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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Will the MeToo movement in India create more secure work places for both women and men?

    All of you will be aware of the #MeToo movement in India on the lines of the global movement to speak up about sexual harassment. Every day now some more courageous women are speaking out against their harrowing experiences. What about men facing such harassment in various sectors? Will they also speak up? Will they, too, seek action against those who were the perpetrators even if it was many years ago that they experienced it?

    We will not discuss the specific cases, but about whether the #MeToo movement is a turning point. Will the place of work become safer? Will the predators become extinct? Or is it that this is just the sort of thing which becomes a major news byte for a while and then simply dies out, with nothing really changing? Other than speaking out and seeking legal redress, what measures should be taken to ensure such harassment for both men and women should not occur in the first place?
  • #650329
    This #MeToo movement has brought into light the sexual exploitation/harassment of ladies (even of some eminent ladies) into the limelight, but I don't think such movement would improve the situation. Because, I have a feeling that in some cases, the old incidents are being made public for the purpose of revenge, and not for preventing future incidents.

    Immediate reporting of exploitation cases and strong action against the offenders would be far more effective.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #650335
    I am dead sure that #Me Too movement won't be effective. As you said - This is just the sort of thing which becomes a major news byte for a while and then simply dies out, with nothing really changing. Nothing much can be said about it. It will go on as long as there are appeal and re-appeal in the courts of law.
    No life without Sun

  • #650372
    Retired Supreme Court Judge Mr. Markandey Katju has written an article on The Week where he mocked the movement. The article headlined "MeToo movement is gimmick & ploy, aping of 'goras'", The former Judge made the following points in the said article:

    1. Everyone knows Bollywood and Media are exploitative. Women are speaking now because the 'goras' did it in the USA.
    2. People are 'aping the west' with this #MeToo movement because Indians have an inferiority complex.
    3. Sexual harassment being given prominence now is a 'diversionary move'.
    4. Sexual harassment 'should be condemned' but the much bigger problems of the people are poverty, unemployment, poor healthcare, malnourishment, lack of good education, farmers' distress, price rise, atrocities on minorities, etc.
    5. Mr. Katju also said that the 'rulers' have failed to tackle the 'major problems' and hence diverting attention to these 'lesser problems' and convincing the people that these are the 'only problems'.
    6. Some allegations might be incorrect too.

    Although we may not agree to all the arguments of the Retired Judge, I broadly agree to his conclusion that #MeToo movement won't be very effective in reducing sexual harassment in working places. Other methods are necessary.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #650377
    Personally, I feel with the introduction of the Nirbhay act, the sexual harassments at workplaces have reduced. Any complaint received from any female worker will be viewed seriously and the committee appointed under this act will be conducting the enquiry and management will be taking the action deemed fit. In our Organisation when I was heading the operations, I received a complaint and enquiry conducted and the employee who found guilty was removed from services. The women employee was given the freedom of proceeding legally still she wants some severe punishment.
    When something wrong is happening it should be spelt out immediately. But keeping silent at that time for some unknown reasons and venting out the feelings after the lapse of so many years is of no use. Medicine is required when we are ill. But not after death.
    So I feel 'Me Too" cases should be immediately after the issue happens, then only it will improve the environment in any place. So I feel the impact may not be very high with the present movement.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #650421
    Following in the footsteps of the West is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, being inspired by the global movement and opening up about such predators is something to be applauded, especially in a society which discourages women to speak up and, instead, continue to have the mindset that women should remain submissive and simply adjust.

    And in no way is sexual harassment a "lesser" problem. It is a problem. A very big one at that.

    Thanks to the digital world, people get a platform to put forth their cases. They may not file legal cases against the predators, since they know how slow the legal machinery is in our country, with the possibility of justice being denied in the form of punishment for the offenders. At least, through social media, they are able to name and shame them. Yet, there are so many who do not even have this platform. The domestic servants, the factory workers, the construction site labourers - what recourse do they have when they are faced with sexual harassment? How to ensure that they, too, should have secure places of work? Will the people who hire them take measures to ensure this?

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #650427
    I feel that this type of online movements bring a lot of awareness in the society and awareness is the basic thing for bringing reforms and cures for social evils.

