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Women's reservation bill -positives and negatives
Posted Date: 20 Mar 2010 Posted By:: Jose Mathew Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 49 Points: 1
Recently the Women Reservation Bill passed in Rajya Sabha with a massive majority. Now Women Reservation Bill need to get the one third majority in the Lok Sabha also. Then only it become an amendment to the constitution. The proposed legislation aims at reserve 33.3 percent seats in Parliament and state legislatures for women.
Half of Indian population consist of women and it is widely accepted the reservations for women in elections.This time ISC will discuss the positive and negative aspects of women's reservation bill of India.
Members can express their views regarding the topic as a response to this thread. One member can post maximum of 4 responses.
|#132494 Author: PujaGupta Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 495 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Women's Reservation Bill is a good idea to have more women MPs in Parliament and more women MLAs in our state Assemblies. I am fully agreeing with the opinion that women should take part actively in the politics. But according to me reservations is not the right way to bring about this outcome.
I am not against the Women's Reservation Bill but I do not support the idea of reservation Policy not in this case but in all the matters. Reservations of any type are undesirable.
Today we need really some young leaders in our politics which have fresh approach and view towards the problems prevailing in our country especially related to the women’s. After the successful Implementation of this Bill number of women MPs and MLAs will increase surely but it is not guaranteed that we got suitable candidates.
Merits of Women's Reservation Bill
1. It will increase the number of women members in Parliament and state assemblies.
2. Issue related to the women’s will get much more priority in the Parliament and can be resolve easily.
3. The abusive and bad atmosphere of the Parliament and state assemblies can become better.
Demerits of Women's Reservation Bill
1. This Bill takes away the democratic right of 33% of the electorate to elect their representatives as after the implementation of bill it became compulsory to fill the reserved seats for women.
2. This law is raising questions on the abilities of women and perpetuates gender discrimination.
3. It is not guaranteed that benefits are received by the socially backward and underprivileged women, who really need them.
4. Many MLAs and MPs who are already having seats in Parliament and state assemblies will try to bring their own wife’s and other relatives to fulfill the seats.
|#132508 Author: Deepak Kumar Thakur Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 870 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
Today the women's reservation bill is a big discussion matter in India. The women's reservation bill has been a political issue for nearly a decade now.
First we know, what is women's reservation bill? The women's reservation bill is seeking 33% reservation to women in Lok Sabha & state assemblies. If this bill will pass, than activity of women's in politics will be increase. But few parties are against this bill, they don't want to its present structure. They demanding changes in this bill structure. Though the Congress government seems determined to give it a push.
The OBC argument is that the reservation will benefit upper caste women and there should be a "quota within quota" for OBC women. Few parties(Politicians) think that, this bill increase presence of "par kati" (Urban) women in parliament.
Congress & BJP both parties are agree with women's reservation bill, and both parties support this bill.
If this bill will pass in parliament, many active women's will come in Lok Sabha & state assemblies.
|#132512 Author: Nitst Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 146 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Women’s reservation bill has been the bone of contention and a raw political nerve for many political parties for more than a decade now. It has been in doldrums for over fourteen years and one of the most debatable and belligerent bills to have been discussed in the parliament. It had been hanging in the lurch due to the lack of any political consensus on the same.
The historic bill was cleared by the Cabinet amidst much mayhem, chaos and melodrama in March 2010 recently and gifted to women as a Women’s Day bonanza.
Before we discuss its pros and cons, what is this women’s reservation bill? The bill proposes a reservation of 33% seats in parliament and state legislatures for women. This means that if the bill is passed then one third of the total seats would be reserved for women at all three levels national, state and local. This will also apply within the already existing reservations for SC and ST.
The brighter aspectsof the bill which have been projected so far are that it would lead to gender equality in parliament resulting in women empowerment. This would give women the much needed opportunity to come out and participate in the political activities. It will also help them to come out of the claws of discrimination and abuse which has been meted out to them till now. This will give a golden chance to the women who have always taken a secondary position in our society so far to play an active role in the governance of our country.
It will give the women of India a level playing field in politics and raise their status and efficiency in the same.
Is there a flipside to the bill? It seems the male egos have been hurt and there have been voices talking of it resulting in ‘male deprivation’. It is being argued that it will be an injustice towards men who will not be able to fight elections on those reserved seats.
Besides this the messiahs of Dalits and other backward classes also feel that it will deprive them and not give them adequate representation. The bill also contradicts the motto of gender equality by being partial to women.
Well, I as an individual do not like the idea of a women’s reservation bill. Alternatives to bring women into parliament active governance can be thought of. I am certain that it will not empower women which is said to be its basic merit.
|#132525 Author: Dr. Kapileshwar Choudhary Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 1258 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 3|
Although I am against the reservation at any front but we have not any other alternative to increase the number of participation of woman in the parliament to fight against the discrimination ,bride burning and rape etc.
Some political party opposing this bill only because the leader of that party has not allowed women to develop within his party so they do not have active women worker and have also fear to loss his own seat.
|#132527 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
I personally don't support the system of reservation in any field, but this is totally a different case. At present Indian politics is almost captured and regulated by males.
Politics is such a thing, if you join and get elected, you have some power in hand, which you can utilize very well for the development of people/society if you truely want which unfortunately is not happening in our politics.
Women generally don't prefer to enter into politicss, as they think it is difficult to manage and present their opinion in a party meeting or in assembly where more than 90% member are male persons.
I beleive, this reservation will surely encourage many women to enter into politics and fight election with the courage that there will be many more women who will be joining with them.
And I personally think, women are less corrupted than men ! ( It does not mean that all women are honest but the percentage is less). If some honest women become M.L.A. and M.P., they will work at least for the development of their constituency. So why shouldn't be they given a chance?
Yes, I do agree with that most politicians (male) will make their wives, daughters, sisters stand in election and it may happen that the woman will be a politician in paper only and some other will misuse the power. This is the major demerit I think.
|#132537 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 174 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Empowerment of women started by Mahatma Gandhi spread like a fire and in the year 2010 women in India are excelling in each and every arena whether it be education, politics, administrative services, health or any other sector. Census 2001 reveals that the nation has almost equal ratio of men and women in the nation(49% women and 51% men). Women are moving at par with men and throwing a tough competition to men in the present world, then
Why there is a need of Reservation Bill for Women?
Giving one-third of reservation for the women in Parliament and State Legislatures does not mean in any sense the strengthening or upliftment of women. In fact, it is just making the things easier for them or still having a doubt in their caliber. If we say women are no more less than men then what we are trying to show with this Women Reservation Bill? Excellence never requires reservation. Efficient educated women will make way on their own to the politics.
I don't find any need of reservation in the nation until it is for the poor, down trodden and physically challenged people and that too in terms of education and jobs.By raising the concept of reservation in every other sector we are just suppressing the actual intellects. Let the people come to politics, administrative service, army on the basis of their caliber rather than on sex, caste or religion.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#132542 Author: PujaGupta Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 495 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 3|
Yes I am totally agree with Rohit. As being a woman I do not need any reservation in any filed of my life.Woman reservation Bill is like the question Mark on my abilities. In my response earlier I said that it is good to have more female members in the parliament but reservation bill is not a right step to bring that change.
|#132545 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 174 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
Puja you have strengthened my points as my views are agreed by women herself. I also do not consider that in a developing country like India there is any need left for such Women Reservation Bill in order to provide representation in the politics.
If government want to work on the upliftment of women, work for the education of girls in BPL and poor families. Try to educate the girl child which is the base of anything. Education if proper given will definitely make them efficient in politics, government services, health etc.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#132547 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
It is true that there should be equal right for everyone and they should get the position or success according to their talent.
But according to my view, reservation for women in politics is different from reservations in other fields like job in govt. sectors or in education.
As we can see, after 60 years of independence, the number of women politicians is very less. May be by this step, more numbers of women will get the opportunity to enter into politics and most important thing is their hesitation and view for politics will change in a positive way.
Yes, after, this reservation bill is passed, for a period of time, say few years, the main objective of this step will not be fulfilled, but once the women politicians understand that they have the power to change the system, I think, it will move in a positive direction.
|#132552 Author: Mohamed Salim Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 488 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
“You can tell the condition
of the nation by looking at the status of women.”
