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  • Category: Miscellaneous
    Points:5

    Another significant aspect of #MeToo movement

    All of us know that #MeToo movement has brought forward the sexual exploitation of women in working places, especially in certain professions like entertainment industry and journalism (both print and tv). In ISC, we are discussing the impact and effect of this #MeToo movement in India in another thread.

    However, if we delve deeper, we will find that the #MeToo movement has brought forward a significant shift of mindset. I feel that the movement has thrown light to the fact that some educated and career-minded Indian ladies can go to any extent to further their career progress. They have no qualms to indulge in unethical practices to move forward in their career. Not only that, if the practices adopted by them fail to give results, they also report these on a public platform, even after a considerable period.

    Is this trend good? Members, please comment on this aspect as a response to this thread.
  • #650637

    Points:5
    You have cast aspersions on the character of intelligent, educated and successful women. This means that all those women with successful careers have resorted to unethical practices, to get where they are, and those who failed in their ploys, cry foul.

    You have made grave charges here. You have maligned the name of women. Can you provide evidence for what you mention? It can be anyone - it need not be a stranger, whom you have never met. Look around you, among family and friends and tell us how many educated, career-minded women, among your close contacts have indulged in this behaviour.

    Before, you bring in the point that I have brought in your family and friends into this. Let me tell you that you started it. Your allegations point a finger at every educated, career-minded woman out there. I included, and my daughter and many others.

  • #650638

    Points:4
    No its not good. Unethical means to enhance your carreer is not good. I have a feeling in my mind that most of the cases which are opening are of those who were strugglers and now they are complaining as now they don't have fear of anything to lose.

    Its very strange why they didn't complain when they were harassed what's the use of complaining now.

    But still #Metoo movement is helpful as they will bring out the culprits who have put the mask of innocence but are actually not in reality. Alok Nath who appears to be very decent how someone can believe can be held responsible for someone's sexual harassment.
    Sanjeev

    " The two most important days in your life are the day when you are born and the day you find out why? "
    – Mark Twain

  • #650654

    Points:1
    " I feel that the movement has thrown light to the fact that some educated and career-minded Indian ladies can go to any extent to further their career progress."--------------Why are some people missing the word ''some''? I have not edited/deleted my thread.

    We should not name any person in this thread. This is a general discussion.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650655

    Points:1
    Mr Partha,
    Why you specify Indian ladies? It will be better if you change the "Indian ladies "to people.

  • #650656

    Points:1
    As far as I know, the #MeToo movement has gained momentum in the USA, France and India. As I don't have exact knowledge about the evolving society in the USA and France, I have mentioned India only.

    I also want to discuss the trend noticed among SOME Indian ladies who give extreme importance on career growth, in this thread. They want to move forward in their career by any means. So, I have mentioned Indian ladies.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650657

    Points:4
    I fully agree with Partha. So far, only the entertainment and publicity society have come up supporting the #MeToo campaign. Educated and career minded ladies can go to any extend to play their dirty game against the men, if they fail to achieve their goal or reach their target.

    In the past too, the law was same, and anyone could lodge a complaint if they were harassed in their work places. But none dared to complaint but adjusted to bear the harassment as a pleasure. Now what made them to change them from adjustment to harassment. A disgruntled woman who cannot satisfy herself can take advantage of the #MeToo movement and play a blame game against the men they love, but could not get the love.

    No one will harass a woman for sexual pleasure in the public. There will be no evidence to such harassment. Hence a lady might say anything against a man for which no witness or evidence to support the lady or the gentleman to find who is guilty or innocent.
    No life without Sun

  • #650743

    Points:3
    Either it is a male or a female going in an unethical way for their success is never advisable. If somebody is trying to do that, they should not be encouraged. If the boss is harassing his assistant for his self-benefits, the subordinate should make a complaint to his next boos. But many persons prefer keeping silent. If we are not complaining against him he will feel that he is getting encouraged. So we should complain.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #650751

