stopped in medical education and now only degree, post graduate and super specialty courses exist in medical education?
Do you know that there is no utility of comparing 10 + 2 and diploma as it is a waste of life when opting for job after diploma and when going through the standard pattern of 10 + 2.
If you want to excel in your professional career, you have to have a high end education.
I will always choose a degree holder in front of a diploma holder to recruit people in my work force from which ever field I will need as technical skills can be still built in a person if he lacks them but he is of good knowledge and caliber.
It is utterly useless to compare a diploma with a degree.
10 + 2 students have the social behavior aspect in their studies and it is also taught in Moral and social sciences. They do not know have the technical aspect because it is going to be taught to them in the professional colleges in their degree education. It is not any much big thing or deed done to ado for.
It is always better to have a complete BE education and then go for a job with a starting salary of Rs. 10,000 to Rs. 20,000 scale and get further promotions rather than to toil in a Rs. 2,000 paying Junior engineer post.
Simply, a diploma holder will earn a maximum of 5 lakh rupees in 6 years after diploma; but a degree holder will earn up to 9 lakh rupees after 3 years on completion of degree.
10th + 3 year diploma + 6 years job = 5 lakhs (9 years after 10th)
10th + 2 + 4 year degree + 3 years job = 6 to 9 lakhs (9 years after 10th)
Simple, isn't it?
|#100487 Author: Hafeezur Rahman P Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 23 Date: 14/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Thank you very much to all for replying asked above question related to Diploma or Degree matter and I got somewhat additional information from this GD, however, I would like to share my opinion in brief detail about it, in India and other countries Degree is value than Diploma in some subjects, syllabus & streamlines, and in India generally Graduates preferred than Diploma holder in most of the organization but at the same time in Europe and Gulf countries any kinds of Diploma holder is given priority than Graduates in most of their organization, also, they get job easily and highly paid along with many facilities like family accommodation and family visas etc. (for foreigner).
For example, DME with Auto cad professional is priority than BE mechanical engineer with Auto cad. In addition, Diploma in A/C mechanic, Electricians, Civil, Computer, machinery and other diplomas etc. are getting job easily in those countries including expatriate and their local citizen.
ISC & IRC Gold member
ISC Editor – Jobs
|#100542 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
I think doctor apurva you are strongly mistaken about the facts you hav written.
For instance you said 98% of the diploma holders get flunked when they come to degree in 2nd year I have not encountered such a fact from the last 2 years infact the diploma holders have been doing fairly well in their university examinations in my college.
Moreover another fact that they are not given importance in abroad may not be true as as far as i know fetching a job in uk and usa after persuing diploma is pretty easy. One of my colleagues who came to our college after doing a diploma in 2nd year got a job offer from Netherlands from one of the multinationls and was paid a considarable amount of salary. He left the degree and instead went abroad to join the profession.
|#100552 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
Dr. Apurva i think you are taking diploma just as 10+2 and not considering it important. Even a diploma holder gets a good income. I think at present diploma holders are getting more job. We cannot considered diploma equal to 10+2 nor degree as both are having their advantages.
|#100609 Author: Suraj Nayak Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
In India degree is obviously considered to have a higher value.Here its basically considered equivalent to 10+3 qualification.
I have also observed that many students opt for diploma because they donot get a good school or college after completing their tenth standard. Thus being considered as a second option for those who are not not able to achieve high marks in this era of competition.
These students then join an engineering from the 3rd semester or the 2nd year onwards. Some of these students might have worked hard and gained a dep understanding of their subjects and may even be better than the students who joined engineering after their 10+2. However some are still unable to match the other students as they are unable to score in the exams.This however does not mean that they are not going to be good engineers as their practical knowledge is invaluable.
But at the end of the day what matters most to a company is the skills possessed by an engineer and his or her ability to contribute to the company. Though the initial salaries of the degree holder and the diploma holder may vary, in the long run the one who is the best at what he or she does will be successful.
aka Bboy Sun
Opportunity dances with those already on the dance floor
|#100681 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
@ Rohit Sharma - This is a true fact that Diploma holders are the maximum students which fail when they get into Degree education. It is the good way in Engineering education of ATKTs that one can appear for the next year exam otherwise, the chances of passing in Engineering are very low.
@ Hafeezur - Even though the Diploma holder may get a job, the salaries are very low. It is not a good option to go for job if one has to exist in now-a-days world.
@ Pawan - The initiator of this thread has asked a comparitive query of whether the diploma is equivalent to 10 + 2 or degree. While diploma is not comparable to degree, I have shown points where a diploma stands and where 10 + 2 stands. You may read my posts again to get your interpretation rectified.
Both 10 + 2 and diploma are different things, but 10 + 2 education stands more favorable for having a better future in professional life.
Moreover, everyone knows the standards of education till 12th standard and the education in diploma and degree colleges.
So it is always better to have a 10 + 2 education for its higher standards of education.
@ Suraj - The one who is the best excels in the long run but Education qualifications also are considered to which level of promotions a degree holder can be given and to which levels a diploma holder can be given.
I am closely related to all the events of engineering education, results and job interviews in government sectors even though I am a Doctor and pursuing my M.D. and thus I can speak very confidently of all the things I have written here.
|#100683 Author: Mysterious Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
If one looks at the core of the topic. One thing is clear that the two years of high school studies and four years of engineering studies apart an expandable and deep knowledge of subjects.
The diploma is a race mic mixture of high school and degree studies. since if somebody who do not know the basic physics and chemistry being taught in high school it is like a carpenter without the hammer.
The discrimination of the pay scale comes there within. Moreover, if their is no discrimination then this would lead to diploma flood in the market.
|#100684 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Look Apurva let me clarify some points first of all. You said in your previous post that you are a homeopath but closely related to engineering education. Let me tell ya you are related to it and I am into it.
May be your concepts about diploma that you state over here are more suitable to medico line then to the engineering line. I figure that the previous posts by you in this thread have a long description about the subjects taught in homeopath diploma. The concept about diploma people getting flunked may be in the medico field rather than the engineering field. Maybe you should try and review your information and dont ignore some very crucial points.
The very concept of 98% diploma people(by that you mean almost all of them) getting flunked in the univ. Exams doesnt digest to me as they have been my colleagues from the past two years. And ya let me say the results are quite explicit.