- Jawaharlal Nehru
“Na Stree Swathantryam Arhati”
Meaning - Woman is undeserving for independence.
This phrase reflects our whole attitude
towards women in our country.
As I can say woman suffers discrimination
and injustice in all stages of her life.
“If you educate a man you educate an individual,
but if you educate a woman you educate
an entire family.”
– Mahatma Gandhi
“That country and that nation which doesn’t respect women
will never become great now and nor will ever in future”
Some of the demerits pointed out by
ISC members are true but that
situation will not stay for long.
India is developing economically
and technologically. Majority of
women from lower middle class and
upwards are now educated.
They have jobs. How many of them
have interest in politics?
The various articles of our constitution
enshrine principle of gender equality.
How much we implemented for the benefit of the women.
The 33% reservation will improve the situation.
The politicians will have to give
them place to come up. Let them bring
their wife or daughters up. That is not a big thing.
This bill any way will contribute towards
the empowerment of women India.
|#132557 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 174 Date: 20/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
I disagree with my fellow peer Madhusmita on few of her notions. If we have seen very less number of women in politics since independence till now, does this imply we should start making reservations. There might be various factors like lack of interest of women in politics or male might be better in politics than women or various other reasons. It cannot be said that there is lack of opportunity for women at least in the 21st century. However if it would have been few decades ago, I would have agreed.
I think such big positions like MP's and MLA's are places of esteemed responsibility as the entire nation or state depends on them. Such positions should not be subject to reservation but should be based on the political experience, knowledge an administration power.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#132581 Author: Vandana Member Level: Platinum Member Rank: 7 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
The meaning of reservation means setting aside a place exclusively for a person or group. Should women be given this exclusivity in the Parliament?
On the one hand, it does seem to be a great idea. As pointed out by a few members, at least those who are genuinely interested in contributing to the country's growth will get a chance to table their views in the Parliament - the voicebox of the country so to say. It will help to have women in Parliament voicing issues that are their male colleagues may find sensitive to do so, such as atrocities against women & children, health issues of women, etc.
The question is who are the women who are "genuinely interested"? Like male Parliamentarians, I don't think women are any less in being more interested in having a seat of power than a real concern for tackling issues!
Reservation in the first place is never a good idea when based on caste, religion or gender and the like. Like any other field, it is high time that those in power should get posts based on their merits. Yes, we vote for them, but when they stand for elections, at least there should be some law to stop those with shady backgrounds and unfit to rule to stand for elections. Then at least, if at all reservations come into play, the reservations are made for meritorious candidates.
|#132588 Author: Vijay Kumar Vishwakarma Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 331 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Hello ISC friends,
Its all rubbish things is going on in India, Women reservation bill, or any other reservation bill, I strictly against of all these reservation bills, because of this bill activity, many of excellent and intelligent students (male or female) do not get job or admission in professional colleges.
If you talk about women reservation bill in India, I think everyone (male and female) should think of their own that they are equal or not, because if we just talk and debate about this matter, time will be gone from our hands, and the matter will be at the same position means no result.
About this Group discussion the Positive and Negative points of reservation bills are;
1. Every one will respect women in our country.
2. Management of Parliament will be good, because of the managerial skills of women.
3. Equal access to participate in social and political activities.
4. Decision making in economic life and politics of the nation.
5. It will eliminate the gender discrimination in the Parliament.
6. Rapid improvement in the lifestyle of women.
7. Full advancement to women in legislation.
8. Easier to access the democratic functioning for women.
9. Women in the Parliament will act as a complement to men.
1. It will cut the rights of eligible and experienced candidates in the Parliament.
2. Many women elected in the parliament will be wife, sister, daughter, etc. of some powerful MP's/ministers.
3. Access of women in social and political activities will dominate men.
4. Reservation means killing others rights, and it is going on in the Parliament, killing man's rights.
5. Women will gain greater access to control over resources, material, etc.
6. Women empowerment means break free of mold, not get the reservation and killing others rights.
7. It will lead to corruption, as women are good managers, not good administrators.
8. Increase in crime against men.
My dear friends, I am not against women, but I am against the all bill activity in India may be it is women reservation bill.
My opinion is that every bill should be applied effectively and efficiently so that everyone should get profit of it and no one gets hurt by it.
That's all I want to say.
|#132597 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
I would say it is not about the availability of opportunities in 21st century...it is about how many are availing the opportunities and getting benefited.
We can not always be superficial and say that women don't need reservations, they are equal to men, they are capable of doing anything. But the fact is that now also there are many villages in India where women are unaware of what is happening in outside world.
Yes, there is lack of opportunity for many people in this 21st century. For this,we need to educate them, have tell them about their rights. But the reservation will also additionally help them to stand.
Even many educated women who want to come into politics but are not finding the courage, they may move one step ahead and will make a change in the present politics.
|#132610 Author: vanitha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 776 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
women has the ability to do multi works in one time than men and it is scientifically proved.some of the problems are solved by only women if she is not under the control of head or any person who ruled her on same party.
Only by giving reservation women can get chance to participate in important decision.This Quoted reservation is based on the reservations on united states having 30 percent in 1995 and mark well identity and US people believe that women can do and take important decision in parliament.The japan have only 5percent and countries like Sweden give equal rights to take decision.So,this 33 percent will definitely able to solve many problems rising good solution.
|#132626 Author: Runa N Borah Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 197 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
The 33% Reservation for women as the women's Reservation Bill proposes will surely do some good to the 50% population of our country ie the women population . We cannot ignore that though talk about women's progress there are crores of women who are still downtrodden , still being treated as second class citizens .
Before we discuss the pros and cons of the may we point out whether the bill itself is all perfect . The problems in the bill are
(1)Women cannot nurse one constituency forever . They need to rotate constituencies .
(2) Women's reservation is not extended to RAjya Sabha .
(3) There will be no female sub -quota for backward classes , which means bill may help the already priviledged uppperclass.This will indirectly help the family members of existing MPs and ministers only .
So one may wonder why these points were not considered before . Because this bill has waited for years to get a chance to be debated .Now these are the flaws in the bill itself . What will be its negative and positive aspects are a different story altogather .
Lets come to the negative aspects of Women's reservation Bill first .
(1) We cannot hope any magic change in women's condition in India by this bill .Indian Law has already granted women gender equality in almost evry aspect of life . Are things changing ?
(2)The Dalits and the tribals are enjoying reservation for the last 6o years . Do we see any changes in their position . Poor people are getting poorer and Madam Mayawati is wearing currency garlands .
(3)Again as this bill does not have any sub-quota chances are there that relatives and wives of existing MPs and ministers will get the benefit of this bill .
Positives aspects of the women's reservation bill .
In India women suffer a thousand forms of discrimination. Starting from her own family where the girl child has to sacrifice her food , education for her brothers , she has to sacrifice even her career to make her family happy .Infant foeticide , dowry deaths , rape , physical and mental abuse by unknown and known person , women are still to find a secure haven for themselves .If only 10% percent of such women get benefit from this bill then it will help to build a corner stone for development of women in remote areas who are less priviledged .
I do agree with Mr Rohit that "Excellence never requires any reservation" .This way we (the bill) only project women as weaker . But other than the 33.3%seats there will be other seats where woman can compete and prove their excellence .
Runa Borah .
Runa N. Borah.
|#132646 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
As Runa raised the point that there are reservation for Dalits and other tribal and schedule casts for so many years, but there is negligible development happened for them. Yes,this is true. But we all know, many programmes in our system are not carried out in a proper way due to corruption at different levels.
So, 33% reservation for women in parliament actually is a good step, but the main problem is whether this will be used in the prosperity and development of women and Indian politics or it will be misused by the present politicians who want their whole family to have the power of politics.
Anyway, every new programme or policy has some merits and demerits.
We can for the best to happen.
|#132654 Author: darshan Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 926 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
Bill passed of 33% reservation for the womens in the parliament is a another date to remember in the history of Indian Politics,in books only.
First of all I want to tell all the members that whatever the bill has passed in the parliament, it will not change anything in the real world. I don`t think any political leader is interested in doing any upliftment for the womens, even the women politician. These political leaders just want to make vote banks by making this reservation issue highlighted for a long time.