    Points:5
    For me this #MeToo movement is above any gender. But somehow, the trend has been like this, whenever a woman accuses male, for molesting or sexual harassment, the very first reaction from Male counterpart (in maximum cases), has been to believe that she is faking it, she did it for money and now blames, she is characterless and so on.
    Being a strong female, educated and bold, even I have to admit, I am not celebrity, but I do have such cases in school and college. But that time, the trend had been that girls were considered weak, and we reacted and dint make a fuss about it. We reacted and moved on (at least in my case, so I have no regrets). But now some of the women are coming forward, only be abashed by males and society for being fake. No one belives there story. Just because one or two females are poor in their opinions, or are greedy for money and fame, doesn't mean every second lady is.
    Being a female is a challenge in India, and no one likes to malign their image deliberately.
    Try imagining yourself, travelling in Buses, in Trains, living in constant fear of getting raped, touched, oogled even when you sleep in hotel, fear of camera in changing room, pinching while buying stuff at supermarket, unsafe in Ola, Uber, you will understand. Please be different and focus on woman who need your help and change in mindset.
    Its your choice, where and on whom you want to focus.
    Regards
    Iti Tyagi
    "Soar to Success"

  • #650759

    Points:5
    I too concur with Partha. Since the starting of the #MeToo , I have been wondering why the lady, who accused Harvey Weinstein of sexual misconduct, or all those who joined the movement, kept quiet all those years. Some of them kept on working with their alleged tormentors even after the alleged first sexual misconduct. Why did they go to their alleged tormentors' rooms after the alleged first sexual misconduct? Some of them kept quiet even after second and third alleged assault. Why? Why did they not file a police complaint the very first time they were assaulted? Were they kids? Did they not understand what was happening at the age of 21 or more?

    They did understand what was happening but wanted to work with the Movie Mogul, to boost their careers, isn't it?

    By saying all this, I am not endorsing anybody's sexual misconduct.

    And for me too, there is a difference between 'some women' and 'all women'.
    When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new!

  • #650760

    Points:1
    If we chose to ignore/twist the truth because it is inconvenient to us, then the problem will remain. Some ladies did not behave honorably when those shameful incidents happened with them. This fact can't be put under the carpet now. As they did not report the matter immediately or failed to press the charge, it has now become very difficult to punish the culprits.

    After all, all of us want that the culprits be punished and such incidents don't recur in the future.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650764

    Points:4
    Always, a complainant has an advantage over the accused. In general, the law enforcing authorities, the police, will prejudge and favour the ladies who lodge a complaint and will look at the accused as a guilty. The authorities try to harass and torture, and insist the accused to accept the complaint by using third-degree treatment. This is what we had been experiencing in our life so far. I am sure, the #MeToo movement also will be misused to tarnish the image of a person by any female who doesn't get well.

    How to ensure that the complaint lodged against a person is genuine or false? How the case will be dealt with? I am sure, many innocents will be trapped into the #MeToo net.

    I recall a case wherein an infamous lady singer used the #MeToo campaign to malign an aged and famous lyric writer blaming him that he asked through a third person to 'Cooperate'. The third person has denied the charge. Now the damage has been done to the writer. This is what would happen to most celebrities if someone wants to defame them.
    No life without Sun

  • #650781

    Points:5
    Many of the members raised the point that why these women did not complain immediately after the incident and why they are complaining only now? There will always be certain incidents which the women cannot make public immediately. They have to think of the consequences and also have to build up the courage. Now the time has come for them because of this movement and the women are braving to complain. Remember they are risking their career and reputation to get even.
    There may be cases where some women, whose numbers will be so negligible as to consider at all, who might have indulged in unfair practices to further their career. Is the number of such women so significant to be compared with those of the men who try to exploit the women at the workplace? Leave alone workplaces, even at home, the women are exploited by men. The transition is taking place and the women will succeed in putting an end to this exploitation.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650787

    Points:2
    Life imprisonment in India is minimum 14 years. I think, this minimum 14 years fixed based on the theory that in every 14 years a person's behavior is changing completely? Is that true?
    If that is the case, a complaint after 14 years can't be accepted?
    I am just thinking about the technicalities.
    Can anybody say on this aspect?