When a diploma individual comes into 2nd year of a degree he/she has to just study the subjects related to his/her field and I think that is not a very big deal for him/her. Mr. Doctor I have no contradiction with you regarding degree being better than diploma as I myself stated that. But, ya I do have differences regarding the concept laid by you with respect to diploma and 12th.
|#100688 Author: Hafeezur Rahman P Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 23 Date: 15/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Thanks for your comment, low salary only for few diploma holders and not for most of the diploma holders and bad luck for their fate, also, if they try for a suitable job in suitable organization where they can get their potential benefit and growth in their job or they have to invest and do their diploma related business. In addition, I would like to add which I missed it to inform generally yesterday that as an example DTDM (Diploma in Tools and Die molding) holder from Nettur Technical Training Foundation (NTTF) or (GTTF) India, most of their students got job in local (with fruitful salary-minimum equivalent to a degree holder), also they got job and citizenship in Australia, Singapore, New zealand and Switzerland etc. you may contact to these institutes through website / phone or a student who studied there and hope you may also agree that Diploma holder is equal value as Degree holder in most cases, even sometime DTDM is more value than Degree in same syllabus.
Here very important is Diploma holder should find their right job in right place at right time, and sometime Degree holder too work for low salary in some organization and you will find them if you survey it.
I agree with you in once case, there are few diplomas which can complete in 3 months to 6 months and 12 months etc. which is additional qualification along with 12th standard (HSC/II-PUC) or Degree course which sometime helpful for vocational or arts degree holder to get a job and pay less salary too for few month/year, later they may improve based on job performance on the floor.
ISC & IRC Gold member
ISC Editor – Jobs
|#100737 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 1|
To Dr. Apurva A. Tamhane ::> I don't think that Only 10 + 2 education will provide professional life.
|#100790 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
@ Pawan - Very truly said - A 10 + 2 education will never provide provide professional life. But it is a gateway for professional careers with more open opportunities and one should always pursue a professional education option rather than going to job just after completing Diploma.
So many doors remain open after completing the 10 + 2 pattern like Engineering, Medicine, Media, Veterinary, etc.
But this is not so after the diploma. In the world of competition today people are doing extra vocational courses and MBA after their B.E.. Some pursue M. Tech and M.E. or M.S. post graduation. If we think on why this is happening, then there is no point in trying to compare a diploma with a degree.
And 10 + 2 cannot be compared with a diploma because both are different education lines. 10 + 2 has obvious advantages as I have again mentioned over here.
It will be a useless comparison of a 100 cc bike with a 220 cc bike and it will also be useless by comparing a Company "A" bike with a Company "B" Car.
@ Hafeezur - You have said it very right when it comes to talk of a Business. Here it does not matter whether you are well educated or you are not educated at all. If you can invest and you know about the business you are going to do, and you can do business, then the business of yours is going to sky rocket.
And in terms of job - Doing vocational courses has its own advantages after a degree because it increases your general acceptance for a company in today's world which relies more on Certificates and papers.
|#100792 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
@ Rohit - The topics I am mentioning about Homoeopath are regarding about Degree education. Where ever I have mentioned about diploma education I have clearly stated.
I am acquainted to recruitment procedures in the Engineering field too and thus I know what is the acceptance of Diploma people and Degree people, so I am not wrong in what I have stated.
Salary for any professional is less in the initial days. But keeping in point the education qualification, it is incremented to match up with thus.
Degree people fair better in thus than diplomas.
|#100910 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Well, the discussion has become very intelligent. I would like to mention here that comparing diploma to 10+2 level is totally inappropriate. Diploma is a professional course whereas 10+2 level study is just the exaggeration of theoretical subjects. 10+2 level students are still into the school life whereas diploma students have placed their legs into the professional arena. So making the comparison between the too is just foolishness.
Now let us have a comparison between the degree and diploma. Though diploma may lack managerial skills as compared to degree as stated my fellow peer, Rohit Sharma, but the technical knowledge they possess is at par with the degree holders. The difference is just like students studying in government schools and public schools. So considering diploma inefficient and incapable is totally wrong.Moreover the maximum percentage of students who enter into the diploma are not from such good money earning class, so the caliber, the dedication and sincerity they posses towards their trade is magnificent and that too makes them skilled in their professional life.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#100916 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
I very much agree here to my friend Rohit Sharma that it it is totally wrong interpretation or information of Dr. Apurva that most of the diploma holders get flunked when they join the degree in the second year. However the result is totally opposite, they just give a jolt to all the degree holders when their names are seen on the top on the notice boards when the results are out.
Dr. Apurva also mentioned that students complete diploma at the age of 18. Let me clarify here too that certain percentage of students also enter into the diploma after twelfth. Dr. Apurva also mentioned that so many doors remain open after 12th, I totally agree to you on this. But ultimately they have to choose a single field and it cannot be like that that they can put their legs into different professional courses simultaneously after twelfth. Same is the case here with diploma, but the only difference is that this professional decision is taken just a little earlier.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#100926 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 16/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
My dear friend Amaresh is very correct that it is the skills of a professional that should be taken into account as far as the recruitment and promotions is concerned. Calling one incapable or inefficient engineer on just the basis of few credentials that makes a difference between the degree and diploma is totally unfair and unintelligent thought.
Dr. Apurva has mentioned that there are innumerable scopes after 12th and has halted there which possibly means that diploma lacks scopes. I would like to add here that, professionalism of a diploma holder does not only stop there. His good skills provides him admission in reputed engineering colleges, where he excels remarkably. Moreover the doors do not close there only, he can pursue MBA, he can prepare for administrative services, IES and many others. So scopes always widens for people with skills instead of winding.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#101001 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Rohit you are absolutely right about your concepts on diploma being better than 12th.
A person can go for a masters can give entrance examinations as a 12th studied person can after the completion of the degree.
And also one of the points made above stated that a knowledge of physics and chemistry is essential to become an engineer but the fact is that 2nd year onwards very little knowledge of physics and chemistry is required especially in computers electronics engineering. So a diploma student can carry on easily in 2nd year with the technical education he has had.