As Now, the bill is passed in the parliament that 33% seats are reserved for the womens in the Rajya Sabha. In a people of group 33 womens out of 100 are equal to 100 people without women.
But if I have to talk about the good points of this reservation bill passing news, I can just say that if there are 33% womens are already in the parliament as reserved, 1the other 17% womens should come in the front and do something for the upliftment and betterment of the womens in this country.
One important thing I want to share with all that until we didn`t try something it is impossible to achieve the success.
|#132665 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
Yes, it is true that this reservation policy may not help a lot for the development and uplifting of women, but this will surely help to change the thinking of many people that politics is a game of men. Those women who are interested in politics and share their view/idea about politics but do not fight elections, this reservation policy may give them the courage to do enter the field.
One more thing I would like to add that we all know that there is corruption everywhere, even in giving ticket to some candidate in a party for election. For this reason also, many women have fear that they will not get party ticket. By this reservation, at least many women will get a chance to fight election.
Another drawback of the bill is that, the voters in some area will not have the choice to vote for their favourite candidate.
|#132668 Author: Rohit Mian Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 174 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
Very well said by Runa Burah that we cannot expect any kind of magic by this Women Reservation Bill. I do not find any need of such bills in the present scenario when women of the nation has become so strong. Political experience, educational qualification, public interaction etc. must be considered the only parameters for entering into the Parliament or State Legislatures then whether it be women or men.
I would like to point out one statement of Madhusmita, 'We can not always be superficial and say that women don't need reservations, they are equal to men.' Considering women equal to men and still looking for reservations are contrary statements. One who is effecient does not require reservation. I feel women of India are capable enough that they can win Parliament seats on their own.
I again want to highlight that if we have to work, then work for the education of poor people whether it be men or women rather then passing such Reservation Bills.
"By silence I conceal my imperfections and come to know others."
|#132680 Author: Vijay Kumar Vishwakarma Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 331 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
Hi ISC friends,
I already said that I am against the bill activity as whole, not against the women. I just want to save the most talented and brilliant persons or India, whether it is male or female.
We always talk about the Women Empowerment, do anybody think about the empowerment of men, are they (men) really empowered. No, now-a-days nobody is empowered not even men, because all types of LAWS & BILLS are only for women, none for men.
If men in the Parliament go for "Walkout", it will be taken as negative in media, but positive in terms of women.
I want to ask why it is so? Why the 21st century for women only, why not for men. Why all laws and bills are against men.
There should some laws and bills for men also, then we can say as whole and proudly "Our India is Empowered".
|#132708 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 21/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
I would like to clarify about my statement which Mr. Rohit has pointed that 'We can not always be superficial and say that women don't need reservation, they are equal to men.'
I meant to say here, "We can not always be superficial and say that we don't need reservation, we can not always be superficial and say that women are equal to men."
May be it was my wrong selection of words while writing the sentence, for which it was understood as a contrary statement.
My point was, if we will think practically, now a days also there is lack of opportunities and scopes in many areas in our country. Many women are not getting the opportunities to prove that they can do any type of work. Now also in many villages in India, women are not allowed to come out of their home, to work outside. For this, they need proper education, and that is of course a different discussion.
It is true that 'reservation' system is not a good policy. But here we should try to understand that reservation for women in politics is different than other reservations. For example, in a medical college or in a hospital, there is a need of talented students, knowledgeable and expert doctors, so any type of reservation there will create a barrier in selecting a proper candidate.
But in politics, where criminals, uneducated persons all are entering and becoming leaders, there if we reserve 33% seat for women, this doesn't mean that we are doubting the capability and talent of women. It will help many women even many educated women to think about joining politics.
|#132716 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 222 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Though Reservation is never found good for any country as this increases corruption in the system just for the sake of some greedy people in the environment and they try to fulfill their quota by any means.I am totally against the reservation for any kind. There are several communities in India who are fighting for reservation for their cast. If there are enough calibre in a person if he can achieve the things then reservation is just a mere needless thing.
Everyone here discussing about the women reservation bill and its impact on politics. I dont think we need reservation for any class and any community in the India except if not necessary like for handicapped, people below poverty line came in the section of reservation else I dont think we need reservation of anykind. Though this is a good move by the goverment for the ladies to take part more enthusiastically in the politics of India but if this is needed to make them aware against the politics.
If we see all arround the corner of any field there are lots of women which serves the country with their services and this is fact which can not be neglected that we have a bunch of ladies working in our politics tooo. But if we merely pass the bill or their reservation then I think this is a big question on their ability that they are placed equally in the society. If they have calibre then no one can stop them to move further and if they dont then reservation can not do anything in that regards.
So this is just the talent and hard work of a person, whichever he/she be, who make them to achive a great success in the world and reservation can not serves the better part.
ISC Gold Member
|#132734 Author: PujaGupta Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 495 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
As I said earlier that Woman Reservation Bill is not required at all than question arise When and Why this bill came in to existence?
Woman reservation Bill is first draft by the H D Deve Gowda-led United Front government and it was first introduced in the Lok Sabha on September 12, 1996 and since than arguments are began on this topic whether it should be passed or not.
As In my previous response I discuss about its negative effects I want to tell one more thing that why I am not in favour of this bill. In our panchayat elections 33% seats are already reserved for women candidates and it gives the opportunity to rural woman to came in to politics but how many of them are really concern or familiar with Indian Politics most of them do not even ever present in the meetings of panchayat on the contrary their Husbands are taking the charge and making decisions on their names and this is the real truth of reservation.
And I am, afraid that same will happen in the Parliament and state assemblies so Instead of this kind of reservation make reservations for rural women to get the basic education. This mill make them capable and than only the achievement which we want to make with this bill can be achieved only.
|#132736 Author: Madhusmita Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 198 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
One thing more I would like to add to my above post.
In other fields, like if one candidate is selected for IAS/IPS without having any reservation quota, it shows his talent and capability.
But unfortunately, in politics it is not happening. There are many capable leaders in our country. But it is also not true that only talented, capable or hard working people are contesting and winning elections. . Entering into politics is a big decision for a common woman. Though she knows that she is capable and work hard but it is not so easy for her to get a ticket, to fight election and to win.
Women who belong to a politics family, it becomes easy for them to enter into politics. But common city/village women who are educated and capable but don't have a politics background, this reservation will help to bring those capable and hard working women into politics.
|#132740 Author: Krishnadas Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 188 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Women are no way inferior to men. Women always claim equal status along with men. Therefore we need to know whether the reservation for women is really a need of the hour or it is a political agenda?.
The political parties are always for divide and rule policy. We have reservations for various castes and communities. But are we realy doing justice by providing reservations?. We will only be adding another category of reservation by intoducing the womens reservation Bill.
In the absence of any Law no one stops any political parties in providing sufficient seats to women candidates. The representation of women in the organisations of political parties is very minimal. Similarly the women elected representatives and women ministers in the Government is also very few. The political parties which are supporting the women's reservation bill have not done much so far in developing the women leaders. In most of the cases the women leaders are controlled by men. Though introduction of women's reservation bill talks about empowering women we need to see how far it would be successful in reaching to women mass and bringing out true leaders.
Mr. Lallu Prasad yadav when he was arrested by CBI in one of the scandals, made is wife as the Chief Minister of Bihar. The women reservation bill should not end up being "womens of politicains reservation Bill".
With Regards and Best wishes,
"There is no substitute for hard work"
-Thomas Alva Edison
|#132744 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 222 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
By the time one say women reservation, I feel we are reserving women to fly high as they are limited to have a quota for them. In politics one can not say we do not have reservation. This is really a sympathy with politics to say that we are not having reservation. We are having reservation in politics for corruption, hooligans, dacaits, underworld leaders, Money minters. These all made a chunk in reservation in the politics and easily enters in the country politics and handles public as they wish to.
But if we wish to provide the rights to ladies then they have to be srong enough to encourage their community to handle such acivities.
This only our cheap politics we have a large amount of black money in foreign banks but we need to export things from other countries even we take rent from World Bank. This is only possible becouse of reservation of corruption in the politics.
This reservation only be handled if we have clean handed bunch of people. And I think ladies can donate their whole in clearing such type of activities as their nature is so made that they can not tolerate corruption and decieving activities.
