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  • Category: India

    Should the PM Apologise for His “Conspiring with Pakistan” accusation on Former PM?

    The recent Gujarat Election Campaign had been full of very acrimonious and scathing personal verbal attacks. The second phase of poll witnessed more serious campaigning on a religious basis. The PM forgot "vikas" and concentrated only on polarisation. During complaining he accused Former PM, former Vice President and diplomats of conspiring with Pakistan for Gujarat elections. He said so many things in his style hinting at a conspiracy being hatched against him by the congress leaders like Manishankar Iyer and former PM Manmohan Singh in secret meetings with Pakistani officials. If this is true then this amounts to treason and these leaders must be prosecuted by the government. If this has been said just as another gimmick to win the sympathy of the voters then the PM should apologise for his irresponsible statements. He got a very apt rebuke from Pakistan. They advised him of using his own ability rather than dragging Pakistan in Gujarat elections.

    The PM forgot the bear hugs with then PM of Pakistan, sari exchange and feet touching of the mother of then PM of Pakistan and inviting ISI to inspect the Pathankot air base after a terrorist attack. The PM has degraded the dignity of his constitutional post. Please opine.
  • #619973
    I wanted to raise a thread on this topic yesterday. Good, you have done it. The Prime Minister is not required to apologize. The allegations made by him are very serious in nature. He should get all the people involved arrested and order an inquiry immediately. If the conspiracy allegation by the Prime Minister is made for winning the election, then he should immediately resign and tender an apology to the people on whom he made the allegations and also to the nation.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #619976
    The author must know that our PM Modi is the well informed person as he is more active in social media and the Intelligence agency might have given him enough feed and that made him to make that serious allegation. And being PM he need not stoop to the level of telling lies. We have tracked the presence of Mani Shankar Iyer and his spat with Pakistani leaders on Modi and that enough indication and belief to the public that PM said was right and he need not apologise. In politics mudslinging do happen and these are part of those verbal dual and we need not discuss much on these issues.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #619991
    Now that the elections are over, results are out it would be a matter of few days before this issue is raised once more for further clarifications. There was a report earlier that the opposition leaders met the Vice president and indications are that , a clarification from the PM would be insisted rather than an apology.

    There are two simple options, both parties know what each has stated, the reasons and the sources. I'm sure there would be an explanation with some evidence to support the comment made by the PM or at least a series of credible events and people linking in chronological order that would be indirect evidence to support the claim made by Mr.Narendra Modi. Such allegations are too serious to be ignored, I think it was put on the back burner with the elections, counting and results. Now we would get an idea about it. Both sides have made remarks that would be inappropriate.

    The best would be a Central 2-3 man team with one legal expert/SC member and one intelligence officer of repute to quickly verify the facts ( some facts may be difficult to put out in the public domain) and submit their report in a month's time. Then one from either side can apologize and the other can accept.

  • #620014
    It is not that PM has to ask apology for what he said. A person at the highest position will not or should not make any statements of conflict without any indication or information with him. Prime Minister may be having some information about this issue. As already the opposition leaders met the Vice President(Basing on the above Post), he may ask for a clarification or his point of view from the PM. The matter will also come definitely for discussion in the Parliament. A committee may be constituted and may study and enquire into the facts and a report may be submitted to President or vice president and an action in the concerned may be taken as required.
    But in India, these types of issues are increasing rather thinking of development of the country more time of these highly paid politicians is getting wasted on these matters. A thought should be given to stop these types of points.

    always confident

  • #620025
    I don't understand a simple issue. The meeting was held, despite it had earlier been denied. It was held without the presence of any MEA officials. Some people said that a conspiracy was hatched in the meeting. They said this because a top retired general of Pakistan opined that Ahmed Patel should be the Chief Minister of Gujarat. After the meeting, the host made his 'neech' comment.

    On the other hand, some people said that Gujarat election was not discussed in the meeting. My question is: Why are we supporting this narrative? Why not the other one?

    Why are we asking the Prime Minister to seek apology? Why aren't we asking those present in the meeting to attend this meeting at such crucial time, without the presence of any serving MEA officers, to apologise?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620041
    The point was clarified earlier in another thread and my proximity to internal matters of governance was questioned therein. At the risk of being questioned again, let me ask why Sri Modi, as the Prime Minister of India (not only Gujarat) left it at that? Why was this point which is related to the security of the nation restricted to political speeches in Gujarat and was not taken ahead? Why didn't Sri Modi order an inquiry into the matter? What stopped him from using the various options available to him? It was not an allegation against an X or Y; it was an allegation against a former Prime Minister of India and Sri Modi is morally and legally bound to convince the nation that what he has said is true. In case he has any doubt and is convinced that the statement was just part of the Gujarat Election Script, he has to apologize; not just to individuals but to India as a nation. Why is he hesitant? As I have just mentioned in a response to another thread, people are becoming hesitant when it comes to facts.