The point laid down by rohit mian that a student has to move only in one field so why to raft in two boats to fall and drown.
Regarding diploma and degree I would state that a degree is better than diploma as a diploma is just certificate of any course done whereas a degree is a combination of an associates degree and university degree so it is better than diploma in this respect.
|#101014 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
I want to add that Diploma can't be considered as 10+2 or degree as both are different. Diploma is some where midway between it.I want yo say that it is close to degree but not equal to degree as after diploma we get admission in second year and in job Diploma holder get less pay hike in compressions to Degree holder. But i must say it is better than B.Sc or 10+2.
And for some people which cannot afford to give B.tech education to their children due to lack of money, it works as a B.tech only (chota B.Tech or small B.Tech).
Thanks & Regards
|#101024 Author: prince raj Member Level: Bronze Member Rank: 0 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Well , I feel there is difference among the course contents of 10+2 , Diploma and Degree. If we can compare any one with the other , it would be ingenuine. Each of the Courses have their level of knowledge.
Diloma holder can get lateral entry and complete the degree.
There is difference of acuman , understanding and implementing the theoritical knowledge in the field. A degree holder does it in better way than the diploma holders.
Again comparing Diploma with 10+2 again is in justice to the course of Diploma.
|#101039 Author: Vilas Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 46 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 1|
i really apreciate the people who did 3 YR Diploma..
but with some eror is equivelnt to 10+2.
With Best Regards,
|#101040 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Diploma is usually granted to students upon successful completion of a two or three-year course at undergraduate level. This can not be treated as equivalent to degree in some context when this is for undegraduatate level. But on Higher level for Masters diploma in some courses this is considered equivalent to Degree courses for Post graduate programmes.
The Course is commenced with some special and knowledge programs so as to make students feel better for the subjects they choose for higher studies. There are several diplomas from which one can get good job and if one has enough calibre to get a job then he can earn good earning after doing diploma programme.
Diploma can not be treated as Degree level program as there are so many subjects and laboratory skills which never covered in diploma courses and they are much important in some professional courses.
A student having a degree gets good job as he has better knowledge and hands on practice on the subject through laboratory programmes.
While saying diploma course equivalent to the 10+2 level will be wrong as this has much more in regards of 10+2. One should has open his wings in many directionafter doing diploma course after 10th. But Doing 10+2 makes a student more comfortable in Degree programme as he has the basic knowledge of subjects for degree course.
These Courses are taken separately as some firms needs and prefer diploma holders. As the time passes with the experience they have they need to have some degree level programmes to meet their appraisals and designations.
So we Diploma level course is different from the two qualifications. In today's scenarios students has more interest in Diploma courses as this saves their time for degree course and have much knowledge than a 10+2 student has.
|#101060 Author: Amaresh Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Lets comes to the conclusion. Finally Diploma is uncomparible with 10+2 and degree. Diploma has its won value. And Diploma education indirectly helping to reduce unemployement in India and bringing standards of living from poor family to middle family.
Many diploma engineers are seeking for good position but they cud'nt.
Any how hats of to DIPLOMA.
|#101086 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 17/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
It has been very clearly,nicely and appropriately stated by Inder,Pawan and Amit in the above posts that diploma is a different qualification as compared to degree and diploma. The point has been very correctly stated by all three.
I fully agree to them and I have already stated in the points stated by me above that degree has a little edge over diploma in terms of technical,professional and managearial skills apart from job preferance in India.
I also said that diploma has a bit upper edge over 12th in terms of job fetching whereas they are quite different in terms of the education given which is beyond comparison. Thus diploma lies in between both and the priority queue may be like this-degree,diploma and 12th.
And yup knowledge in any form is always an asset.
|#101233 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
This is very right saying while comparison comes in study there is no comparison of any course with each other as each course is made for its own programme and syllabus. Once a course is completed if the candidate deserve then he got success in his career if not he has to go for higher qualification.
Diploma off course has its own value and can not be compared with degree and 10+2. There is one more form of diploma which lies above the Graduation degree and is termed as PG Diploma programme. This also has its own terms and the course content are much complex than a Graduate degree but as of the PG Degree this also can not be compared with PG Degree.
These type of PG diplomas are taken into consideration as equivalent to Graduation Degree programme by many organisations and these also have proved to fit for students to acquire good job and earnings.
Diplomas have their own significance in the field of Education and one should not take this study lightly and has to work hard for the success of the course.
|#101326 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Sorry for a late reply, but I was a little busy for last few days and could not follow up in the GD.
I acknowledge the inputs of other people over here. I will still stress on my point that Degree education is always a better option and for which I will never consider Diploma education nor equivalent to Degree nor equal to 10 + 2.
Its worthless to compare to 10 + 2 as both Diploma and 10+2 are different lines of education.
10 + 2 provides more options and is useful as gives time for a student to consider and reconsider his opportunity options till he enters into professional education.
Diploma in Medical education is worthless and has no scope of development in life.
I think this gives a good answer to Amaresh as he has not asked a specific question regarding Engineering only. Nor should any engineering student prefer for Diploma as in this competitive world today, a diploma holder stands no good in the degree and master people.
This is my conclusion to this GD even if Diploma engineers get jobs today but in the long run of professional career and personal life are simply, useless.
|#101340 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
My Dear Apurva,
I disagree with your point that diploma in any sense is worthless or personal life is useless of a diploma holder. There are so many students and employees having diploma and living a great life and studying higher qualification with great pace.
A diploma holder has much hold on basics rather than a 10+2 student if it comes in terms of higher studies.
If this is useless then why government should not ban these courses? Why student opt for diploma after 10th standard?why Diploma holders got admission directly in second year of graduation without going any entrance test? Why these courses running successfully?
My point is that no course is useless if done with interest and hard work.
Diploma courses have their own significance and one should not compare these courses with any of the degree or 10+2. There are lots of students and person who after diploma perform much better than a graduate and not all alone a diploma can do everything. You also has so many degrees then just why not to stuck only to one and stuggle for your career.
If a student has Diploma then this does not means that he does not deserve job in the industry or he is not good enough to pursue further education or his diploma is worthless or useless. There are so many organisation who needs diploma holders and not 10+2 or graduates.