So this is good we have great ladies in our politics and we will see new faces in future also. But if ladies start thinking like male activist thought of minting money then their is no way to handle that problem. So better we have such faces in politics which are not corrupt whether she be a women or a men.
Reservation will not make much impact on the politics this is the inner soul of the person who is willing to clean our politics to a bright and developed India.
ISC Gold Member
|#132821 Author: Malhar Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 433 Date: 22/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Various pros and cons of the proposed bill for constitutional provision of 33% of seats in Lower Houses of Parliament (Loksabha) and Legislative Assemblies (Vidhansabha) have been elaborately brought out by many members. However, I would like to draw the attention of members to another facet of this bill.
This bill is not about reservation in educational institutes or jobs. Women enjoy the reservations in college seats and employment avenues. Results of this policy are there for all of us to see. Academic campuses and work place environs have more female presence than before. But the problems of women continue to exist. Problems regarding sexual harassment, female infanticide etc are in fact on increase. These issues are not on the agenda of the legislative houses simply because there are not enough members concerned about it.
Many ISC members unfortunately are expressing their viewpoint on the basis of their urban background. It’s not just about high profile women in IT, media or financial institutions, who can afford to say no to reservations. But the women toiling hard in the fields in scorching sum, doing petty jobs to survive, need to be represented appropriately. The experiment of reservation for women in local governing bodies (Panchayats and Municipal councils and corporations) is encouraging enough to be extended to assemblies and parliament.
Many members have expressed apprehension if this would make any difference to plight of women. Let me counter this argument by asking by how much has the plight of men (males) changed in last sixty years with almost 90% of elected representatives being male? True, there will be dummy candidates (a la Rabri Devi). But then even if 10% women MPs and MLAs of the proposed one third strength of parliament/Assembly keep their sensitivities alive, they can make a great deal of difference to the state of women. Members may recall Satta, the Madhur Bhandarkar film in which the protagonist plunges into politics to represent her feudalistic family but refuses to cave in to the pressure of male dominated society. Only women can bring about the change in the status of women India. This bill hopefully will go a long way in doing so.
|#132863 Author: Nitst Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 146 Date: 23/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
It is a pleasure to read a myriad of opinions on one of the most consequential topics in recent times. I will pick up the thread from where I left it earlier on in the discussions and that is to reiterate that it is indeed a matter of great remorse and shame that years after attaining independence, there still exists the need for reservations for women!
We have heard the echoes of the war of words in the parliament (it was a televised drama for all to see) when the bill was tabled. There were talks of women empowerment, equality and what not. According to me the question of reservation arises because of the mindsets and attitude which is as stubborn as a deeply etched stain. I may take the liberty of digressing just a tad bit because I feel that the two issues are enmeshed and we cannot address one without referring to the other.
I kept mulling over the fact that what was it about the bill that I found so irksome. Here is the reason I guess. Right to Education comes much before politics. A detailed statistical analysis portrays a very sorry figure in that department. What went wrong with the compulsory primary education? It is a hard core reality that the feminine gender does not enjoy the liberty here as their counterparts do. When we cannot even ensure the very basic education for women, how can we talk of empowering them using the pretext of this bill? The women are not only educationally deprived but socially deprived as well. It would be more appropriate to completely obliterate social stigmas like child marriages, female infanticides. Talks of women empowerment through this bill sounds hyppocritical to say the least. We have to get rid of the social injustice that is meted out to them before anything else.
Any self-respecting woman would want to be where she is because she deserves to be there and not merely because of her gender alone. Creating quotas is a superb example of a lopsided democracy. If we as a nation cannot raise the level and status of women and bring them at par, then it is a failure of system which cannot be rectified by reservations alone.
It is a matter of great pride that we have a woman as the president of India and another one as the Lok Sabha speaker. This was supposed to show to the world, "Look, no more gender biases in India!" and set an example for empowering women. Can we say with honesty that it did create a furore? The scene is still pathetically on the contrary and this turned out to be false belief. Similarly the concept of reservations for women will take us nowhere towards a more enlightened woman.
There are different schemes launched for educating a girl child which are in a shoddy state. They must be revived at all levels on a war footing. Education and a change in attitude and creating genuine awareness alone can bring along true enlightenment and empowerment.
Even if we try and de link education and other issues for a while the question still remains whether women would be given enough space and freedom to prove their efficacy? Will they get their dues or become dummies in the hands of their political husbands? There are various examples which can be cited to prove this point. There are instances where they are given a position but not adequate power to prove their mettle. If using women as mere rubber stamps and to portray them as holding fort without giving them any opportunity to display their governing skills is considered a cause for celebrations, then we seriously need to redefine ‘women empowerment’.
Reservation is the proof of acceptance that there is something drastically wrong somewhere in the system to have warranted such a bill. I am sure that I can come up with some more convincing arguments as this issue merits serious discussions.
|#132872 Author: Runa N Borah Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 197 Date: 23/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
I would like to thank Pujaji for bringing the birth story of this controversial bill into light . More than a decade have passed . Indian MPs could gather enough courage to pass such a bill in a span of more than a decade .So what can be expected from men in general in our country .
Again as Pujaji has pointed out that what good it has bought till now when we already have 33% reservation in Panchayats . I am sure a woman have to pass several layers of tests to decide in favour of politics in Panchayatas too . Quite often it is more than eligibility it is ill-fate which works in favour of a woman to join politics .. That means when a political leader is dead or being killed , the party projects his widow as a contestant ,because of the reservation .How eligible this woman is that is not a problem .
Anyway Indian Politics has to go a long way in case of election .
Here party is larger than person .And often party means Family here. Women's bill as such has very litle to do with improveement of women folk .
But this bill will help those who sincerely want to join politics , do something may be by keeping oneself above party politics .We will always welcome such politicians who actually want to do something for the deprived section of society . And May the Women's Reservation bill pave the Way for such activities in Future , instead of being just another bill .
Runa N. Borah.
|#133025 Author: smitha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 406 Date: 24/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Personally I do not agree with reservation of any type in any area of life. It is more than sixty years since India got Independence. The reservations which was implemented in areas of education and employment still prevail in our society. Are we sure that these reservations reach those who really deserve it? It is common that the rich from among the backward classes receive the benefits and the poor and underprivileged still remain the same.
In the case of Woman's reservation bill, we can argue that the percentage of women among our rulers is nominal. But is there a proportionate number of women members among the active participants in politics? Will we get genuine leaders, when the bill comes to practice? There are a lot of unanswered questions, which the years to come would answer.
While discussing the topic, we have to consider both the positive and negative sides of the issue.
Among the positive impacts, the primary thing which comes to our mind is that it would increase the number of woman members in our parliament. Secondly, we have a belief that lady members would not be corrupted and so administration would be transparent. Further, we expect the ladies to do their duties more sincerely than their male counterparts. On a long term point of view this bill can bring a lot of women to active politics, whether they are good at it or not.
Among the negative impacts, what comes first is the fact that there should be a time limit for the reservation. After that, a review should be held and if needed the reservation can be removed. Further, there are women politicians who are notorious for their corruption. This shows that they are not different from the male leaders and we need not keep lot of expectations from them. Moreover, the whole drama that took place in our parliament, which is a shame to our nation, shows that all the political parties wanted to pacify their vote banks. This reservation will most probably be misused by the existing male politicians, by bringing their close relatives to politics.
Once again, I would like to point out that young citizens with higher education and a vision towards the future should come forward to lead India. Further, we need to educate the citizens about the need for members with good personality and leadership qualities to guide us in the new millennium.
|#133139 Author: Vandana Member Level: Platinum Member Rank: 7 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
I do not agree with smitha on 1 point, that "a review should be held and if needed the reservation can be removed."
If reservations are made for women in Parliament, once implemented it should not be removed. Instead, before implementing it, it should be thoroughly vetted, the features and parameters clearly laid out and then put into motion. If it is removed at a later stage, there will be an even greater ruckus!
I agree, though, that women will be more sincere and dedicated Parliamentarians than their male colleagues.
|#133165 Author: Gyandeep Kaushal Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 166 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
First of all, to start with I would like to thank all my friends above who have responded before me for not letting the topic deviate. I have seen in ISC that sometimes the subject matter of the discussion turn aside. However, this did not happen this time. I was this time just waiting to see the responses of other members and try to influence myself with their views (if acceptable to me).