    Me Too movement is not a magic stick that it will solve everything at one go. This is only a beginning and definitely there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    Let us hope that with collective efforts of the society at large these evils will be eradicated.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #650441
    I think, this campaign is creating insecure work places. This movement will have very dangerous consequences. This is a double edged sword campaign.
    Now the women have confidence to come forward about being exploited without fear of public backlash. At the same time men are fearful of approaching women, even working with women. I came to know that some employers are started stopping hiring women employees. No one wants potential legal issues in their offices. It is bad for businesses. In this environment men and women cannot work together.
    Things are moving in such a way that people need to have a "consent form" prior to consensual sex to protect both the parties. Is the society moving towards that?
    Only education can change the society's perception on men and women. Do not stay rigid in the ideal of sexes. Treat men and women as individuals. We want to work together for the future society.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650479
    I am not surprised by some of the responses posted here. Not one member acknowledges that a problem exists. Instead, a member has gone on to ascribe reasons for why the women have chosen to speak now. How easily they enter into a woman's mind and soul to determine the reasons behind their voices.

    But, can't blame such fellows, they portray the face of our ugly society. They represent the misogynist culture that is inbred. In this thread, not one man has shown solidarity towards the victims.

    It takes courage to speak up because sexual harassment can be a frightening experience. These women need support, not questions on why now or assumptions behind their reasons. Questioning their timing is also saying that it is fine to allow the culprits to get away scot-free. For that is what would happen if these voices don't ever come out.

    Why is the judge being quoted here, don't members have a mind of their own? Justice Katju has also made many scathing remarks, against the Government – why are his comments seen as 'right' only on selective matters? This careful selection of comments, illustrate the biases that exist. Anyone who parrots your sentiments is good enough to be quoted.

    The #MeToo movement may have come from the 'goras', but so have your pant and shirt and the briefs that you wear, under your pants. If you belonged to the 'kachcha' brigade, then it would serve well to quote the ex-judge. The thing is, wearing western attire doesn't make one civilised or gentlemanly, the thought process remains crass and philistine. You ape the west in almost everything and have the impudence to refer to this movement as a western thing.

    Following a cause that women stand up against isn't a western thing, at all. They choose to tell their stories of the ordeal. What the catalyst was, should not be questioned. If an iota of decency exists in people, they would stand in support of these women. For who knows, tomorrow, it could be one of their daughters, and we'd have people questioning their reasons.

    The #MeToo movement has empowered women, to speak up against their perpetrators. It has given them courage, and they are calling out men who have sexually harassed them. Men today are scared, especially those who are guilty of the crime. The fear of being named and shamed is making them come out with all kinds of excuses. What stops these men from recognizing the truth and agreeing that wrongs have been done?

    The problem may not go away completely, that would be too much of a utopian world. But, yes, this movement might bring down the cases of harassment. Men will think twice before they indulge in improper behaviour. There are many skeletons in the closet, waiting to tumble out, and I say cheers to the women who are bringing down men. Let's not be worried about why they are doing it, let's be happy that the ugly faces are being made public.

    Neeraj, brought up consensual sex; isn't that contradictory to your stand in another thread, the one on inter-caste marriages? How can you be rigid on one issue regarding the sexes and overly liberal on a subject that is still taboo in our country? Isn't premarital sex or consensual sex outside the parameters of marriage, considered immoral, not in law, but by moral guardians?

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650482
    I must clarify that I don't have any objection to this movement, but I doubt that such a movement would be effective.

    The workplace harassment of girls is prevalent in some particular industries/professions, and this happens only because ladies in the industry remain silent when such incident occurs due to various reasons. Mentioning these facts after 10 years generally doesn't help.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #650484
    I request members to please remain within limits and maintain a balance while posting your views on this topic. Let us express our thoughts in a decent manner and have a free and fair discussion.

    As for the campaign in question now, I have a doubt as to why only cases involving celebrities and other known faces are being brought up in this campaign.

    I think some fear was already instilled in men when more and more cases of sexual harassments started being reported, especially after the Nirbhaya case. But have we failed in filtering the fear to the men at the lower levels? I think so.

    I personally feel that campaigns like #metoo may help in creating an awareness and may also help in creating a fear and may make men think twice before making any indecent advances against women, but as a matter of fact, I am more concerned about the divide it creates between the two genders and the possible social repercussions. I am not talking about the educated and people who are at a higher level in the society, I am talking about those (including the educated) who do not understand the issue in its totality due to whatever reasons.