I agree students have to go for degree programme to give value to their diploma but this does not mean that diploma does not have any significance.
|#101369 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Honorable ISC Members,
I would like to bring to the notice of all the participants in this Group Discussion that Engineering Diploma is one of the qualifications that has been recognized by the Emigration Department, Passport Issuing Authority of the Government of India for awarding ECNR status to the passengers traveling on international flights or crossing the borders of other countries while going out of India.
There are two following Statuses granted to the passport holders:
1. Either ECR = Emigration clearance required
2. Or ECNR = Emigration Clearance Not Required
Those who are 10 + 2 and not possessing Graduate Degree / Engineering Diploma / Diploma in Hotel Management or higher qualifications will have to undergo rigorous emigration clearance formalities at the airports and seaports.
This emigration clearance process takes between2 to 3 hours flat. People traveling on placement visas for seeking jobs like Artisans, laborers, taxi-drivers, domestic servants, and other worker class jobs are subjected to these emigration checks.
|#101370 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Honorable ISC Members,
This group Discussion has taken an unpleasant turn when our honorable members have resorted to condemning a respectable Qualification of Engineering Diploma.
All the state Governments are operating millions of Government Polytechnics where in-depth education is provided to engineers who successively fill-up 80% of the technical post in the middle and lower middle levels in manufacturing units, PWD, CPWD, Railways, Armed Forces, CODs, Army Base Workshops, Seaports, Ground Staff in Airports and the entire construction sector. More than 90% of site engineers, surveyors and foremen in industries are Engineering Diploma holders.
I appeal to the honorable members not to hurt feelings of hundreds of millions of engineers across the country.
|#101429 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Well,the fact of the matter is that if we go deep into the thought of lowering the prestige of any educational qualification by any means it would definitely be a sad and shameful act.
Education in any form should always be adored. In a growing country like India skilled manpower is definitely like the turtles upon which the big elephant like economy of India rests. Thus people and educationist from all fields are required. In government sectors diploma people hold a very vital position. Its not viable to neglect the role played by them in the working of the public enterprises. A diploma is a good option for those who cannot afford the heavy fee of money milking institutions and yet want to get a technical education in their bag. Its an option for those who are unlucky by any reasons to go for an associates degree. Its an option for those who have technical aspect more in their mind rather than other aspects. Thus, its an option for everyone.
Its requirement and usefulness should be respected and not made a subject of humility. 12th has its own significance in providing a scientific knowledge. But the credentials of lakhs of diploma people moving the indian economy should never be taken from them.
|#101432 Author: sailaja Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 237 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Most of us confuse in the matter that whether the degree and diploma are equal or not?
But there is quite a lot difference between both.
In general, Degree means certification awarded at the university level. EG: BA, MA degrees.
A diploma is nothing but a document testifying that the specific course is completed.
The certificates issued by high schools are nothing but degrees. Not diplomas.
In general opinion, diplomatic courses are not much effective than degree courses. The skill set or a degree course is completely different from a diploma course.
In most of the cases, a diploma course helps us to enter into a entry level of a job or work.
With a diploma, we can apply for a degree and gain more skills.
But in today’s fast generation, these certificates are just for name sake. People with good skills set can do much better job than others with great certificates.
|#101446 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 18/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
I agree with Harish and Rohit, we should not dishonour any type of qualification as the education is meant for making clear mind set of a student to give skill sets he is interested in. One should not make a point that the degree or diploma courses are just like that. They provide education and clear the facts about the subjects they understand during the course and have a better life with their experience and knowledge.
We should honour all the education courses which are running successfully. When a student starts his education and he is keen to learn different skills from his start. We can not even neglect the basic education students gain in pre-primary and primary schools.
Fact is that education plays a very vital role in developing and building the career of a person so as to stand in the market and earn his livings more easily than an illiterate person. We should not neglect the literacy mark we have achieved since our freedom. We acquired a great honour in the field of education and serving the world in many streams due to our education system only.
Every course has its own value and effect on the students. We should not disrespect any course whether it be degree or diploma or even primary education.
|#101498 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
The Engineering Diploma course is not a “diplomatic course” as you have stated in your expert comments on Engineering Diploma...
"In general opinion, diplomatic courses are not much effective than degree courses."
Please see the synonyms (meanings) of ‘Diplomatic‘are as follows:
Diplomatic = political, ambassadorial, embassy, tactful, subtle, suave, discreet, Diplomatic, sensitive
Please state, which meaning you had in your mind when you wrote about a qualification in the most sought-after subject ‘Engineering’.
|#101500 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Hello Honorable ISC Members
Let me furnish basic courses that are to be studied for becoming an educated individual:
(a) Pre Degree Courses:
• Class 10th, Secondary School Certificate (SSC). State Boards of secondary Education conduct this course. By having this qualification you can get a job not better than a peon, unskilled labor etc, in class IV category
• Class 12th, Higher Secondary School Certificate (HSSC). State Boards of secondary Education conduct this course. By having such qualification, you can get a job, like a peon, unskilled labor etc, in class 4 category.
They can also get jobs in class 3 category in special cases, like Peon and Clerks and orderlies in banks and other offices.
(b) Certificate Courses:
• Tradesmen courses: are conducted by ITIs for the technical trades like Turners, Fitters, Draughtsman, and Welders etc. ITIs are affiliated to the State Boards of Technical Education. ITI certificate holders get jobs named similar to their trades in which they are educated. They are employed as apprentices or skilled workers in class 3 category, in industries and draw far more salaries than 12th class pass.
(c) Diploma Courses:
• Engineering Diploma: Government Polytechnics are imparting education for awarding these Diplomas viz DME, DEE, DCE etc. Polytechnics are affiliated to the State Boards of Technical Education. DMEs, DEEs are employed in Supervisory cadres viz Supervisors, Charge Man, Fore Man, PWI in railways, Pilots / Drivers of Diesel and Electric Locomotives in Railways. They draw excellent salaries not less than fresh State Government Officers.
(d) Degree and PG courses: I am not writing about these courses, as we all are well aware about them.
|#101505 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
I want to say that only that we cannot consider 10+2 as diploma and after doing diploma we can get admission in second year but it also cannot be considered as degree.
|#101512 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
You are right while exploring the education terminology Harish.