    Sri Narendra Modi has to either clarify his allegation or has to order an inquiry and bring the culprits to books. It is not something simple (?) as promising toilets for all!

    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #620043
    it will be an individual thinking about which party they support. Congress supporter will blame and try to make BJP down and BJP supporter will try to do the same. The allegations will continue as who is the better on each other. Leave the PM or whoever for asking an apology. My simple question is those who are jumping to ask apology from the PM, do they apologise when they do mistakes? I am sure then they run to hide their face or to use their power to forcefully stop the person who blaming them. The thing is before asking for an apology from others, once look at first if he/she is doing perfectly fine? Here people do all the wrong thing and jump in fight for asking apology from others? Interesting indeed!

  • #620103
    Now this has become a question of credibility of the PM. The PM has to take action against such serious act as he mentioned. Otherwise people will take it as a sympathy stunt by the PM.

  • #620105
    I fully agree with Sunilkanth's view. It is a question of credibility of the Prime Minister Narendra Modi. There are only two alternatives. One is that the Prime Minister should order inquiry about Manishankar Aiyar "Supari" and the conspiracy of the Ex Vice-President, Ex-Prime Minister, Ex-Army Chief and other participants of the meeting and dinner held at the house of Manishankar Aiyar in Delhi. The allegation made by the Prime Minister is a serious one and about the security of the country. Immediate action is required.
    On the other hand, if the Prime Minister made these accusations without any proof and only on hearsay and assumptions, the Prime Minister should resign and apologize to the persons accused and to the entire nation.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620115
    ".....the Prime Minister should resign and apologize to the persons accused and to the entire nation."-Why doesn't the former PM apologise for attending such questionable meeting with a controversial host and a controversial guest?

    Again reiterating the famous slogan:" Modi is at fault. Modi must resign". Who have patented this slogan?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620155
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #620160
    One way to get a counter view is to see how one would feel to stand in other's shoes. Let's assume that this statement of supari being given and allegations of a conspiracy were to being raised by Mr. Rahul Gandhi against Mr. Amit Shah, what would be our expectations with respect to the BJP's reaction, Mr.Modi demands and how Mr.Rahul Gandhi should have or would have defended his statement. What would be acceptable to us.

  • #620162
    Natarajan, why deviate from the main topic? Shri Narendra Modi is the Prime Minister of India! Why doesn't he order an inquiry if there was a conspiracy? Such serious allegations, especially those in which people in position are involved, cannot be made the subject of any loose talk. I am reiterating my earlier statement that the allegation raised by none other than the Prime Minister (and not a BJP leader) is to be taken seriously and is not so simple as his other slogans and speeches including the promise of 'Toilets for All'. Let Sri Modi order an inquiry if he has the guts.
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #620163
    Why do you sidestep from the main point? You are trying to keep aside what has happened and trying to create a hypothetical situation. This not what I expect from you. We all have our leanings. That does not mean blind support. In the 2G scam case, all the accused are acquitted by the CBI court. What has the BJP got to say now?

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620164
    "I think we are all educated and knowledgeable. Let us not cling on to beliefs without any grounds. Your response at #620115 is too childish and does not suit the Degrees you claim to have possessed."

    (a) Why my response is too childish? Is it because I dare to challenge the so-called liberals? Why should I believe Dr. Manmohan Singh's version? Why should I believe Manishankar Aiyar's version, when I do know their mindset about Indo-Pakistan relationship? Why should I believe a person who tried to hand over Siachen on a platter to Pakistan? Why should I believe a person who openly asked Pakistanis to help him (and his party) to overcome electeed Government? If you can answer these questions, answer these logically. Who has given you the right to call others responses 'childish'? Answer the question: Why should I believe MMS or MSA instead of our Prime Minister?
    (b) I have already submitted the photocopies of all of my degrees (not all mentioned here) to my office, because I was required to do so. If required, I can also post the copies to you entirely at my own expense provided you forward your postal address. Is it necessary, Sir?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620179
    Mr.Saji and Mr.KVRR, sorry if things are not clear. I've not sidestepped the issue, I have made myself clear on 20th Dec(#61991), that he has to order a central 2-3 man team who can review the facts and then one can apologize and the other can accept. It means if Mr.Modi is wrong, then he has to apologize, if he's right, then Mr.Rahul has to apologize.