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #650486
    I don't agree that time changes anything. Sexual harassment cases being discussed are making us sit up and take notice. Sexual predators are being unmasked. We are seeing the true faces of men in high positions.

    Big names make big news, and that is the obvious reason. The celebrities are powerful men, controlling the industries that they work in. The victims, if you hear their stories, have maintained that they thought that they wouldn't be believed. Their families and co-workers dissuaded them from talking about it, leave alone lodging a complaint. Yes, women were scared that their careers would be ruined – and they kept silent. But, they were also traumatised.

    But, that does not mean that the incidents didn't happen or that if the women have been quiet for so long, they shouldn't be speaking about it now.

    Not much changed after the Nirbhaya case. We hear of rapes, every day.

    There is no need for fear of a divide between the genders. If men behave decently and know their limits, there should be no cause for social repercussions.

    Saji, "…I am talking about those who do not understand the issue in its totality." Not understood, kindly elaborate.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650487
    I think this type of movement will be effective and such cases of sexual harassment will get reduced.

    Females who used to fear or used to feel embarrassment are opening up so there are possibility that such cases will reduce.

    Recently I was reading in the news thats famous cricketer Lasith Malinga was also involved in such incident. A singer Sripaada claimed that she was harassed by this cricketer in a hotel at Mumbai during IPL season. She didn't complain at that time as she thought nothing would happen as he is so famous that no one would take an action on him.

    This is what I feel ladies fear to complain against famous people and celebrities take advantage of it and don't stop doing it. May be this type of movement will stop them.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #650502
    How my statement in this thread is viewed as contradictory with my comments in another thread?
    I am pointing out here, is that there is a drastic change happening in the society in the aftermath of this campaign, that will lead ultimately to that level which I mentioned in #650441.I am talking in a global context as the campaign is spreading globally.
    I don't think that this campaign will ensure betterment in the society.An accusation,a rumor can destroy a person's career/life.This campaign is creating rift between men and women.I have a doubt that this agenda is not driven by good people.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650510
    "Adultery is not a crime" is a recent judgment pronounced by the honorable Supreme court of India. This judgment paves way for many to find other partners for sex. This will also encourage the men and women for sexual harassment to fulfill their desire. Some may get it right, and some would fail. It would be a sheer luck to get it satisfactorily or or get caught with no escape route. Hence I do not think #MeToo movement will be that effective as expected to be.
    No life without Sun

  • #650525
    It appears a strange coincidence that Supreme Court does not mind in making a relationship with women out side the family. Such relationship would work as a catalysis for some of upper class people to seek extra pleasure with making illicit relationship.
    If the issues are to be taken in right persepective, we need to adhere to the path of discipline so that the society follows healthy rules where no women - folk should be afraid to go outside even in the nights in case of emergency. Following healthy rules would definitely have a better impact on the mind - set of Youngesters. They would start behaving rationally if healthy atmosphere is created.
    I am shocked to see the news of rape of minors at regular intervals apart from loots, arson, dacoity, burglary etc happening in different places. To curb all these menace, we will have to cleanse the entire system which need involvements of all sensetive people from the different cross - section of the society.

  • #650526
    The problem is that wherein the fake blames are on increase with having no proofs attached to it, how this movement can be justified. Being a human being & irrespective of the sexes we all are prone to feel some sort of physical need which is quite natural but being woman on a soft corner they get the maximum favor from the society. Not justifying the injustices of any kind & to anyone but strictly in context to the "MeToo movement".

    #650421 / Vandana, your argument that, "They may not file legal cases against the predators, since they know how slow the legal machinery is in our country, with the possibility of justice being denied in the form of punishment for the offenders", who is actually responsible for all this & is this being taken by each one of us? For comparatively suppressed sections of society this could be the fact but for capable sections who got the money & power are too remained silenced for too long years but speaking after 10 long years is out of my mind & understanding. But what you want to prove when you write, "At least, through social media, they are able to name and shame them", how do we come know about the reliability of their sayings or comments in context to some other personalities. Don't you feel that this would incur fear into the minds of innocents who never had involved on those acts?

    #650484 / Saji Ganesh, I don't agree with when you say that, "I personally feel that campaigns like #metoo may help in creating an awareness and may also help in creating a fear and may make men think twice before making any indecent advances against women", because these are seasonal trends like we post on Facebook wherein few are posted by us but many more are published & shared by others without knowing the basis or the fact but very well said when you write, "I am more concerned about the divide it creates between the two genders and the possible social repercussions".