From your terminology one can easily see that there is no comparison between a degree or 10+2 and diploma course.
But the question rises here is that what should a student choose to take admission in Degree course after 10th standard.
One should not confuse between the terms and should choose depending on their interest and ability to achieve that.
Comparison of diploma stands nowhere with any of the course conducted by the different institutions.
|#101524 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Hello Amit Siwach,
Just to summarize, I would like to furnish the following points for the honorable members to consider the worth of different courses:
• 10th and 12th certificates are tagged with the term SECONDARY. Hence they are not the final or ultimate qualifications
• ITI Certificates are proper qualifications for technicians, mechanics or skilled workers who would get adequate salary to run their families in their own status
• Engineering Diplomas are proper qualifications for supervisory staff and middle level engineers like Junior Engineers who would get considerably big pay packet to live a respectable and comfortable life.
Engineering Diploma holders get salaries equivalent to Science graduates viz BSc
• Engineering Degrees are definitely bigger, higher and attract the larger pay packets as compared to Engineering Diploma holders
• BE / BTech are Engineering Executives vis-à-vis DME / DEE / DCE are Engineering Supervisors or Junior Engineers
• Class 12th certificate cannot be compared with DME / DEE / DCE
• Qualification should be evaluated with the pay packet one could claim with that qualification
|#101531 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
I agree with your summary Harish. Comparing the level of competency in the field of education should be on the same course not on higher or lower level.
We should not compare different courses which are meant for different fields. Every course has its own importance and should not be taken as useless or worthless.
Student select courses with their choice and try to achieve success in the fields in which they are interested. On the basis of their course content they gain experience and serves the nation in different fields.
To summarise one should not point the course as useless as there is nothing useless in the field of education. Even a person from the birth start learning and learn till his death. Education plays a vital role in personal life whatever be course.
|#101545 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Thank you so much Harish you have provided a very specific knowledge about the different courses and the various job prospects. Also Amit has been clearly stating the importance of every little educationa that an individual inculcates within.
I agree to the posts given by them. Education is a fundamental right of everybody and the form of education is another important right for them.
Degree and diploma may not be equal on some terms but whats important is that together they form the engineering backbone of India.
Diploma is given great importance in abroad and so should it be given in India. 12th provides basic education and therefore should not be a criteria for job employment. After doing an engineering diploma an individual should definitely go for a degree than just look for a job apart from having no other option. He should increase his qualification and knowledge by going for a degree. After this he can move into a job or pursue further studies. So the educational prospects are never over for a diploma as well as for a 12th studied individual.
|#101569 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Yes Rohit, You are right to achieve a good career one should not stop his studies at this level. He has to go for higher qualification to pursue some graduation course which in turn gives good return to hard working students.
Every student has his own way of thinking and calibre to work hard. In my point of view one should take admission in the stream he likes most and has subjects of his interest. This will provide students interest and great knowledge and can contribute good in his life as well as for country.
Students should not be forced for choosing the subjects and should be given freedom by parents to have courses of their own interest. In this way one can build great confidence and knowledge of the subject and can maintain the success throughout the career.
Comparison in the field of education is just for discussion even we know the fact that each field is very vast and require best knowledge available in the market whatever be the field a person always learn.
|#101581 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Hello Honorable members,
whenever we discuss about the worth of any education we always forget the financial capacity of the student who is the final authority to decide as to which course he should join. Because, everyone of us has our own limitations about affordability for joining any course.
If someone belongs to a small towns and he / she has limited resources to study in a local institute then he / she has no other option except joining an Engineering Diploma course in the local Government Polytechnic.
Such students know well that they should better do BE or BTech, yet, they do not have resources and they cannot afford going to engineering colleges or IITs.
Moreover they need to join a job and earn bred and butter for their poor families as early as possible.
|#101661 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 19/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
My Dear Harish,
Money matters for those who does not care about themselves and who has enough calibre and skills can touch the heights without any help.
For poor students who are brilliant, government of India already has plans to support them. Every student has to be smart and skill full enough to compete to that level.
We only can not think about the financial position of a family. If a student is enthusiastic and belongs to poor family, there are so many organisation with government which help them in regard of money.
But the need here is to make system strong enough so that student does not lose their interest in the study and maintain their pace with great enthusiasm.
I agree with your point that conditions become such that a student cant go for higher studies and has to serve his family for his earnings but this is the responsibility of his parents to make him study and not to force for earnings.
|#102249 Author: Pawan Bahuguna Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 22/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
I just wanted to add that diploma holders get the respectable job after their diploma but problem is that they do not get promoted very fast as technical degree holder gets. So it's a waste to consider Diploma as a degree.
|#102307 Author: Rahul Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 153 Date: 22/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Their is difference in diploma and degree.. i say huge difference in many aspects. I am an automobile engg. In my class their was 10 diploma students out out of 60. I say most of them doing engg. after diploma and also few has, experience in working in few companies.
I am telling the practical truth about diploma students and why they get paid. Few exceptions is possible so, please don't take personally.
1) Diploma students are not able to compete with normal students in our class. Even they was not able solve basic and simple mathematical problems. Why?? because they don't did 11th and 12th. Most of mathematical problems used complex integrations and differentiation in higher level.
2) They have practical knowledge but they don't do hard work as other students. and sometimes they don't able to grasp the things as we do. I personally studied before three days of exam. But my friend teach them because they don't understand things, even you teach them.
3) Diploma students don't have theoretical knowledge. if company wants to do some research. Then these diploma students are not effective.
4) Engg... makes you to understand things in new way. companies don't expect diploma holders to innovate anything. Some times diploma holder has poor communication skills.
5) Most important Diploma should not be compared to degree. if diploma holder do degree after diploma. Then sure companies will prefer them but they still have to face competitions. because most companies take active written test and personal interview.
|#102443 Author: Rekha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 283 Date: 23/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Having diploma after 12th is an extra qualification but not equal to degree. Diploma is not considered par with degree. But the content of both is same, may be little extra for degree student. Degree is having very higher recognition than diploma. Even if you want to do higher studies you should have degree qualification. It doesn't mean diploma holders is having less talent compared to degree holder. Of course talent is not totally depend on degree and diploma.
|#102509 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 23/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Yes Rekha please do specify which diploma are you mentioning over here as an engineering diploma is generally persued after 10th. But yes the fact mentioned by you over here that talent cant be categorised under any qualification is right.