  • #650790

    Points:2
    Neeraj,
    It will be a funny case to hear a lady complaining against a person who expired before 14 years. This will be surely a case to tarnish the persons image when he is no more on this earth. Celebrities won't mind to engage them in such a case, to have their name shamed on record.
    No life without Sun

  • #650791

    Points:1
    "There may be cases where some women, whose numbers will be so negligible as to consider at all, who might have indulged in unfair practices to further their career."-------------Are empirical data available to conclude that the number of such women is negligible? How does one say this without the number supporting his hypothesis?
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650793

    Points:5
    Can the author give any empirical data and examples on incidents of "some educated and career-minded Indian ladies" who have used unethical practices to further their career progress? Based on which data the author has come to the above mentioned obnoxious opinion?
    Life imprisonment means imprisonment until death. There is no rule that life imprisonment means a minimum 14 years only. It is a misconception. After 14 years of imprisonment, the prisoner can apply for remission which may or may not be granted.
    In our country, many cases take more than 14 years to get the judgment. Does that mean, the cases may be dropped after 14 years? We, the Hindus, believe in punishment by God in the next birth for all the acts of omission and commission we committed in the present lifetime. This may also need to be revisited.
    The women who made the allegations did not go to the court. They voiced their exploitations by some gentlemen in the society. Now that few of the alleged persons went to a court of law, they will be legally dealt with.

    I want all the members to go through the case of Ms. Rupan Deol Bajaj, a retired IAS officer against Mr. K.P.S. Gill, former Director General of Police, Punjab, in a case of intended molestation of a woman. In that case, Mr. Gill was convicted by the Supreme Court. This case and the judgment will certainly strengthen the case of the women who are voicing their concerns.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650794

    Points:1
    Unlike the present activists, Ms. Bajaj didn't wait for more than ten years to complain. She immediately raised a hue and cry and initiated a proper legal process. And so she has been successful in her fight.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650795

    Points:5
    The author has conveniently avoided giving the data and examples of "some educated and career-minded Indian ladies" who have used unethical practices to further their career progress.

    The husband of Mrs. Rupan Deol Bajaj was also a senior IAS officer like herself. They had the power and courage to raise the issue immediately and go to the court of law. Even then, they had to move earth and heaven to get Mr.Gill convicted. The misbehavior of Mr. Gill happened in an official party at the house of the then Home Secretary of Punjab in full view of the other guests. None of the higher officials including the Chief Secretary were able to help her because of the clout of Mr.Gill at that time. Imagine what will be the plight of the women now coming to the social media when a senior IAS officer herself had to struggle so hard to get justice done to her. The time has now come for them and they will succeed in their efforts to shame the so-called gentlemen. It is never too late to bring the misdeeds of the powerful and mighty people into the public focus. Remember, it is not one woman but a number of women that are coming forward to voice their grievances of exploitation by men. One cannot ignore the voice of all these women. There must be truth in what they are saying. This cannot be suppressed and they will get the justice.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650802

    Points:5
    Everything in this world has two sides. One is the intended one while the other is which people adopt it for exploiting the others. Black sheep will always be there whether it is males or females.

    #MeToo is a platform to bring the dark side of the world to public notice. Now if someone, male or female is misusing it for mean purposes we can not differentiate until unless sufficient prove of discarding is created by the involved parties. So we should take these reporting with a pinch of salt but at the same time should not doubt the genuinely simply on gender basis.

    Frankly speaking, without any prejudice in my mind, if we start differentiating on gender basis the males will be losers as their degree of inherent lust and physical attraction towards opposite sex is far far greater than the females. They are prone to err much more than their counterparts. If you believe the Psychoanalysts, females do not have such devilish attitudes towards the opposite sex and they look up for only affection, love and caring traits in males.