  • #650527
    "Misogyny is when women finally start reporting sexual assaults and the country's response is to say we must protect our boys from the accusations."

    I found this quote on my facebook page.

    So true. You guys are questioning the women - what guarantee is there that you all wouldn't have done the same had they reported the crime when it happened? Anyway, men have started taking to the social media and begun apologising. FIRs have been registered. More women are coming forward to speak against the same men. But, yes, let's protect the boys, because that is more important, right!

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650530
    1. I would be very happy if FIRs have been filed in some cases. But I didn't know that.

    2. The fact that many of such cases were not reported earlier, sometime even for 10 years, creates an impression in the mind of common people. These less-informed people start wondering what prevented these emancipated ladies to report these incidents as soon as these happened. This doubt will linger.

    3. All said and done, these accused people must be given proper punishment, irrespective of their political affiliations and how much powerful they are in their own professions.

    4. If this #MeToo movement is with a high ideal, it will succeed. But if it is used for blackmailing purpose, it won't.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #650532
    I feel that the #MeToo movement is like a gun in the wrong hands to shoot at an innocence. I am sure, this will be misused by many women who have grudge against men who are not of their liking.
    No life without Sun

  • #650533
    I would like to ask the following two questions to all the readers:
    Anybody is thinking that men are powerful by treating women as submissive?
    At the same time, why girls like romantic novels with a dominant charming male character?
    Men and women are God's creation. We should not change the design!

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650536
    As created by God, men are attracted sex and women are attractive sex. Hence, they both get attracted if liked, or distracted if they are not liked. In any office or in any organisation or work places, a lady should be bold enough to warn the men for their wrong doings, if not liked by them. In this present world, where women are in a commanding position both at home and in offices, they should not dare to check the men for their misbehaviour.

    Why#MeToo after a long absence of their silence. Women should not hesitate to report the harassment then and there, if any. They should strike the iron while it is hot. #MeToo might get changed into #YouToo.

    No life without Sun

  • #650540
    Neeraj,

    I suppose India fits into the "global context". And given our numbers, it must fit more than other nations.

    Why are you averse to the change that is happening? What makes you assume it is not for the good? All you can worry about is the repercussions it will have on people's career and life. What of the emotional, mental and physical toll that it takes on women? I don't think it's alright for women to go on with their lives, frightened and scared of men that surround them. Especially, men in authority, who use power and position to exploit easy targets.

    Haven't understood your question properly. But, the men in the discussion are powerful men, who have a clout in the industries that they work in.

    What romantic novels are you talking about, with the dominant charming male character? Have you read any of these novels? And even if women like 'reading' romantic novels, does that mean every Tom, Dick or Harry can impose themselves on these women? You have perhaps not heard of the word 'NO'.

    And you have the nerve to involve your god into this. You don't want a change because your god designed it? Is that so; do your scriptures order men to grope, molest, rape and sodomise women? Who taught you this little fact?

    Perhaps, you don't realise how ludicrous and inane your comments are?

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650549
    @650540
    It seems you misunderstood my questions.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650551
    Juana, when I say that, my reference is to a whole lot of men who may not be aware of the legal position or of campaigns like this. They may be getting some news in tits and bits but they may not be in a position to understand. When I say that, I don't mean that a person needs to be literate or educated enough to know that a woman is to be respected as an individual.

    Coming on to the thread, since the debate is in full swing, with due respect to members of both the genders, I am seeking a clarification. Can anyone categorically say that there were/are no woman who has exploited/ exploit this weak emotion that men entertain towards women? There were and there are women who have exploited/ exploit men in different positions to further their personal interests.

    Further, we need to understand the social and legal changes that have taken place in the recent past. We cannot compare the situation that was prevalent in India about fifteen years back to what it is now. Otherwise, why should a woman who was shy or scared to speak out or complain about such things in the past is now coming out bravely and with a lot of vigor?

    So instead of playing a blame game, we should analyze the issue from different angles without being biased and then ask the question whether such incidents will keep on repeating. There is no point in taking sides and trying to find fault with each other if we want to move ahead.

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #650556
    Neeraj, Is that your only response?