Actually this discussion upon educational qualifications does not have a horizon so it may go on and on. Everybody educates himself by employing every resource he can get to increase his knowledge and qualification. Those who dont get adequate resources and awareness suffice themselves by a lower adequate educational qualification. While other may climb up the ladder by increasing their knowledge and qualification.
Whatever may be the case i suggest a little alteration should be done in diploma curriculum regarding the scientific knowledge provided as it may be helpful if in case they go for a degree.
|#102515 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 23/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
After all the posts given here my own inference regarding this group discussion is that, though it may be inadequate to judge the ranks of any qualification but in this particular topic, degree may be a bit higher than diploma in some respects and the comparison of 12th and diploma is a bit contradictary. And diploma and degree together lay the foundation of indian engineering credibility in the modern world.
Rohit Shandilya Sharma.
|#102520 Author: Rekha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 283 Date: 23/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Engineering diploma can be pursued after 10th as well as 12th. It is better to do diploma after 12th. People who do diploma after a period they will realize degree is compulsory if they want to climb the ladder. I have an example for it. A friend of mine studied in technical school had completed his diploma(IT)... He was so brilliant still he didn't get the job as his expectation.. Then he did his engineering for 3 years because he already done his diploma.. After that he has been climbing without any curdle. Now he is working in Microsoft with a good pay......
|#102658 Author: ezhilarasi Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 23/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
students can study diploma even after studyin +2. But the real fact is many companies are not paying good salary to them when comparing to engineeing students.
but the diploma students will have the real knowledge than the engineering students. why i am saying this means diploma students will study most of their subject by practical. but engineering students have maximum 2 practical per semester.
but many people are earning good now as i see by studying diploma and got promotion by their hard work and experience. one of them is my father who is an Assistant engineer right now.
|#102958 Author: Rohit Shandilya Sharma Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 24/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Ya Rekha you are right a diploma can be pursued after 12th as well as 10th and i am well aware of that but my point was that wouldnt it be a bad thing that a lot of time would b consumed in 12th than diploma and than degree. You can correct me if i m wrong but wouldnt it take a whole lot of 8 years to have the degree and this is 2 years more than the normal degree if only you are considering engineering.
|#102968 Author: Rahul Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 153 Date: 24/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Normally diploma is after 10th. if you are doing 12th then why do diploma do degree.
One short cut way.
When you are in 3 rd year of diploma. You can also take DIRECT admission in engg...2nd year. So, diploma holder get good colleges some times. and saving one year. My one relative did this. Few engg. colleges keep reserve few seats for diploma. But better to be on safe side. if you not get direct admission in engg. them this will take more time then normal degree.
Also, peoples get job after diploma. Means just one year after 12th right. So, diploma is still good for industries. They get cheap labor.
Earn money online
|#103044 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 24/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
I agree with your ideas, Diploma is somewhat you can go for your higher qualification avoiding 10+2 in the while. And you can directly take admission to 2nd year of your engineering degree as your diploma almost covers all the subjects you have to undergo in 10+2 level.
So this seems good choice over 10+2. This is also cheaper in the sense of money and student who can not afford much.
Even you have opportunity to work with some companies after completing your diploma. However the pay scale is not much as per a graduate has.
But I think this is good for students who can not afford in respect to their family standard and wish to work for their family. He also can do a side by Degree with correspondace based on his Diploma qualificaiton and earning while the time. Also can make affordable to his budget and have further future scope afterwords.
|#104048 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 29/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Very rightly said by Rahul. After Diploma, you stand good for industries, for "cheap labor". I wouldn't mind to use a diploma for the petty jobs and office boy works for 2000 to 4000 Rs. a month. At the most 8000 Rs. a month???
What is the future? Can you sustain yourself with such petty jobs the whole life? Forget about your family and other relationships and duties.
In the world of today one should get a minimum of 30000 to 40000 Rs. a month to live a somewhat good life and people here are talking of jobs after diploma. Very disgusting. And people are comparing a diploma with a degree. The world has not gone nuts to give preference to degree holders and master holders and rake out the heck of money for them.
And this discussion is an extremely wrong cult on comparing a diploma with a degree. There is simply no comparison and the fact remains, whether you have a good technical knowledge or whatever from your diploma, you are worth only for petty jobs of 2000 to 4000 Rs. a month after diploma.
Even though a degree holder may start with such less amount salary in the initial days, the degree holder does not take much time to reach a respectable salary.
I will again raise the point of lack of money. Education loans are available very easily now a days and pursuing a degree education is not difficult when you have all the papers needed to apply for a loan.
This GD is a misnomer. There can never ever be any comparison between a 10 + 2, a diploma and a Degree.
Diploma is gradually becoming a thing of the past.
|#104406 Author: Satyajit Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 31/Aug/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
It all depends upon the university or board with which you have done the diploma course. If the course is completed with the renowned institute with appropriate university or board then it carries equal weight age than degree but still graduates are given more preferences and grade because they get more exposure to the related field than the elementary subject knowledge. In both cases, I mean doing diploma and degree the amount of labor put to complete the course varies and even the time too varies. Diploma takes about 3-4 years and degree takes around 5 years in most courses especially engineering and computer related degrees and diplomas.
Although the exposure to the working of the field is given in both cases but more practical aspect is given in degrees than in diploma as degree students have more time than diploma students.
I think this is the reason that corporate sector prefers degree holders to be given more preferences as they have more experience than diploma holders and diploma is also considered as the ready reckon of degree which automatically means that degree has more value than diploma. The course may be same or similar but the practicability of the knoweldge is given more in degree courses.
|#104416 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
This off course depend upon the course content and value of the course a student is going to do. But if one has strong knowledge of the field then salary is no bar for him.
I dont agree with the point that Diploma holders can not earn as much as a Degree holder can. One should take skills and knowledge into consideration while appointing a person as employee and if the person has enough knowledge to start with then salary and his earnings increases based on his profile.
I agree a diploma holder has to have a degree for long career and to build a proper place in the market but if a person has high skills and well experience in his field then where the need of degree. Degree is just for the sake of designation qualification one should have whatever be the marks he will get his earnings.