    So while assessing the complaint of a women we must keep these underlying considerations in mind otherwise we will assume every women a liar and conclude our observations wrongly.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #650834

    Points:5
    KVRR
    Delay in lodging a police complaint should be reasonable and properly justified. It is very difficult to prove such cases in a court of law.
    These Metoo cases are coming from Film and entertainment related industries, they are mostly controlled by mafia and underworld. Funds from illegal sources/ gangsters and politicians are flowing there. People like Karim Morani and gangs are ruling the industry. We cannot expect everything good there. There are no regulations by the Govt in this industry. It is natural to think the sexual exploitation widely exist in this field.

    There are exploitation s in every field/industry. We cannot ignore their voices. I agree that their grievances are genuine. But, this type of uncivilized approach of fixing the perverts is really shameful, not fitting to our culture. How they are getting justice by revealing certain names, by shaming others?

    There should be a strong 'sexual exploitation grievances redressal mechanism' in every field like many corporate companies having. Government should initiate a separate ministry to handle all these issues. I am wondering what National Women's Commission is doing there.

  • #650838

    Points:3
    Mr. Neeraj, none of the women who alleged exploitation went to the police or the courts of law. Now that the "Me Too" movement gathered momentum, the women gathered courage and are coming out in social media and other platforms to expose the men involved in harassing them at workplaces. Even if they go to the police or the courts after a long gap, it is their right. They are risking their career and reputation in doing so. Their aim is to stop any future exploitations.

    The Government should have taken proper steps to free the film industry from the clutches of the mafia. The industry cannot do anything about it. The Government alone has the machinery to do it.

    The "Me Too" movement is not an uncivilized approach to end exploitation. What is our culture? Is it befitting to our culture for the men to take advantage of and exploit women? Is it proper culture for the women to bear the exploitation in silence? If that is culture, such a culture is not needed. The women in question may or may not get justice. They have come out boldly and exposed the men who are habituated to exploit them.

    Now that Mr. M.J. Akbar went to a court of law and filed a defamation case against Mrs. Priya Ramani this will end in a logical manner. Support from many women is pouring in for Mrs. Priya Ramani. Many women journalists are recounting their experiences. It is not a single voice but a number of voices that are loud and clear. Let us wait and see what happens.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650841

    Points:2
    Ms. Tanushree Dutta, an actress, filed a complaint with the police and the Women's Commission about actor Nana Patekar, whom she alleged to have harassed her 10 years back on a film set. I stand corrected for my statement that none of the women in "Me Too" movement went to court in my previous response.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650845

      

    Points:5
    In our society, there is a stigma attached to the cases of sexual harassment and that is one of the main reasons why women fear to lodge complaints. While going through the different news of sexual harassment in details, it can be easily found that in many cases police refuse to register the complaints on different pretexts. It needs a lot of courage for women to lodge a complaint in India and there are cases of police harassment too if the accused is influential.

    Though in the #MeToo movement most of the cases are from the film industry, but the fact is women are harassed in workplaces irrespective of the domain. The significant aspect that the author tried to convey in this thread is not related to the movement and it is absolutely a personal choice. If somebody wants to stoop to a certain level to achieve something in life nobody is going to interfere in that choice and I am sure nobody is going to question that person for it.

    Women have lots of patience and when the society is male dominated women had to be silent in certain cases fearing the consequences. Every law or movement can be misused and it is the duty of the law enforcement agencies to look into it but there is no point in saying why they are coming out in public after so many years. Every movement requires a driving force and in India it is Ms. Tanushree Dutta who took the lead. Many things are coming out of closet and I am hopeful that law will take its own course after all the widespread allegations.
    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #650846

    Points:3
    #MeToo movement in India is a fresh one imported from the west. Decade-old issues should not be brought in to deal with and to wash their dirty linen in an open space. It is to be presumed that all the decade-old cases were not harassment but adjustment and cooperation. The rules and regulations to deal with#MeToo cases should be framed with a time frame to lodge complaints and justice should not be delayed. There should be special courts to deal with harassment in workplaces, and the judgment should be pronounced without any delay.
    No life without Sun

  • #650848

    Points:5
    Are we not diverting from the point of discussion? The basic question was is it a healthy trend. For that, we should discuss whether it is a trend or not. Then we should discuss whether it is healthy or not. That's it.