    Saji,
    Are you sympathising with men who remain unaware of the legal implications of sexual harassment? What a lame argument. However, in stating your point, you have also accepted that this is a bigger issue, and it spreads across social divides.

    I have said this before, and I say it again. Why is it that every time there is a discussion about sexual harassment you bring in your arguments about women exploiting men? Is it appropriate to do so; why don't you raise a separate thread with real-life instances and then we can discuss this there. Even if women use their female charm to ensnare men, does it lessen the crime that is being discussed here? And men fall for that trap – why are they so weak? Can they not display self-control? Let men who have been exploited come out and speak, bring about their own #MeToo campaigns. Let's see how many men will come out and speak of consensual affairs and extramarital relationships, initiated by women, set out to exploit them.

    Let me remind you when men become willing partners, and knowingly jump into illicit relationships, it cannot be termed as exploitation; it is a trade-off.

    I am stunned by your last paragraph where you mention "without being biased" when you have shown your bias with your comments on women exploiting men.

    If I support a cause, I have to take sides, otherwise, my stand would be neutral. The sexual harassment charges made against some of the bigwigs are a matter of concern. I have already made my stand clear – I think this campaign will have an impact. Women need a safer world to live in.

    What was that slogan – 'Beti Bachao', now is the time to act.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650557
    Men highly respect women and will not harm women by having a #MeToo campaign by men. What I mainly observed is - It is the film females and Media females, and also in politics, females have opened up their mind to # MeToo campaign. In Filmdom, the adjustment is more and harassment is not known. Till date, the women were with adjustments for their survival and betterment. Now someone has renamed adjustment as harassment. Time and things changes.
    No life without Sun

  • #650559
    Juana, did you miss out on the last sentence in that paragraph which reads as 'When I say that, I don't mean that a person needs to be literate or educated enough to know that a woman is to be respected as an individual'?

    Here we are discussing whether campaigns like this would reduce the sexual harassment of women in workplaces and in that context I was just stating a related fact. Isn't what I stated true? I was not trying to blame women on that count. I was just trying to say that blaming all men on these counts is not fair. Why can't we be fair enough to discuss the other side too? I will never say that men should fall into such traps laid by women but then doesn't the women laying such traps become equally liable? Let us not glorify all the women who made exposure of their bad experiences at the hands of men. When a point like this is being discussed we should bring out the other side in some women too so that the discussion does not become onesided. We need to discuss both the sides to see whether #metoo or other campaigns like this would bring in the desired results. This is what I feel.

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #650562
    The time is not far away for the men to start a #YouToo campaign to help the men who have been harassed and cheated in workplaces. The MeToo campaign should be for both the sexes.

    There could be many untold and unfolded stories of harassment to men by women.

    No life without Sun

  • #650563
    Powerful men have taken advantage of their positions. Some women allowed those men to take advantage of themselves for various reasons including career considerations. The opposite is also true.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #650570
    @650540
    I will try to come to your points straight away.
    You mentioned that men in authority use power and position to exploit easy targets.
    Why is it so? How men are getting power and positions? Why not women?
    Women in power don't exploit easy targets?
    Men in discussion are powerful men who have clout in the industries that they work. How they got so much clout?
    I never make inane comments.
    It is great for all women to speak up against perverts. In this new exciting world, it is easy to name and shame anybody. I also heard, under this campaign women speaking up against the people those who left the world several years.

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650572
    What a double-talk Sun, you quote "Men highly respect women…" and yet you hold adamantly to the point that women should be submissive and adjust and everything like a slave. You have no intention of making safe environment except in words only, and only words here.

    Am in full agreement with Juana. One woman speaking out here and the guys are offering lame excuses and reasonings, and not facing up to reality. I bet when some of these men start the MeToo for men, they will accuse Juana of harassment and intimidation etc. for not letting you get away with your pompous egotistic attitudes.

    Do the other women in ISC feel safe to write here without some guys hammering them down to submissive mode? If so, then I would encourage them to create new ID/email and access this site from another device other than their usual computer/phone.

  • #650575
    This movement is very much on the right lines. It is quite true that the incidents had happened years ago. Yet, when women speak out, that itself seems to be appreciated. This movement will make any perverted man sit up and take notice.

    We recently had a video on YouTube that was circulated widely. The Chairman of the SNS group, a very old crook, now 64 years old was virtually seen running after a girl, unmarried and just around 23 years old. This was shocking to say the least. It happened at Coimbatore very recently.