So main focus anywhere in the industry depends on the skills and experience the person should have. One have to furnish his skills to get most suitable job and no one can restrict him/her for the sake of degree or diploma.
These are just part of education and one should stand strong in his skills and I don't think one should not be capable to get job with respect to his skills.
|#104456 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
@ Satyajit - You have very correctly shown the significance of a Degree Qualification and I appreciate you for that.
@ Amit Siwach - I totally agree with you that even a Diploma Holder will have far more better knowledge than a Degree Holder, As the person may be.
But I belief that the Industry demands qualifications. Two persons with same level of knowledge, skills and Intelligence Quotient, but one with a Diploma and Another with a Degree, the degree holder will get more salary than the diploma holder.
This happens when a person wants to target his career in bigger and better opportunities. I completely agree with you that these are just part of education and one should stand strong in his/her skills and one should be capable to get a job with respect to his skills; but the industry demands qualifications.
Even if the degree holder may not have any good knowledge than the diploma holder but still, the degree holder is favored, just because he is and is having a degree.
Again, our discussions are healthy, but we are totally out of question of this GD. This GD is "Whether a 3-year diploma course is equal to 10+2 or degree?"
My answer is a staunch NO.
Neither comparable to a 10+2 nor comparable to a degree. Amaresh has asked a total misnomer.
I myself have completed my degree in Homoeopathic Medicine and am pursuing my Master just because a Bachelor of Homoeopathy gets 25k to 30k where as a M.D. in Homoeopathy gets 40k to 50k per month in India.
Similar is the difference in Homoeopathic practice in B.H.M.S. and M.D. Two physicians, a B.H.M.S. and other M.D. doing same kind of practice, the B.H.M.S. physician earns up to Rs 1 Lakh per month and the M.D. can earn up to Rs. 4 lakh per month on the same practice.
|#104503 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
I agree with you, If you have to work for a job then you have to qualify for the designation as per the requirements.
Those qualification depends on the post you have applied rather it be any in the industry.
If you have to work for a post which needs degree as a qualification than nowhere a diploma can stand. But with respect to diploma holders there are so many jobs in the industry which are even capable to serve their needs.
If one has Diploma and doing a job with success leaving behind than he even can join degree courses as per his need to enhance his career.
I agree with you and if you have seen my previous posts then you have seen that I also decline the comparison between the three.
I am not against with level of education a diploma holds nor for degree but while comparing one can not point about the fact that Diploma holders can not earn their earnings and Diploma is nowhere used.
There are so many courses which offers diploma and stand in the industry with dignity. Each course has its own importance and one can not neglect that.
Off course for a better future you have to qualify for the post you wish to work and you must poses enough educational as well as technical qualification to grab the job.
Obviously if you have a list of long educational certificate than you are more qualified for the field. We can not compare the Education in any aspect. This totally depends on the need and interest of a person from which education certificate he/she wish to start.
|#104519 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 0|
I think what you have written in your reply is the most exact answer to the question by Amaresh. I do not know where he has vanished?
As far as Medical Education line is concerned, no place is given to Diploma education holders, although they may gain very good place in their own private practice.
When it comes to Jobs, both in Public and Private sector, Degree holders and Masters holders are preferred in the list.
It is always a better option to have a good qualification and now a days the Government has become very lenient in providing loans and making things needed for education to be cheaper; right from the books to the laptops.
Study, Study and Study and Earn on the basis of your qualification. If your Technical and Soft skills are great then you are sure to reach the horizons. Sky is the Limit.
|#104553 Author: Harish Jharia Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
The GD is reaching its final stage and all of us have forgotten the person named Amaresh who is an engineering diploma holder and had asked a question that...
"Are diploma engineers really incapable?"
The honorable members joined hands in condemning the engineering diploma qualification and enumerating innumerable superiority points in favor of engineering degree; rather than answering the question asked by Amaresh.
Friends, don't we have feelings and sensitivity, that we are repeatedly reminding the person who has asked the question, that look you are a diploma holder and don't try to equate yourself with degree holders.
You should have gone to the bank for a loan for acquiring an engineering degree rather than going for diploma that is not considered as any qualification.
We are comparing Engineering Diploma with 12th class. We have crossed all the limits of civic decency. How can we condemn a citizen of India and a member of IndiaStudyChannel, right on his face by posting one content after the other on the internet, that is visited by millions of intellectuals and dignitaries and common people.
Whoever wins this GD, that doesn't matter. The fact that matters is that no one will ask a question, in future, by disclosing his lower qualifications and ask advices from the ISC members and get insulted. Because, people who work on computer and browse over internet have that much of self respect that they will not initiate any thread that invites insulting comments from honorable members.
How can we be so cruel?
I reproduce a comment in this thread by an honorable member as follows:
"I think what you have written in your reply is the most exact answer to the question by Amaresh. I do not know where he has vanished?"
What else the honorable member wants to do with Amaresh?
I request the web master to lock this thread before it takes yet more ugly turn.
|#104587 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 149 Date: 01/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
Being an editor, this is good step that you have reminded us about the facts which we should not adhere with.
I don't know the meaning of words you have written here but in my thinking the meaning is just to ask Amaresh to come up with his thoughts and let the GD to force in the right direction. Even if you have noticed from starting a GD starter must be an active person in the GD. May be Amaresh did not get enough time to come and join the GD.
We are not here to insult or giving disrespect to any of the ISC member.We came here for sharing our thoughts and there is nothing much to be so rude.
If anyone felt this GD as disrespect to members then I apologise for that but I don't think this happened and we have taken GD in wrong direction.
|#104594 Author: Raajkumar Balasundaram Member Level: Bronze Member Rank: 0 Date: 02/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
Hello very good morning everbody.
My first day in ISC and its great to respond a forum question.
I finished my diploma in Mechanical and joind BE (Mech)in the 2nd year.
The diploma course is a good education mode.There is no second thought to it. Only thing is the outcoming students age is little lower ( in the range of 18+).So some think they are not capable to acheive anything or take any pressure.
The educatinal level in the main subjects between BE and Diploma are quite the same. I dont feel any great difference with my experience in the two courses.
