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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Silence on good news

    The petrol and diesel price has been coming down slowly but steadily for the last eight days. When the price of petroleum products goes up, there is so much hullabaloo everywhere. It is quite natural and it must be so. At the same time, when the price comes down, at least a very small news item or a small mention in the television news is expected. But I don't see such news in any media. Why?

    Only five days before, there was a raging debate on the cost of the Patel statue everywhere. Even, on this platform of ISC, there was strong criticism on the justification of the statue and also about the cost of the statue. It was stated that almost Rs. 3000 crores were spent on this Statue of Unity. Now, I have come to know that during the first ten days, there has been an earning of Rs. 2.1 crores from the visitors. At this rate, the cost of the statue will be returned in 1500 days, i.e., in little more than 4 years. Although this statue has not been built to earn revenue, those, who were making a cost-benefit analysis, have been silent now.

    Why so much silence on these good news?
  • #652739
    I am reading daily news about price reduction of Petrol and Diesel so probably you are purposefully missing the particular news section? Try picking up the newspaper again, the news is easy to find.

    First-day visitors to a new place are usually one of the highest the place is going to receive. Calculating average from that is being purposefully ignorant. The money spent on the statue, if spent in the education and in fighting malnutrition of children would have earned Indian economy much greater cost-benefits over a much longer term.

  • #652741
    That is the way how politics will go. A person who is with government will highlight the good news and a person who opposes the government will give importance to negative news. When the governments change the roles will get exchanged. There is no wonder in this. Diesel and petrol prices were reduced. Now the diesel rate is about Rs.80/- per litre. Hope further it may come down. We don't know.
    Coming to the revenue for the Statue of Unity, initially many people will have the attraction towards the same as it is a new attraction. Naturally, the revenue will be high. But we can't take the same revenue continuously for 4 years. But one thing is sure that the governemnt will get back amount spend on the statue if not in 4 years, maybe in 6 years.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #652742
    It is really good that some Members of ISC noticed that petroleum price has been coming down everyday. But has there been any discussion on this issue during the last eight days? Has any Member raised any thread before me? Why such apathy on good news?

    Further, how can we assume that the ticket price for the statue would remain the same for the next 4-5 years? And as I have already said, the statue is not only for revenue earning. This is a symbol of the integration of India.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652744
    Yesterday the auto wallah took 50% more than the authorised amount on a minimum distance. He curtly told me "you people are not bothered when you pay rising price everyday for every item in the mall. Just like that you pay auto charges also'. Fearing a fight and bad tongue, I kept silent and paid whatever he asked for.

    Yesterday we paid Rs 932/- for the cooking gas cylinder.

    The effects of fuel price rise is not just restricted to the buyer, it has wider ramifications with cascading effect.
    We need a dynamic pattern of charges for auto,taxi, bus etc depending on rise or fall of the fuel price.
    Now the situation is there will be noise and panic on price rise. Users or buyers are overcharged on that basis. The effect is cascading. The reverse never happens. When the price falls,the benefit is not passed down to percolate.

    That was why it was essential for the government to monitor and control the oil fuel prices in early days. It served as a check on cascading effect.

    Why we are silent on good news(if at all it is there) is that the benefit is not passed on to all. There was a heavy reduction in international crude price. The govt or oil companies did not reduce the fuel price proportionately. The taxi, auto, or train fare or cooking gas price did not come down in that proportion. But for any and every reason, the price is increased.
    Then where is the good news?

  • #652749
    It was clearly stated in that thread itself that the cost of erecting the statue will be recovered in a few years through the revenues generated from the visitors and its happening. It happens the ratio with which the rate of petrol and diesel increase is higher when they decrease.

    People know there is no use even if they protest against the increase in rate that's why they keep quiet.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652750
    When the minds are biased there is no categorisation of good news or bad news. Some people are with the present Govt, they are only seeing the positive points. Those who have affiliation with opposition are searching and pinpointing only negative aspects. This is happening in all the areas whether it is fuel price, cleanliness, repair of potholes, governance, black money, demonetisation etc.

    We must consider overall growth of economy, ease of doing business, abolishment of black money, containing price rise, providing employment, global recognition and other such factors when we want to asses a particular regime.

    If the overall growth considering the above factors is more in the present regime then only any news is a good news.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #652761
    After the steep rise in fuel prices, the transport fares have been increased. But when the prices fell the fares are not decreased. The LPG price has been hiked 2 times within 2 weeks, so where is the good news?

    The changes in fuel prices are notified through different media and the reduction is not steep enough to stir the people in the country. The rising cost of fuel has cascading effects and felt by everybody, so it is clearly understood that when people are already finding it hard to manage the hikes there is hardly any cheer visible on their faces for this little reduction.

    By the way, deviating from this thread, I am giving another good news. The new blockbuster 'Thugs of Hindostan' crossed 50 crore on day 1. On day 2, it crossed around 30 crore and on day 3 it was around 25 crore. Let's wait for some more days and see the result when the craze dies down.

    Actually, the media dishes out the news and make the stories as breaking or insignificant. In many cases we are guided by them only. The good and bad are always relative and it's for the individual to decide which news is bringing cheers.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #652772
    People who wanted silence to be maintained when the prices were skyrocketing wants the silence to be broken when the prices have indicated a marginal decrease. Funny. Rather funnier because the people, in general, know the actual reason behind the beginning of such benevolent acts now.
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #652775
    #652739 / Ankit, I respect your emotions in context to the sections of society which are uneducated & also if the funds were being utilized in fighting malnutrition of children. I also would like the members to go through the below link raised earlier on the statue of Sardar Patel,

    Rs 3000 Cr. Tribute To Sardar Patel : Why to politicize the matter?