Coming on the main point, I feel that I need not say much about what is the Women’s Reservation Bill actually about. To start with I would like to talk about the merits of the Women’s Reservation Bill.
Benefits of Women’s Reservation Bill
1. Increase in female members - Undoubtedly, I think, this bill (if passed) will increase the number of females, to at least more than one percent though it is about 33% of reservation. Going through the common mathematics if there are 100 seats, then 33 will be reserved for women in which only women will be entitled to participate or contest the election. This is primarily because seats left for men will decrease.
2. Urges women participationg - I am sure that this bill, if fails to make any change, but will for sure would be a request, an urge to the women masses to show their presence in the foundation building of the nation, by partaking in elections and political decision.
People say that often due to the domination of male masses in the electorate bodies, the female benefits are stepped out. Maybe, this bill would give a chance to women to come to blows for their own rights and mass benefits.
You will be surprised to know that besides these two points, I do not discover any genuine benefits or merits of this bill, in the real life.
Lead Editor: Ask Experts, ISC
|#133168 Author: Gyandeep Kaushal Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 166 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
In this post, I would be sharing with you all my views which are negative in regard to the Women’s Reservation Bill, which I think won’t bring any change.
Detriments of Women’s Reservation Bill
1. Hampers the actual value of the word ‘Equality’ - First of all, I would like to say that if this bill is going to hamper the word value ‘Equality’ if it is passed. We say that men and women are equal in our homeland India. But reservation is something that is surely going to hamper it. We only say that men and women are equal then why giving more facilities and privilege or concession to women masses? In fact, not only this reservation, every reservation in the administration, be it education, be it politics, or be it bank loans, disturbs the reputation of the word ‘equality’ and decreases it value.
2. Declares men are above women - Personally, being one among the men mass, I would say that if this bill gets passed, I will surely consider myself powerful and more deserving than any woman in the nation. This is my personal view. Maybe my social behavior remains the same, but of course, mentally, I will feel myself more intelligent, powerful and deserving than the women.
Well, I know it is rude to talk what I just did above. But that is my honest view. Now, let me bring you to the same view of mine and take a distinct look and gaze at the Women’s Reservation Bill with a different eye. I think many of our members have already spoken this but I would say in a (bit) different manner. We, the populace of India say that men and women are equal here, no one is superior and no one is inferior. In short, there is no superiority inferiority complex here in India, and if it is, it shouldn’t be. However, it is a theory of nature that the one who is superior does not require special help to do something, however, the needy and the weaker segment needs help more. So who is the one who is getting special privilege and help here, it’s the women. So who is superior, the men or the women? Aren't the men superior?
3. Might ‘kill’ the country - The existence of any country, and its condition depends majorly on the type of administration it has, whether intelligent or foolish, whether intellectual or not. Just give it a run to the horse of your mind. Just think – suppose there are 1000 male contestants, out of which 200 deserve to be on the chairs and the number of seats available in that political body is merely 100. Now, there are 100 women too, out of which 33 get selected and it does not matter whether they actually deserve the seat. So there in the body, we will be having 67 people who actually deserve and can manage things well. However, one third of the seats will be something that maybe it can hold, maybe it can’t. Even though there are 133 people who deserve more than those 33 women, but they won’t get the seat.
This is not finished yet my friends. Among that 67 seats also, women will be eligible to contest the election against other women. I think this is going to surely hamper the proper administration of the nation because deserving people may not get what they should be given.
4. Has anything changed? - Any type of reservation is merely a special and exclusive place for anyone. From so many years STs, SCs, and OBCs have been enjoying so many different types of reservations? I don’t find any betterment in their condition though. Still there are many tribes in India who keep howling for their rights but they are not provided with.
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|#133178 Author: smitha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 406 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
Just consider the situation, when all these woman members reach the parliament for the first time. Our parliament will have a minimum of 160 new members, most of whom are freshers in this field. How will the nation bear this huge change in politics. It is genuine for the new members to take some time to understand the basics of politics. So I would like the rule to be implemented step by step.
Moreover, education and ability should be given emphasis while considering candidates for elections. This has to be made compulsory. For this election commission can make the eligibility conditions strict. Let us have leaders who are capable of leading us in the new era.
|#133184 Author: Gyandeep Kaushal Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 166 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
In this post, I would be giving my verdict about the Women’s Reservation Bill.
Verdict for Women’s Reservation Bill - Well, friends, I agree with Rohit sir’s word that excellence does not need reservation. Of course, this is really true. Don’t you think that if women get 33% reservation in the legislature bodies and when already there is 33% reservation in the Panchayat, it would be something devastating?? Aren’t we making the women feel that they need help because they are weak (are they actually weak). Apart from this I would like to put on the board, a question – Will the Women’s Resevation Bill actually able to bring more female members (who deserve and can manage politics on their behalf)?
I don’t think so. Women in India have basically entitled with the work to manage families and the male masses have been entitled to bring economic support to the other family members. So how can a common woman participate to contest the election when they have no time, whatsoever be the reason? Just have a survey around in your colony, and ask how many women wish to take part in politics? I don’t think that even 50% of Indian women, have interest in knowing things about politics and knowing the rules and regulations and requirements for contesting the election.
It is true that if you have a reality in your aim which you have in front of your eyes, you will try hard and surely achieve it, if you try harder than the others. If women would have been interested, then for sure, they would have shown their active participations in political judgement. What we need to do is not make them feel weaker that they need reservation, but instead they need to be imparted education. This will work better than making these bills.
However, I would now like to deviate from the main topic. When it comes to reservation, political parties seem to be very interested but what about educating the females in our country. I will just tell you something. My mother is a teacher in a govt. school. She is not a teacher of English but since her English is a bit better than others, she teaches English in class VIII. She is actually a teacher of Social Science, Hindi and mathematics. However, she works really hard to teach the students and completes the syllabus in time (you will be shocked to know that in most of the govt. schools, syllabus does not complete) This time she told me that there were about 12 or 13 (I don’t remember) chapters and the girl students were really working hard to go hand in hand with her.
When the exams came, this was the situation. For 108 girls in the class, the Jharkhand Siksha Pariyojana gave only 10 question papers. The question papers possessed a multitude of mistakes in the question itself. The time was also limited to them (that is not a problem). The questions were from merely three chapters when in the syllabus there are more than 10 chapters. Now tell me one thing, what are the girls going to do? Isn’t their base of knowledge of English going to be really weak in this situation?
If the educational base itself is so weak, if the girls are not going to know what they deserve to know, how are they actually going to show active participation in political activities? What will this bill do to them? You might be thinking be thinking that this is the condition only in Jharkhand, but it is in many other schools. It may be a bit wrong to link education with politics for this time in the GD, but I think this was necessary.
Moreover, I would like to bring on the board, the fact why China is so prosperous. We often think that they are lucky that they have so much resource and blah blah blah. Friends, it is not only this. You will be surprised to know that in China, children from the age of 14-16 start working part timely or full time (majority do part time) to get some financial support to themselves and the family. It is the principle of the Chinese that one should never be a burden to his relatives. But how about this thing in India? Does children work for financial income (out of their own will)? I am not saying that they should work to earn but yes, they must realize the real world in this period too, because it really makes them different with practical experience with the world. Here in India, parents allow children (be it boy or a girl, for boys it is a normal thing but nowadays, it implies with the girls too) to do orkutting, but they don’t allow them to work, even like we do in ISC. I know these are something which people don’t consider fit, but then if you think I am intelligent, it’s all because I love to work for myself.
As a last word, I think thatthis bill is not going to bring any changes which surprises us or is something legendary. I doubt whether it will make any change. Girls should be made strong from the base, that’s all which will work, not reservations and not rendering a feeling to them that they are weak.