    KVRR, one former employee of Harvey Weinstein accused him of sexually assaulting her in 1970s. Now, after 48 years, the lady has spoken up. Could she not muster enough courage to speak up in those last 48 years? Another actress accused Harvey Weinstein of sexually assaulting her in 1980, then another in 1997 and so on. Could they not muster enough courage in the last 38 years and 21 years respectively? 48 years, 38 years and 21 years are a very-very long time periods.

    Remember, most of the survivors have been actresses, so they kept quiet as speaking up at those times would have ruined their respective carriers, like it happened to Tanushree Dutta. So, they played along or cooperated for furthering their carriers. Their respective carriers were more important to them than anything else at that time.
    When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new!

  • #650850

    Points:1
    Yes, the topic which I wanted to discuss is not being discussed. It is being done intentionally. The trend of career progress by hook or by crook is very unhealthy. This creates a lot of problem in society and also in personal life.

    As far as I understand, almost all allegations of old harassment cases being reported now are time-barred and the Court won't be able to punish anyone for want of evidence. But the bad blood would remain and create problems in personal life and in the entertainment industry and in the media world.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650852

    Points:2
    Again another thread where the men dominate the discussion. Two women spoke, and that's it. Is this still worth discussing here, when even the minimal participation from women has stopped?

    Is this another sign of male-intimidation so the women 'adjust' and 'cooperate' in silence, while some menfolk keep adding points to further their (career) score in ISC?

  • #650853

    Points:2
    Is there a trend? If so, is it limited to women only? There may be stray cases but not as a trend specific to women only. The author has mentioned it as a gender-specific to women only as they now started "#Me Too" movement to expose the exploitation they faced in the workplaces. The author is of the opinion that these women tolerated the exploitation all these years to further their career. The author further alleges that these women do not have any hesitation to report even after a long time if their devious methods fail to yield results. What a respectable opinion the author has about some of the educated and career-oriented Indian women? The author has no concern for the helpless condition in which these women kept quiet all these years in male-dominated society. I have cited the case of an IAS Woman Officer versus a male IPS Officer. None of the Senior Officers came to her rescue in view of the clout the male IPS officer had. In such of these conditions, can anyone expect the ordinary women to have the courage to stand up against the powerful men who are exploiting them?

    As rightly pointed out by Mr. Bhattacharya, every movement requires a driving force and that driving force for these women is the "#Me Too" movement. It is not a lone voice to doubt their intentions. How these women can raise their voice against the powerful men who are capable of doing anything? Now the time has come for the women to boldly express their sufferings because of this movement.

    There may be a long gap after which these women found the courage to stand up and expose the people who exploited them. It is not their fault. They found the right moment now. They are risking their career and reputation to make their point. The women may get justice or not due to technicalities but they have made their point and men will think twice before making any advances to women at workplaces.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650854

    Points:3
    Indulging in unethical practices to advance the career is not a healthy practice.
    I read in Times Of India that a complaint was registered in Court on May 2016 for a rape case happened in June 2010 was dismissed by the court saying that there was no valid justification for filing a FIR for a delay of more than 6 years.
    Now we are hearing more than 10,15 and 20…etc years old cases.
    All the cases are to be reported immediately.

  • #650855

    Points:5
    Bala,
    I am neither intimidated nor do I feel dominated or threatened by men, such as seen in this thread. The posts in this thread speak volumes and strips naked the mentality and the thought process of these men, for everyone to see. I do not want to engage myself in futile discussions, where minds have been made up and the victims already judged and found guilty, without as much as a trial.

    This thread indicates the pleasures people achieve out of judging and maligning victims, without knowing the truth, without having walked in their shoes. We see an ugly side of society; very few, have the courage to walk on the side of the truth. The irony is that these men question the timing, bring in culture, feel offended that men are being named and shamed, but have no qualms about slut-shaming the victims. They are insinuating the worst possible accusations, calling them whores, without saying the word. No woman deserves this. They do not admit that wrong(s) have been done but find ways to condone and overlook those wrongs. This is the face of the society that questions why all these women did not speak up earlier. This is the same society that blames women when they are raped - why was she out late, why was she dressed in a certain way!