    The Chairman is a very rich businessman and some kind of a compromise has been reached. How did this happen?

    Is it because someone is so rich, he can try to kiss his own clerk? I think this movement will bring some in some improvement in security of women at work.

  • #650599
    In one of the responses, Neeraj mentioned a serious repercussion of this movement, that he knows some employers who have stopped hiring women employees to avoid potential legal issues, that it is bad for businesses and that in such environment men and women cannot work together. What to say of such employers! Instead of taking proactive measures to ensure that employees do not feel insecure and are not faced with harassment, the employer stops recruiting women.

    Ved Prakash questions the reliability of the allegations. There are both sides to this - one, where it is the case that when a really larger than life personality is accused, automatically there is total disbelief and the accuser is dismissed as being an untruthful person, merely doing it for publicity; the other side - it is genuinely possible that the wrong person gets accused or some third party gets involved unknowingly and is considered a 'partner' in the crime (for example, an accused used another actor's phone to make lewd calls and send lewd messages).

    As to why bring up an old case of sexual harassment now - why not? Should there be a "shubh muhurat" (auspicious time) to reveal the disgusting behaviour of a predator? Whether it is a gap of a few hours or many years, let the world know what kind of person the predator is. Sooner than never, so that others do not fall prey to such people.

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #650601
    I would say that the observation by Neeraj is correct. Why invite trouble to women folks. The employer must have thought 'Precaution is better than cure'. The suffering and loss would be to the employer, not a few women who can choose to have better employers. Only two hands can make a clapping sound( problems). Why not have only a single hand to have no problem? The employer can have either only males or only females. It is better to avoid keeping cotton and fire in one place.

    Ved Prakash Anand too right. Why reveal the secrets kept safely in cold storage after many decades, or when an accused is no more? Let the #MeToo movement be fresh with new and hot cases. It could be to gain popularity and get publicity by the shameless celebrities.

    No life without Sun

  • #650603
    Odium is illuminating of a person's character. What one says, writes and does under its impact echo the dark and sordid recesses of their cognizant morality and conscience a lot more than those we seek to castigate.

    Neeraj,

    Why stop at the questions you popped. Let's dig a little deeper – find out whom these people were born to, their caste and ethnicity, their political allegiance. Let's deviate some more, because yes, answering the 'why's' is so relevant.

    It's easy to see you have nothing to add, and so, ramble insignificant questions.

    Saji,

    I still feel that your point should have been raised in a separate thread, with a reference to this thread. Honeytrap and sexual harassment are two different issues. In the first the man is a 'willing' partner, driven by lust; in the other, the man is a 'predator', also driven by lust. In the former situation, the man has a choice of refusing the temptation.

    To explain further, there have been incidents where men in top ranks have been thrown out of service and punished for their misdemeanours and misconduct - the authorities don't look at such entrapments as exploitation.

    [Edited by forum editor - last para removed as taking thread off-track. ]

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650606
    "Can anyone categorically say that there were/are no woman who has exploited/ exploit this weak emotion that men entertain towards women?" - this is not sexual harassment, Saji, and would be a separate topic. We are talking about men harassing women as brought up by the #MeToo movement, wherein these women are not those who deliberately laid traps to entice men.

    [Edited by forum editor - opening para removed as taking the thread off-track.]

    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)

  • #650608
    Sun,
    Thanks for noting my observations in this regard. Employers are started thinking that "why invite trouble"?

    Almost all professional companies in India are having laid down policies for safety for women at work places and also there are grievances redressal forum internally. If not there, force them to put the system in place. That should be the real campaign. Instead of utilizing that facility, simply coming out in the street and saying that so and so person sexually tortured on so and so dates and shaming people, will serve any purpose?

    Yes It will serve some purpose, it can improve the rating of TV channels, newspaper circulations etc.
    It is sad that people don't want to know the real reasons behind all these atrocities.
    So, let us enjoy the shaming games of Metoo revelations!
    Today also I heard two new names!
    Let us enjoy!!

    I love chocolates and ice creams!

  • #650609
    Duplicate
    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650610

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650612

    No life without Sun

  • #650613
    Okay then. I will raise a separate thread, later, on the points that I would like to bring up here not actually because I agree to the contention by Juana or the author but because I feel that my points, which are equally important or maybe more, may go unnoticed in this midst. Further, I do not want this thread to be derailed on this pretext.