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|#133235 Author: Vilas Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 72 Date: 25/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 3|
Changes in the community is possible slowly. Hence the Women’s Reservation Bill is passed by central government. Yes I know there is few womens no need of any Bills because they have dare & deserve what they want to become. But we are live in which country where the well educated [LLB, Dr. etc] are become house wife after marriage. I strongly support to women's reservation bill of India.
with best regards
With Best Regards,
|#133429 Author: Malhar Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 433 Date: 27/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Indian society is full of paradoxes. All the religions (including Hinduism, Islam, and Sikhism etc) profess equality in mankind irrespective of caste and gender. But in reality, we find discrimination on the basis of caste and gender being practiced since centuries. Indian constitution adapted policy of reservation to rectify this social injustice. The latest proposal to provide reservation for women in law making bodies is third provision of this kind (reservation for Sc/ST being first, and OBCs being second). Looking at the increased opposition to these bills, one wonders if India is really becoming a pragmatic society?. The violent opposition to Mandal recommendations is still fresh in memory. This proposal of reservation for women is languishing since last fourteen years on one pretext or other, but in fact to keep male dominance in tact.
Main objections raised by some members to implementation of this bill are: (i) women members will be dummies of their husbands (ii) women are disinterested in politics / are not good at it (iii) there are more important issues like child marriages and female infanticide. Let me counter these arguments one by one.
Members have cited example of Rabri Devi acting as dummy chief minister for Lalu Yadav, While there will be more such incidences in future too, let me ask how many of the 500 odd male MPs have a decision of their own? Are most of them not dummies? The statistics shows that most of the members are there to complete the quorum and blindly raise their hands on party high command’s diktat. On the contrary, most of them vie with each other to be called ‘Netaji ka khaas aadmi’. We have often seen how even chief ministers acting as mere puppets in the hands of their bosses and can not muster courage to against their wishes. (On a lighter note, even the party bosses can’t muster courage to go against the wishes of their wives! But then that’s besides the point)
Even now out of 50 women MPs in Lok Sabha, there’s a sizeable number of women who have earned their position own their own rather than owing to their husband or family connection. I am sure that out of 170 odd women who will be there, many, if not all, will be there on their own.
There’s hardly any proof to support the argument that women don’t like politics. There were many fields which were supposed to be not suitable for women. But now we see women doing exceptionally well in fields like Engineering, agriculture, education, health sector, finance. Rural economy, in fact is entirely driven by women. So, if given chance, women have proved themselves to be as good as, and even better then male counterparts. In fact, two of the strongest politicians independent India has seen are women. (Indira Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi). True, they had the advantage of Gandhi-Nehru lineage. But Mayawati, coming from a down-trodden background, is proving to be no less. Recently a news of an MBA graduate woman becoming sarpanch hit the headlines. More of educated women will turn to politics as an option for profession.
Members have emphasized the need to make women stronger. They want issues of female infanticide, education and child marriages to be addressed. The question is who is going to stand for these causes? Men are not taking up these issues. The law making bodies like Parliament and Assemblies need more women to take up these issues because they are near to their hearts than that of their male counterparts. The very fact that these burning issues are bane of Indian society is all the more reason for increasing representation of women in parliament and assemblies.
Political parties are opposing or supporting this bill for their political compulsions. But as a socially aware citizen of India, I am strongly in favour of any move that will increase women participation in parliament / assemblies. There are, however, lot of flaws in the draft of the proposed bill. I will elaborate on them in my next post.
|#133652 Author: Runa N Borah Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 197 Date: 28/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Hi all , I would like to comment on some points raised by Mr kaushal .
Firstly , it is not that 50% of Indian women do not show any interest in knowing about politics . I think it is because of gender-biased mind-set which have already occupied in the mind of most people . In villages a girl/woman is deliberately being kept out of any financial matters (or any decision making), whereas we mave seen when a woman gets chance she can prove herself even better .So women in general stay away from these things because they really really afraid to invite turmoil in their marriage . The intricacies of married life is really too much for women dear .A woman can afford to execute her decision when she has enough economic independance in most cases .
And secondly , you know about how our govt offices run . The education department has become the haven of corrupted office who don't care to publish enough question paper and some are not worthy to be called teachers .In some states of India poor people are getting poorer because of the ministers and beaurocrates are getting richer . No doubt they can do more for the students (including girls) of remote areas .
I would continue to stick to my support for the Woman's Reservation Bill because Women in India need external help to improvement . We can ignore that fact and say that we are self sufficiant , but this is not the case with crores of woman who are facing severe atrocities .
Runa N. Borah.
|#133698 Author: Gyandeep Kaushal Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 166 Date: 28/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Dear Runa N Borah, I submit respect to you for showing negation to my statements. However, I would like to stick to my opinion. I am sure you believe that still, in India, a big percentage of population is uneducated, and illiterate (I don't call a person who knows to write his/her name a literate guy). And also, we know that India is a country with a majority of rural population. Also, we know that in rural areas, most often, girls are not allowed to study; however, follow the normal old traditional Indian paths. When they don't get time or allowance to study or educate themselves, then how can you think that they would know the rules and regulations which are in the constitution, regarding the age requirements, and other requirements which are necessary to contest an election? Won't you agree that no one can know the rules and regulations of anything, unless he/she has got into that once, by reading or by hearing?
What I meant to say was not a statistical data. There is no statistical data like that that 50 % women don't show interest in politics. Above the line you have quoted via your words, I also mentioned that there are gender based biased discriminations because of which (majority of) the female masses don't get themselves to anywhere near to election. Moreover, this is a discussion about the Women's reservation bill which is meant to increase the participation of women in the political decisions of the nation. So, knowing only will mean too much. Until you know what politics is and how to engage oneself in politics successfully, how would you be able to treat yourself as a non biased politician and prove the same to the masses?
Again, for your ease, I would like to simplify -
1. India is a country with rural majority.
2. Majority of the rural men are not educated.
3. Following the traditional Indian girl path, majority of rural girls don't get access to education? (I don't call it girls being educated where in schools, they see their juniors taking mid day meals with the teachers teaching in the class, with water coming in their mouths by seeing the juniors eating outside, with no proper school uniform, with only 10 question papers out of 108 students, with late supply of books, with no proper medical facilities). Also, don't forget the female infanticide.
4. When they don't get access to educational amenities, I don't think that they would get a whole lot of book of Indian constitution and know more about what politics is and other chapters of it?
5. When they don't know what politics is, I don't think that they would ever get interest in knowing and performing (Do you think that you can actually have interest in something about which you have not heard)
Again, I would like to say that I am a person who likes to know more about politics and I love politics. Often, I make different types of (unregistered and casual) surveys between my teachers, my aunts, my parents, and cousins and also with the people of my neighborhood. This is a question I have asked to many that how about I give you all the money and all the ways to improve the condition of the estate and then contest the election? Most of them said no. You would be surprised that my mother is a very sharp minded woman when it comes to politics. According to my personal view, if she contests an election and wins, she can actively do politics. In fact, it's my dream to see her in politics as soon as possible. Now, it's not that she is illiterate. She is more than a graduate. Also, she is too much engulfed in her daily household chores, however, spends not less than 2.5 hours reading the newspaper and watching the news channels to get live updates. Would you say that she does not have interest in politics? Or would you say that she does not know about the requirements to contest the election? I don't think so.
But she even says no.However, would she be able to leave me alone and my father and my elder brother and simply make her busy to such an extent when she won't be able to care for either of the three? Would she be able to leave a secured service and rather risk her regular income and leave her service to contest the election, being a member of a middle class family which needs money (suppose)? Would she be able to tolerate the insult of her husband (again, just suppose, it's nothing as such in my family) by giving more financial income to the family in future than my father? It's not that every husband would call it an insult, at least not my father, but how many men will allow their wives to earn more money than themselves?
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|#133778 Author: Runa N Borah Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 197 Date: 28/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Hi Gyandeep , Thank you first of all , for attending all the issues and for helping to ease my understanding.
I really really agree to you when you say that India's population is basically rural and they don't get access to education (in the sense of knowing ABCD) .
My point is that the condition that you have mentioned (point 3)in schools in rural areas are mostly because that the government policies are not being implied properly by govt officials.Even if half of the officials have been doing their duties properly the conditions must have been improved till now , after 60n odd years of independence .