    I have better things to focus my energies on. This discussion is not worth my while. Let these men feel a sense of achievement. Their opinions will not change a thing. Though, I do wonder what their reactions would have been if the stories were of one of their own.

    I won't respond to this thread, no more. It is based on vile imagination and is derogatory.

  • #650856

    Points:2
    We ISCian (males) don't support rape and the rapists at all, as it is a serious crime. The concerned should be sentenced to death or life imprisonment. But MeToo case is entirely different. We too support the MeToo movement. No women should be subjected to harassment in workplaces. But we want to ensure that the innocent menfolks are not blamed and harassed if the educated and career oriented/worried women make a false complaint to malign men who don't help them to develop their career.

    Indeed, it is the right time and right platform to discuss the issue. Women members should boldly put up their views in this thread than shying away from discussion.

    As I mentioned in a previous thread, law is same then and now. What made the women to keep silent for many years? All the film actresses and media ladies could have agitated and lodged complaints against the men who harassed them then. What stopped them then? Any answer from the lady members?
    No life without Sun

  • #650859

    Points:1
    We have to blindly support the so-called 'progressive' view without any individual thought or without applying logic, only then we would be part of this 'progressive' gang. Many people (including many ladies) may not be ready to be part of this gang.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650868

    Points:1
    The people with regressive views show their narrow-mindedness in their expressions and actions. They cannot tolerate persons with liberal thinking. They apply their logic for negative thinking only. Any right thinking person responds to others problems like the ones which the women are raising now in a positive manner. They do not go outright to the other angle and cast doubts about their intentions.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #650871

    Points:-1
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650897

    Points:1
    The lady has shown the correct way to deal with the male predators of the society. A lady from Davanagere in Karnataka has provided a perfect example of a progressive woman. She is definitely a progressive woman in the real sense of the term. When the lady went to the bank to seek a loan, the bank manager sought sexual favours in return of sanctioning the loan. The lady did not take the social media route to complain against the bank manager. Instead, in front of many people, she thrashed the relatively powerful bank manager black and blue. The video has become viral all over India.

    I salute this unknown lady for her courage and progressive attitude. The #MeToo campaigners may learn from this lady. And I am very sure that after the bold and courageous action of the lady, the requisite loan will also be sanctioned to her.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650900

      

    Points:5
    I have been following this thread and would now like to speak out against the typical mindset of most people, both here and on social media. Concurring with some of the responses here - why are people trying to find fault with the victims for not speaking out earlier? Are you aware of the cases of the "educated and career-minded Indian ladies " who did speak out? The complaints were summarily dismissed because of the repercussions feared by those to whom it was reported. They are speaking out now because, as one gutsy lady who did speak up many years ago said, "I owe it to all those young women who need this issue to be spoken about, so they will not have to fight the battles we older ones fought."
    [Read this: https://theprint.in/opinion/metoo-movement-should-not-spare-indian-ngo-heroes-and-i-am-speaking-out/133169/] .

    Yes, you do need the courage to speak up. At that time perhaps they lacked it due to lack of support, fear, shame, whatever. Does it really matter now? Now they are being very brave - imagine having to relive that disgusting experience all over again. The very fact that every little detail of the incident is brought out despite it happening many years earlier is proof enough that these are genuine experiences, not fake ones.

    The author of this thread and other respondents are implying that it is a "trend". No, it is not a fashion style which was or is in vogue. Shameful to say so. Shameful to say, too, that they have no qualms. Don't you think the perps were taking advantage and using their vulnerability to exploit the women, pompously knowing they would not speak up? Maybe they could not fight their battles and when they did people turned a deaf ear to their cries. Now they are doing so, fighting their battles. Support them for what they are doing now, not ridicule and shame them for what they did not do then.
    When you make a commitment, you create hope. When you keep a commitment you create trust! ~ John C. Maxwell

  • #650904

    Points:2
    Vandana,
    You said - At that time perhaps they lacked it due to lack of support, fear, shame, whatever. Does it really matter now? Now they are being very brave.