  • #620181
    Mr. Natarajan: You have to openly support a particular narrative. You don't have the right to express your opinion freely. Many people don't understand there may be a view which is between 'yes' or 'no'. If they say 'yes' and if I say 'no', they will question my educational qualification (I am least bothered though). If you say something which is neither 'yes', nor 'no', they will term it 'side-stepping'.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620182
    Partha, I am seeking an answer; nothing else.My question is straight. Can you respond with the same conviction? I doubt!
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #620186
    My answer is also simple. As I was not present in the meeting, I don't know what happened there. Government has various methods to know what happened during the meeting. There is no question of tendering apology by the PM, because very few people of the country would believe the version of Dr. MMS and MSA, whose mindset towards Pakistan is well-known to all (except a few). Most of the people would not believe in the version of these two.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620189
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #620191
    I haven't written anything which is shameful. What I have written is factually correct, but it may not be palatable to all.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620193
    @ Partha: Why do you always try to spread things which are not true? What do you know about Siachen? Why is such an agreement arrived at? I am doubting your interpretation of history. You want to interpret in your way with utter disregard to facts.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620195
    @ Natarajan: How can you place Rahul Gandhi in another's position and try to get a reaction? Who made those statements? It is Modiji. How can you ask others to put Rahul in place of Modiji and get a reaction?
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620368
    I am finding that the discusssion is losing its track. My tread is very clear about the accusation of the PM. When the PM makes some allegation, that is to be beleived. There is no question of beleiving other people. I found that the meeting was pre planned and the people who attended the meeting are provided with Z-type of security. There can not be any secret element in it. The Pakistanis ,who are said to be the part of the meeting, got visa from MEA.

    The opposition only demanding the explanation of the PM on this issue. This is the duty of the PM to resolve this issue by giving explanation in the Parliament. The PM finds time to attend the wedding reception of a cricketer and do not find time to go to the Parliament. This raises suspicion about his integrity and credibility. He is left with two options only. 1. to take action against the persons involved or 2. to seek apology for the falsehood he spread for the electoral gain.

  • #620369
    The Government must not proceed without proper investigation process. The recent verdict in 2G scam has proved this. The Government must take its own time and properly investigate the matter and involved people so that it can possess proper evidence.

    The Prime Minister must not fall in the trap of the opposition parties and their supporters. They will go on criticizing every step of him. He must follow his own course exposing the anti-national people and their activities.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620379
    From whatever I have read from the media reports I am of the following opinion:
    1. A person of the highest level like PM had uttered such accusations personally in public, and hence it is a serious matter. It gets so much attention from people because one of the persons whose name figures in the allegations is former prime minister. This combination makes the matter very very serious.
    2. Having spoken and created doubts on the minds of the whole country, it is the moral and political responsibility of Sri Modi to justify what the said and establish his side genuineness by ordering a thorough investigation on the matter, by established legal investigation process.
    3. Had he uttered those allegations, carried away by the election campaign spirit to sway the votes, and the matter is misinformation and not a real fact, then political propriety and moral norms demand that Modiji should publicly apologise for that.
    4. If the opposition is so sure that the said meeting was so naive and pure and nothing happened there which can be doubted or misinterpreted , then they should file a criminal defamation suit against Sri Modi. As the PM had said it in a public meeting, I think the special protection and insulation may not apply to this matter.
    5. It is not convincing me that instead of filing a defamation suit or taking the matter to the public and exposing the lies if so, uttered by Sri Modi, the Congress party is blocking Parliament functions
    6. Hence I feel that the real core of the matter is something in between total lie and total truth. There may be something which the Congress cannot fully absolve itself of and there is something which the BJP or PM cannot fully establish too.
    7. The matter will ultimately end by some other understandings after the Parliament functions are blocked the whole session, which might suit both sides.
    8. The people of this country will start losing faith i them if their PM utters lies and spreads canards on a former PM jus for winning a state election. The country also cannot condone a former PM if he is having informal and private dialogue and meeting with those who want to disturb the peace and political stability of this country.
    9. The chaff and grain has to be separated. As Arnab Goswami debates tag line goes, 'the nation wants to know.'..

  • #620401
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  • #620433
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620434
    Whose responsibility is it to prove the guiltiness of a person? The accused or accuser?
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620438
    1. I am not bothered if I am provoked by others. I stick to my own view unless I am myself convinced. I have been provoked many a time everyday. I respond in a manner which I deem fit. Since my childhood I have this habit of asking awkward questions and I have received punishment for my habit. Here also I am ready to face consequences of my awkward questions.

    2. Under some specific circumstances, even if a person (or Government) knows something specific, it is not possible to mention these in public. Only the ultimate conclusion can be stated.

    3. Judicial process functions in such manner where a person is treated not guilty until the guilt is proved. As a result many guilty people somehow managed to save their skin.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620446
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]

  • #620449
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620450
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #620451
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #620452
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