And have you seen the language that some MPs and MLA's use in front of cameras . Do you think they know the consitution . They are succesful leaders. But do not hesitate to through objects to the speaker . I bet even if there is an all women Parliament they will not behave like this
Again , thanks your unofficial surveys , I come to know that 'mostly'
women do not show interest in politics . I would like to explain this point from what I think about this . As Bertrand Russel says that Politics is the last resort of all scoundrals .You may or may not agree with Russel , but many people(especially those who are honest and do not want to tarnish their image) look at politics like that . Women as the 'fairer sex' according to me do not dare to enter politics , because they are subjected to biased social notion that good women do stay at home .
I have observed so far ( I have studied mostly in girls' school and colleges), girls are full of enthusiasm when it comes to college election , they actively participate in elections , do love to work for society . But why their enthusiasm gets evaporated away when they get married despite of being educated . You are right when you say they they do not love to sacrifice the easy happy life family life and risk of politics , may be for inviting shame/trouble for their men .
But even if they want to join , I think most will not be allowed by husbands or society .SO basically what do we want ?? we want things to be changed . we want that more honest people join the politics . woman like your mother join politics . May be when she will feel that politics is not a gamble , it is a safe court for her to play , by joining politics she can improve conditions in the rural areas , people like her must join , you have to encourage her in all forms . By a reservation you will be exactly doing that . Because probably she won't need to bear the brunt of losing the election .
Thanks you again Gyandeep for making this arena interesting to debate with .
Runa N. Borah.
|#133815 Author: Nitst Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 146 Date: 29/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
It is good to see the efforts and endeavors and enthusiasm of members in support of women and against the women's reservation bill. Let us all raise the collective voice of our conscience and strengthen and empower women in the true sense.
I agree with Malhar regarding there being many paradoxes in our society. Our democracy is the most lopsided one when it comes to the issues regarding women! Reserving seats for women should have been the ultimate step taken and not the first one towards their betterment, enrichment and enlightenment. We seriously need to reverse this pattern.
I wish our politicianshad done their home works well in this regard rather than hulling and mulling over this issue for the past decade or so. Reservation is not the only tool towards empowering women as has been reiterated and portrayed by its lobbyists time and again. There are various other aspects that are involved such as economic opportunities, social equality and personal rights for women. It has become a matter of tradition to deprive women of these very basic personal rights.
Women are generally not considered capable of any meaningful income generation in rural areas and hence relegated to household duties and inexpensive labor. Their voices are usually silenced without the power to work and attaining any financial independence. This suits the vested of interests of many. In the lack of any sustainable economies in a majority of villages, it is only through the suppression of women that the landlords, upper castes and even government officials are able to thrive and survive. On the other side it is a well known fact that women contribute considerably to household income through farm work and as an agricultural laborer. It is more important to give them their due recognition rather than reserving seats in the parliament. The underlying social injustice here cannot be resolved by passing women's reservation bill. It would be grossly ironical and ridiculous.
Men still control the destiny of women in our society and against this backdrop; do you think that it would be possible to empower women? Women will gain power in the true sense only when both men and women begin to respect and accept the contributions of women. The crux of the matter lies in enabling women for better income generation without a sense of threat or hurt for men!
It is extremely saddening and disheartening that the Women's Reservation Bill and a tragic case of female infanticide in Dharmapuri share the same space in the newspapers. It is one of the biggest ironie in recent times. 'Cannot save their lives but can reserve seats for them!!' seems to be the new motto of the think tank of politicians.
There is no quick fix and easy solution to these problems pertaining to women's empowerment. It is sheer wishful thinking if our policy makers think that getting the Women's Reservation bill Okayed will resolve the issue. In my opinion it is the most amateur way of tackling such a deep and complex issue.
I am also aware that a mere frontal attack or criticism is not going to take us anywhere. The real solution lies in the holistic approach that deals with all the major interrelated issues pertaining to women like social injustice, economic welfare and education.
Friends, do you know that according to surveys India has more number of female doctors, scientists, surgeons and professors than even the United States. It is also a paradox and an ugly fact that average women in India are economically and socially weaker than men. It is only when this disparity is removed can they reach the levels where they can utilize this reservation bill to the fullest.
This reservations bill is tackling only the symptoms and not the root cause of the problems of faced by women. It will give them the freedom and space to fly but without giving them the freedom to develop their wings. I sincerely feel that this is going to turn out to be a futile exercise.
|#133982 Author: Malhar Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 433 Date: 30/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
It is surprising that some of the most distinguished ISC members have expressed their apprehensions about the proposed bill seeking reservation for women in legislative bodies. The perception of Gyandeep and others, that the reservations have not changed the condition of those enjoying the benefits, is far from true. The fact that the socio-economic condition of SC / ST / OBC and even women has considerably improved in post independence period, can not be denied. Even though, as Gyandeep and Nitst have mentioned, the backward classes and women do face discrimination, its magnitude has decreased considerably.(Some pervert media men magnify these acts of abusive treatments out of proportion.) Similarly, this fact also can not be denied that this qualitative change has been brought about mainly because of constitutional reservations.
Many of the senior ISC members will recall that a girl in the classroom or a lady in staffroom was a rarity till early eighties. Now, the schools and colleges and offices from even semi-urban towns, I come from one such, are seen abuzz with girls and ladies. So as far as education and employment are concerned, the policy of reservations has helped. What has not changed though, is feeble participation of women in politics. All through the sixty years of independence, (which has seen more number of female doctors, scientists, surgeons and professors than even the United States as Nitst puts it) the number of female MPs has never crossed 15% of the strength of Lok Sabha or any vidhan Sabha in the country.
Despite fierce opposition to the bill, there appears to be a consensus on the fact that women should have a larger role in public life. The passage of this bill has unfortunately been stifled by the opposition to various provisions in the bill, as these provisions are threatening to sabotage the interests of some of the political strongmen.
Some political thinkers are of the view that instead of this quota system, it should be made mandatory for the political parties to nominate fixed percentage of female candidates. This system, very successfully implemented in some Nordic countries like Sweden and Belgium, has seen female percentage as high as 35-45 percent in parliaments of these countries.
During the debate in Rajya Sabha, on the proposed bill, we have seen how eloquently leaders of all parties have condemned the injustice towards women and expressed the need for more representation of women. But none of these political parties have put their house in order by accommodating more women in the top echelons of their party.
Clearly, the Nordic model won't work in India. The politics in India is far too immature for that. Hence, enforcing such compulsory reservation is the way forward. True, because no conscious effort has so far been made to inculcate political awareness among women, the initial beneficiaries will be wives and daughters from political families. But, during the course of time, this picture will certainly change.
Mr. Nitst has rightly talked about a holistic approach. I agree that the policy of reservation is not a long term solution. But at the same time, because the backwards got opportunities (thanks to policy of reservations), the attitude of upper caste people has changed to a large extent. Similarly, the attitude of the society has also become liberal by some extent towards women. But it needs a major push that this proposed bill has capability to provide.
|#134018 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 222 Date: 31/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Well as many as writers as many as views and same is true for me. In my views as I have expressed in above post we have laid down the milestones for the women to come up and work in the society which is full of male candidate.Now this totally depends on the female candidate how they take this opportunity and work for a better and pure culture. People always think women are less productive than a man in so many fields but now a days circumstances are changing and we are developing in all areas and found female candidature in almost every field.
Though government has taken the step which should be taken early in the decades has empower the women power to its fullest in the politics . Women power is always supposed to be above all and this is always true and even seen in the history. As far as reservation is concerned there is no bars for a right and eligible candidate to enter in any field. But if we do not have enough members and right members who can change the way our politics is moving by their morals and disciplinary act then such bills are of no use. If these bills became the new weapons for politicians to keep their family in the field then I dont think there will be much impact.
We have to have such candidatures in politics which can transform the way our politicians is behaving in current scenario. If a female part can do justice to this then we have already given our support to the bill.
So need to change the rules in our politics and need to enhance the power and draw the caliber in the development of the nation whether they require reservation or not. Women can do justice more efficiently and sincerely as they are very sticky to their work and perform with more enthusiasm then a male counterpart. So if we have such faces who can serve the nation from their inner part of the soul then we welcome ladies in the field of politics and this is really a great idea to work on. We have much better work culture all around.