    Can you tell us what support they lacked then? Was there no police or court to deal with such issues? What made them to fear when women have equal rights? What was the shame then and now not? What made the women be brave now? Where they coward then?

    I feel #MeToo campaign is like a film being made for some women to play a brave role by taking advantage of the weakness in the men of the past.
    No life without Sun

  • #650907

    Points:1
    I feel that they remained silent because they thought that silence would help their career. When (now) they are feeling that silence didn't help, so they are complaining.

    I indicate 'some' by the word 'they'.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650908

    Points:5
    Well Sun, 10 years back, 30 years back there was no social media, and common people, never came to know about such incidents, because voices were raised, but those voices were suppressed by family, by relatives over the fear of bad name, suppressed by policeman, who were corrupted, or who thought its better for the lady to be quiet, as she will suffer more otherwise.
    My junior told me molestation incident, recently by our Professor, before this #MeToo movement. I asked her why you were silent? She said, "mam, no one in my batch beleived, you were gone from college, and that male teacher, was very famous, if I would have said anything, people would have judged me only".
    So there are so many factors here, being a female, I know, and please do not take it negative sense, but you will not understand. It's not your fault, you just have not felt, how it feels like to be a woman in India.
    If so many females complain, there must be a reason Sir. There is a reason. This is coming out from a bold female like me, who knows what it feels like to be oogled, stared, touched by relatives for the sake of uncle's love, what it feels like to be stared while serving food to so called cheap relatives, cousins who were so bad for young teenage girls. Now I understood, and its never too late.
    Focus on the one who are genuine, do not question their courage now. Its never too late.
    Regards
    Iti Tyagi
    "Soar to Success"

  • #650911

    Points:1
    Iti Tyagi,
    If I were a woman and employed then, I would have acted differently then and there against the man who harassed me. I would have acted bravely and taught them a lesson with least worried about my future or career. I always advise my family members to show their chappel (Footwear)to warn them if they are sexually harassed.

    I would still say that the women remained silent for many years, as they adjusted and cooperated to care their career in their life, especially the womenfolks from the entertainment and information world.

    In our normal life, at home, if anyone is sexually harassed, they will be dealt with by the family members. But in workplaces, adjustment, cooperation, and silence works for a better career.
    No life without Sun

  • #650912

    Points:2
    It is true that in previous decades people were unwilling to give credibility to the rape victims, men or women. At the same time in the modern era false allegations are also a threat to the society by men or women.
    Why the women didn't spoke earlier? We can't conclude anything about it because the cases are from unregulated Film industry controlled by thugs.
    There should be penalties and punishments for those who make false claims. They should pay a heavy price for ruining innocent people's lives. A detailed processing is to be done for everyone on every side of every accusation. A redressal mechanism is to be arranged and all these cases are to be resolved within this mechanism and not on the road.

  • #650919

    Points:3
    #650911
    Thank you, I understand your point now, and this is very much true. My college director used to say the same. He was like be bold, do not withstand this behaviour, but fact is how many times you are going to say this. These things are so common in day to day life, we are targeted as someone who is always having issue. This in turn leads to an issue of taking casually, complaining too much and later on as fake.
    Regards
    Iti Tyagi
    "Soar to Success"

  • #650921

      