    Juana, you have not given a clarification to my query at #650559.

    Bala at #650572, why not take it positively? Instead of saying that all the men are trying to hammer Juana down, why can't it be seen that Juana is standing strong all alone against all the men (I still believe I had taken a balanced stand though)? Nothing would change unless there is a change in our perceptions.

    Anyway, I am off this thread. Hope to see you all in the thread I would be raising later.

    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #650620
    Saji,
    I did not understand your question, to my question, in #650559. I don't see the connection between the first part of your answer, and the second part that is repeated.

    I look forward to your thread. And I hope that you will put across real cases that are in the public domain, like the #MeToo stories, so members (like me) can relate to them and participate in the discussion. If you think it is fine to draw parallels and compare the #MeToo movement with the exploitation cases, then bring it on. But, do submit factual incidents that have made news, not locker room talk, or hearsay.

    "A love affair with knowledge will never end in heartbreak." -Michael Garrett Marino

  • #650622

    No life without Sun

  • #650714
    Juana, you asked whether I was sympathising with those who were unaware of the legal implications by quoting the first part of my paragraph in my response at #650551, I wanted you to also look into the second part where I have said that I don't think a person needs to be literate or educated to know that a woman should be respected as an individual. Nothing more, nothing less. Let us leave it if you are still not clear and proceed further with the discussion.
    'He who does not understand your silence will probably not understand your words.'- Elbert Hubbard.

  • #650718
    I think rather than a good healthy discussion this thread has become a battlefield, with men on one side and Juana on the other.

    I am just putting my views here without taking any sides. This movement has nothing to do with 'Goras' as exploitation has no color, caste or country. Although the movement started in foreign country but that doesn't mean that they are the only one suffering. It takes time for people to accept and adjust when a change comes, and there is a lot of resistance.
    It is a welcome step that womens are using this movement for putting forward their pain and sufferings. Even on this site we are using the language which is not our own, but we are using it to the best use possible, then why not the movement. It does not matter if the incident happened 10 years ago or 15 years, as at that time even people were not as aware as they are now.

    Also to add, this movement wouldn't have been possible if there was no social media platform. Social media once a mean of informal communication and entertainment has become so powerful that it has begun to bring about changes and laws. It has brought about information to masses which had no means no know. It has its own merits and demerits, so does each and every invention or technology or even our own simple decisions have. It is our duty to make informed use of technological inventions.

    This movement is for time being, confined to media and journalism industry only and it may sooner or later move to other industries also.
    It will make workplaces safer for women if, the movement does not lose its steam and is supported by all.
    Although at workplace women may hesitate joining this movement as they may fear losing their job as most of the companies are not as sensitive as they should be.
    Although big companies have policies and law in place for women safety but still many cases happen and are not reported.

    To make a movement weak and ineffective is by maligning it by saying that it is used for personal gains or to settle grudges by women against their employers or bosses and so on. Already statements have started to come from many who are now trying to crush this movement. Take my words many men will believe it too, here on this website also, but think logically, how can a women say such a thing about herself because she will be questioned by all quarters of society, family, friends and even colleagues where she works. How would she be able to face them if, she would be lying, its out of question to stake your own modesty for sake of settling grudges or for defaming someone. Atleast an educated and women of values will never do so.

    Few exceptions are always there but that does not make this movement an ineffective one, as this will definitely bring about change. But the first change that is definitely needed is the mindset of men who consider women as their property. Changes take time and good steps like these needs to be supported and taken forward and also to accept the fact that change is inevitable.

    I think that more and more women need to come up and share their ordeal and let know the whole world that change is needed and this is the first step towards it.

    Change is even possible if more and more women are educated and they join the workforce and contribute to economic growth. Men are living in illusion that they are running the World, on the contrary they are here only because of a women.

    There are still flip side to it as harrassment at small factories and uneducated class also happens but they all remain unreported. Even incidents in smaller cities and towns are also not reported as the women their are more afraid to speakup for themselves.

    Change is inevitable and this is one good cause which we need to support open heartedly for making workplace safer for our future generations.

  • #650922
    I have been responding in the other thread related to this movement and will come back to this thread as well.
    When people come at you with their worst, you should come at them with your best (advice given to Selena Gomez by her mother, quoted in Time magazine.)


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