ISC Gold Member
|#134149 Author: smitha Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 406 Date: 31/Mar/2010 Rating: Points: 4|
Malhar has depicted the issue in a convincing manner. Of course, I had doubts about the woman's bill becoming a success. I felt that the bill would adversely affect our politics. But after going through your opinion, I am convinced that the bill would be successful after it overcomes the initial setbacks.
I also welcome this woman's bill, which is going to change our social structure. As the number of woman members in our parliament increases, there would be more chance for the problems of women who suffer in our nation, to be brought to light and solved. Let us hope that this bill would bring long lasting impacts in the social set up of our nation, and bring our nation to development.
|#134155 Author: Nitst Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 146 Date: 01/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
I wish that the echoes of our voices could be heard in the corridors of those policy makers and think tank sitting in New Delhi. I have enjoyed knowing the viewpoints of everyone in this matter and agree with Mr.Malhar that women do have a very dismal representation in parliament as compared to other professions. It is due to the fact that it has been etched into the minds of people that where power comes into the picture, it is largely a male domain. "Then why not give them the opportunity to do so?" is the quintessential question!
Will it really change the equation if a few seats are kept aside for them? Are we interested only in representation or participation? Yes! There is a difference between the two. Will a woman be granted the necessary space and freedom which has hitherto remained a male bastion? Will a woman who has been deprived of her basic human rights till now be able to establish her merit in the highest echelons of power? I have been desperately trying to find answers to these. I do not doubt a woman's capabilities or the lack of capacities but just trying to state that in the absence of an attitudinal change towards her and a complete independence of thoughts and action meted out to her, this entire exercise is going to be futile and her voice would be stifled and suppressed.
It would be like treating fever with a few pills without treating the disease underlying! The logic may sound naïve but is true under the circumstances. There is another aspect to this bill which seems to have been passed in the midst of blatantly unparliamentary stunts. This has been one of the ugliest displays of vote bank politics in my opinion. The Yadavs who opposed the bill vehemently were catering to their own bank of votes, the Dalits and minorities and the leaders of this campaign were also motivated by votes….of women! So, it is again the petty politics which has come into play rather than any status change for women.
"You can tell the condition of a nation by looking at the status of its women". Some beautiful words said by Jawaharlal Nehru. In the light of this, I think we portray a very sorry state of affairs.
Mr.Amit Siwach and a few others have emphasized that women can turn out to be more sincere, honest and enthusiastic. I do not think that this can act as a solid foundation for supporting the bill. Some of our women leaders are not far behind when it comes to corruption. I feel that honesty, sincerity and corruption are issues which need to be dealt with separately and again without any gender bias. Do not bring women with the intention of washing the dirty linen of politics but simply allow them to actively participate in the process. The only bright side to this is that women can relate well with certain issues pertaining to women and therefore can deal with them more effectively and efficiently and sensitively but the catch line again is if given the freedom to do so.
Another very pertinent issue which has been raised is that the politicians may bring their women kith and kin into the foray. There are two sides to this as well! If they do this, then the basic motive of the bill fails and it falls flat on the faces of its conceivers. Another way of looking at it would be that the politicians will give the posts to women but will not let them rule the roost and use them as rubber stamps as I have stated before! In both the scenarios, politicians have everything to gain and women would end up being scapegoats and compromise on their freedom in front of political muscle power. It is this very scenario that scares me and holds me back from supporting the bill.
My fundamental grouse is that let women be given a fair chance and not just a chance. 'Fair' is not just an Adjective but encompasses a whole lot of changes and upheavals that need to be brought. Women are as capable as men and do not need any bill but what they need is will…will of men in general to accept them as responsible citizens of this country and treat them with the same respect and dignity that they show towards their fellow men I do not want to indulge in a gender war here but my opinion is further reinforced now and I conclude by saying that this bill is just an eyewash…..an old wine in a new bottle and will not serve the purpose of empowering, enlightening and enriching women in any way and is conceptually at fault.. It is never too late to make a new beginning……..We need to take a U turn and change our attitudes first and set our priorities right.
|#134174 Author: Vijay Kumar Vishwakarma Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 331 Date: 01/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
I think feminism, being feminist women empowerment, women reservation etc. are just some highly progressive or fashionable catchwords meaning nothing, or it is just to impress the fair sex. The need is, therefore, to have a holistic and wholesome perspective on the issue of women empowerment so as to uplift their overall status holistically and not just politically alone.
Now, I am going to conclude this topic, that 50% women reservation should be at the PRI levels and with 100% close of economic and social empowerment as has been pointed above in my posted content. When they are holistically empowered at the bottom ar grassroots level itself, results of political empowerment will begin to be shown at the TOP of the Pyramid itself i.e. State legislative Assemblies and the Parliament. Followed thus, there will be more than 50% women representation at the Top naturally, without any crutch of political reservation. Only then, will real women truly represent and mirror the real "Bharat" of ours and not any fake India of handful of rich and powerful be realized and relished by all equally, without any reservations.
"And I am agreed with Gyandeep Kaushal that who is weak, those need reservation, and it declares that Men are Above."
|#134211 Author: Amit Siwach Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 222 Date: 01/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 5|
I respect the views of all members expressed here. All have shown their best knowledge to express their ideas and I believe we are on the right direction to conclude this GD with such appropriate views.
To sum up I believe this decision of women reservation bill will prove another milestone in Indian politics as well as Indian economy and standard of living. We in India consider women with most respectable being on the earth and hence this is the nice way to give them more opportunity and show their hands on experience in the politics and this would not be wrong that we have such faces in the politics which are making our country proud where women made a remarkable appearance in history also.
Let us all say a very best of luck and support the way women should step out from their housewife image to some powerful role in the growth of the country. I hope we will have new generation in politics with more imagination and enthusiasm to give new direction to politics and we will see India in the developed nation list.
New ideas always make difference and this is really a nice step our government has taken. Best of Luck to emerging women power.
ISC Gold Member
|#134568 Author: Malhar Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 433 Date: 03/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 6|
Political thinkers, sociologists and even economists are unanimous in their appraisal of this proposed bill in saying that this bill, if and when passed, will be the most significant act passed after independence. Apprehensions expressed by Nitst and others are a little too far fetched. Talking of politicians who might to push their wives and daughters in fray, they are already imposing their sons and sons-in-laws on the public. Don't we have a Rahul Gandhi, Milind Deora, Ashok chavan, Omar Abdullah, akhilesh Yadav, chandrababu Nayadu, Stalin, Kumarswamy (the list is endless) and many others? How many sons of politicians are deserving? Then why opposition to daughters only?
To me, this is not the main issue. The fact of the matter is that the policy of reservation for women in local bodies has yielded most encouraging results. Over last five years, over a million women have actively participated in the functioning of local bodies like Gram Panchayats and ZP. Many of them have used their power to bring sensitive and real issues like environment, drinking water, sexual harassment on the agenda at the grass roots. It has resulted in making the process of development far more organic. This proposed bill (85th amendment) is a mere extension of the already enacted 73rd and 74th amendments.
This is not to say that the proposed bill is flawless. Yes, there are certain deficiencies in the proposed draft. For instance, the stipulation of determination of 33% seats by rotation is a biggest loophole. In fact, if this bill is passed, the Yadavs who are now opposing it, will exploit this very provision to keep their seats through daughters and wives when the seat is reserved, and next time dump them to come back. Not only this, because different 33% seats will be reserved next time, the sitting MPs and MLAs will have no incentive to be loyal to their constituency.
In the end, I conclude my participation in this discussion by stating that the smooth passage of the proposed bill is the need of the hour. Our democracy has so far failed to provide adequate space to women. Let us give ourselves a chance to rectify this serious flaw.
|#134591 Author: Gyanshankar P. Mishra Member Level: Gold Member Rank: 394 Date: 04/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 3|
In many other strata of life women reservation has been implemented.To examplify this I would like to cite the eg. of higher education, Govt. services, and so on but then there was no opposition to this however when it comes to themselves in the parliament our elected representatives are making a lot of hue and cry about it.
Have a good time.
|#134817 Author: Vandana Member Level: Platinum Member Rank: 7 Date: 05/Apr/2010 Rating: Points: 1|
@ Members: In future, please do not use the bold tag in your responses; many of you are using it for entire sentences and paragraphs too.
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