    Points:5
    It is really easy to say "I would have acted bravely". It is tough to follow through when suddenly, out of the blue, something like that happens. Initially, there is shock and the fear of shame follows, not to mention the disbelief from even the closest of friends, family even, that it happened. It is often dismissed with "Such things happen." It is also easy to say "Be bold". All individuals are not the same. There are some women who have some kind of fear or timidness, maybe reluctant or afraid to even ask for help when in distress. Not everyone is feisty. Take a very simple scenario: A woman sits in a bus beside an old man. After a while, he puts his hand between his leg and her leg and starts running his finger up and down the side of her thigh. She turns, sees that it is an elderly person. She is outraged, at the same time, she has this ingrained lesson about showing respect for elders. She hesitates. She does not slap the man, nor even shout at him. She looks around her timidly and wonders whether anyone will even believe her or do something, like telling him to get off the bus. Would the conductor help her? Eventually, she simply gets up and moves to another seat. Would you say she was a coward? Not speaking up does not indicate cowardice.
    When you make a commitment, you create hope. When you keep a commitment you create trust! ~ John C. Maxwell

  • #650927

    Points:1
    Let us take another example. A person (maybe an Editor of a newspaper or a Producer of a film or a Managing Director of a company) calls a young lady for an interview. If the interview is scheduled in the conference room of a hotel, the lady should attend the interview. If the interview is scheduled to be held in the bedroom of the powerful person, the lady, however young and inexperienced and naive, must refuse to attend it. If she attends the interview in the bedroom and accepts the offer of a drink by the all-powerful man, she is inviting the risk herself.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650936

    Points:1
    Vandana,
    Why should the lady on the bus tolerate and bear the fingering of the elderly person who thinks of sex in public places? It is her mistake. She should have thrashed the bad guy irrespective of age. I am sure, the co-passengers would have joined her to beat up the old guy. The lady proved herself a weaker sex.

    Once I was traveling on a bus from Tirunelveli to Tuticorin, It was about 2200 hrs. A husband and wife were in the front seat. and I was sitting behind them. In a sleeping mood, I folded my hands and rested it on the rest bar of the seat leaned forward and kept my head on my hands. When the lady leaned backward, her head touched my hands. What she said to her husband was not known, but her husband shouted at me saying 'Rascal'. I understood that the guy has misunderstood me, and I said,"Sorry man. I am not what you think." Listening to my English words, he remained silent. The scenery could have changed.
    No life without Sun

  • #650938

    Points:2
    Mr Partha
    There is a point in your example. Everybody will not be able to identify the risks involved. They will be trapped. Later, metoo cases are cropping up.This is the order of the day.

  • #650946

    Points:2
    The way couple of guys going about condemning the women victims willfully and repeatedly, makes me wonder. Is it because their conscience is pricking them that they try to justify their past guilty actions and prevent exposure?

  • #650948

    Points:1
    Bala,
    Sorry. You are mistaken. We are not condemning the women victims wilfully, but supporting them and discussing this by looking at it from different angles. All women are not perfect and all the men are not predators. Justice should prevail, and innocent should not be shamed or punished.
    No life without Sun

  • #650956

    Points:1
    As pronounced by the SC, If Adultery is not a crime and a person cannot be booked for sharing other's bed with their consent for pleasure and joy, men or women will have a tendency to find a suitable partner, taking advantage of any situation. especially in workplaces. For this, one has to advance to lure the other sex and get their consent. Such a move becomes sexual harassment to the other sex.

    Firstly, before accepting the MeToo campaign, the law should be changed. If adultery is considered as a serious crime, then MeToo will have its importance and effect

    You may agree or disagree, but I agree fully.
    No life without Sun

  • #650968

    Points:1
    Some sane people are condemning the tendency of complaining, naming and shaming a person after 10-15 years of alleged incidents. This will complicate everything. These ladies are also putting themselves in all sorts of trouble, which they can't even imagine.
    Tumi asbe bolei akash meghla, Brishti ekhono hoyni;
    Tumi asbe bolei Krishnachurar fulgulo jhore jayni--Nachiketa
    Sky is cloudy but the rain hasn't started, only because you will come;
    Krishnachura flowers haven't fallen, only because you will come.

  • #650969

    Points:1
    One sane person resigned from the Central Cabinet over the # Me Too allegations. The sane persons are thinking ahead leaving the real problem behind. They are not concerned about what these women had to go through. They are more concerned about what troubles these victims may pose to the past and prospective exploiters of women.
    " Be Good and Do Good "


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