And for a members remark that diploma holders fail largely in degree is untrue. I cann't agree on it. Students who switch from diploma to degree have a superior knowledge in the main subjects than a direct degree student.
There are many persons in our coimbatore city with a diploma , managing huge textile mills and drawing a very good salary. I don't think any technical person disrespect the diploma holders even today.
Every person in India cannot spend huge amount of money for degree courses. For them joining diploma wiil be a good option. And when they start earning, they can continue their degree education on their own.
And also in my opinion going through diploma and finishing the degree course is a good one too. It will get you a good stand in the job competition too.
|#104698 Author: Viraj Sawant Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 02/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 5|
Hi everyone I m Viraj I have completed HSC and I have also completed Diploma in Mechanical engineering. I was selected in LnT company on campus placement.I was offered less salery compared to Degree Engineer.I dont think that a Diploma Engineer has less knowledge in fact a Diploma engineer has a good practical knowledge as compared to a degree engineer .I have many jobs lined after Diploma for me but I think one should complete degree so that he can have better prospects of moving forward in his career.
I would like to give an answer to Rahul that diploma students cant solve maths problems the reason is that they dont have it as u have in 12th but I can assure u that there r many diploma holder who are well versed in technical subjects. Its basically frustating that after there years of hard study you get a salary of 3000 to 5000 per month ,even an call center employee earns more thats discouraging.
|#104741 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 02/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 6|
I do not think you should expect everyone to speak in a very sweet language. In this GD, I am a critic to the subject, yes and I will be a Staunch critic. In my criticism, I will show the status of the issue and not to demoralize Amaresh or whom so ever and my criticism will always be for the better side. The one who understands this will always gain from it but the one who wants to find negativity from my criticism can put me in negative, I have nothing to loss.
If Amaresh is a Diploma holder I have no grudges for him and I will always wish for him to study further and go to the bank for a loan if he has a financial problem and study further and even do his masters, BUT I will never favor him in comparing diploma with 10+2 and degree just for the sake that he should feel better because he is diploma holder and less qualified.
I will never support such views of yours. If Amaresh wants to disclose his lower qualifications then he can disclose in other decent ways. This way to disclose by comparing is nothing wise or good.
And one more thing. I am here on ISC to make a earning from internet but not dependent on it. Winning or not winning is not a matter for me too. I am also ready to loss all the credits given to me till date if my membership is removed. I do not care. But I will not support any petty queries and comparisons just for the sake that Amaresh would feel bad. And it is on to him to take up what he wants to understand from this GD. And I have mentioned in this GD all things that :
1. Why Diploma should not be compared with 10 + 2 or Degree.
2. Why one should not go for a job after Diploma.
3. Why one should approach for loans if money is the problems.
4. I have also emphasized that if you are pursuing degree education and doing a part time job then it would be like the best thing in the world.
5. Exceptions do exist. One may not be able to pursue degree and higher education because he/she may have lot of responsibilities on him/her.
And if you think that this GD is taking an ugly turn, then I feel sorry to say that you are not correct, especially you being an editor at ISC. I think you are becoming biased under the thought that you have to support low qualified people out here. I think that you, as an Editor at ISC, have a respectable place and you should advice by how the low qualified can become higher qualified.
NO NEED to refer to me as Honorable member. You can clearly state my name where ever you want to and that's Dr. Apurva Tamhane. That would be more clearer to everyone.
And this is what I expect from Amaresh :
1. Go for higher education
2. Do not indulge in jobs and waste your time in meagre salaries
3. If you are having a real need to earn money at the age of 19-20, then and then only do part time jobs with Degree education.
And it is totally a senseless quote that Amaresh being a Citizen of India and a Member of IndiaStudyChannel should not be criticized on what he has queried. And I do not think that criticizing is being senseless and feeling less.
Does being a Indian Citizen and being a member of ISC guarantee a big bucks salary?
If you are stating this as losing over civic decency, then I do not agree with you. I will term this as guidance and counseling and counseling and guidance can be from explanatory to vocabulary criticism.
Hope you understand my words; both to Harish and Amaresh.
|#104743 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 02/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 2|
And one more thing. Amaresh has himself stated that Degree engineers are receiving higher salaries than diploma engineers. In todays' world of demand of qualification, even if a diploma holder may be technically sound than a degree holder, the diploma holder is Really Incapable .
|#104756 Author: umang garg Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 0 Date: 02/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
See there is a diffrent aspects to see a things.People might have think diploma as a scheduler and can't give weight to it.And considered it as equivalent to 10+2.
But in actual condition it is not be the case.Yes a agree that we can't considered diploma as degree but at the same time we can't let it go by saying just as equivalent to 10+2.
As of my view i think diploma lie in middle between 10+2 and degree because diploma person known much beyond that what 10+2 person known and less than that of degree person known .so as according to my view we can't compare diploma between the two because they both are much far in the opposite site of diploma.
|#104792 Author: Raajkumar Balasundaram Member Level: Bronze Member Rank: 0 Date: 03/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 3|
Thanks Dr. Apurva (a highly qualified person ) for such a wonderful remark " Diploma Holders is Really Incapable".
But you forgot one thing capability doesn't come with mere educational status , it comes through only with the experience.
Every freshers capability will be little bit low ,what ever his qualification may be.
|#104799 Author: AT Member Level: Diamond Member Rank: 18 Date: 03/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
You are very right in what you said. All three lines are very far from each other; there can be no comparison.
I suggest you read through all my threads and I hope you will be satisfied and understand to what I mean to say. I acknowledge your statement that capability doesn't come through mere educational status and it comes only through experience. Very truly said.
@ the forum editors
I need an explanation why my points have been reduced to zero to one of my posts in this thread.
|#104801 Author: ankur bhatt Member Level: Silver Member Rank: 0 Date: 03/Sep/2009 Rating: Points: 4|
first i would like to introduce myself , i am ankur bhatt, recently i have completed my b-tech in electronics and comm. from IET , LUCKNOW, i got 74% as my aggregate. i am new here and would like to share my experience as well as knowledge with you guys
now coming to question difference between diploma and 10+12, diploma is a technical degree but its not equivalent to technical graduation. believe me my father could,nt do mba coz he did diploma earlier so prob. do exist .thank you