    In addition, are we selective in our approaches?

  • #652778
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652784
    There was no news that the Government reduced the excise duty on petrol and diesel. The Oil Companies reduced the rates as the crude prices came down globally. If they go up, the prices will go up.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #652786
    But isn't the price going down for last ten days? Is it necessary to analyze which body is cutting the price? At the time of increase, do we analyze which body is responsible for the increase in price?
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652788
    When the prices of petrol and diesel were going up, the State and Central Governments were criticised for not reducing the VAT and excise duty respectively. The Oil Companies were criticised when the prices of petrol and diesel were reduced at the time of Karnataka elections.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #652793
    #652784 / KVRR, could you pl. list the challenges or the areas for the present government that needs to be tackled on priority basis or if we want then we also can contribute with the below thread which is not closed yet,

    #652795
    The tenure of this Government ends in less than five months. Let us discuss when the new government is formed next year. It is too late now.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #652798
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]

  • #652799
    Mr. Anand, you know better than me. Think for yourself about the issues and solutions for them.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #652802
    @ Mr. Anand, there is a complete deviation from the original thread in the replies # 652793 and #652798. There should not be deviation of this kind and from the screen grab of one of the replies, it is understood that the reply is either deleted or from another thread.

    A separate thread concerning that topic may be posted to discuss about those issues.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #652803
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]

  • #652805
    Criticising government for the increase in rate of petrol and diesel is of no use as this is not under their control. Also I would ask the members here, was the rates not increased in previous government tenure. It's a issue which every opposition party escalate and forgets what happened in their government.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652808
    #652805
    "Criticising government for the increase in rate of petrol and diesel is of no use as this is not under their control."

    Then who controlled it during Karnataka elections?
    Who gave promise of reducing fuel prices in 2014?

    Thanks,
    Suresh.

  • #652809
    Personally, I don't have any problems with rising petrol and diesel prices for private vehicles. I don't criticise any Government for this because this helps in pushing people towards public transport. Public transport should be subsidised by the same money that is collected as tax from fuel. Similarly, commercial vehicles like trucks and other public transports like taxis and autos should get subsidized fuel.

    However, saying that fuel prices are not under control of the Government or that the current ruling party is not responsible for it, I believe is incorrect. When the current Central Government came to power, the prices of fuel were low and to take advantage of that situation the taxes were increased. This resulted in huge profits to the Government kitty while the prices of fuel didn't go down as they should have. However, when the price of crude oil began to rise, the taxes were not lowered and that is how the current Government is more to be blamed that the previous ones.

    #65277512, in response to your "In addition, are we selective in our approaches?" -
    Money spent on statues is always a waste, be it done by any political party, BSP or BJP. I find it strange how people tend to justify one wrong by the wrong of others. Just because someone has done a wrong before, does it give you a license to do it yourself too? I critised when it happened then, I do so now. Couldn't that money have been spent for a useful purpose like a school or college and named something SVP Unity hospital/school?

    Members here are simplifying the cost calculations to say that the statue will recover the money spent on it within years. Even Partha, who knows how money increases it value when invested properly, is doing calculations based on a fixed value without taking any inflation adjustments in count.

    Anyhow, my point is that even if the statue recovers the cost expenditure done on it, there are better ways to spend money and solve the problems plaguing our country. I have huge respect for how the Delhi Government utilises the funds at its disposal. If I am not mistaken, it is the only Government with more than 20% of its budget allocation towards education.

  • #652812
    The prices of petrol and diesel likely to go up as Saudi Arabia announced that it is going to cut the production of crude oil. If the other OPEC nations follow the suit, there will be an upward trend in petrol and diesel prices in our country. If such a thing happens, hope the Government will come to the rescue of the people by cutting excise duty.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #652855
    @652808 Suresh, No one controls the rate of diesel and petrol its the demand and the supply of the same which determines it. Though taxes make an impact that's marginal. Politicians who say that they will reduce the rate are making our fool and trying to get the votes, they will surely deny such comments once win the elections.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652857
    I wonder how a tax rate of 25-35% is marginal.

  • #652858
    Ankit, And what about the demand?

    Today, when we talk about the rate of petrol and diesel why, do we forget that we are equally responsible for it. Why can't we reduce the usage of the same? Why can't we reduce using a vehicle? Today for even a small distance we prefer going by a vehicle, use of bicycles have stopped and people don't prefer to commute by public transport nowadays. We will have to change our lifestyles so that demand for petroleum can go down and ultimately the rates also.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652875
    Sanjeev,
    You are taking the discussion on a different track. If you see my previous response, you will see that I think on the same lines that use of private vehicles should be reduced. Efforts should be made to use public transport and bicycles for small distances.

    The discussion that we are doing here is whether the present Government is more responsible for the current fuel prices or not compared to previous central Governments. The simple answer is a big YES. When people blindly loyal to the currently ruling Government try to show a little reduction in prices as a "good news", they need to be shown facts and figures. Actual inflation has not reduced and we are spending much more due to price rise than is good for a growing economy.

  • #652877
    Ankit, I agree that the government should take steps to control the price but what can be done. But how can it be we also don't know? Being a common man I also wish it happens. Every government says the same but no one does it but to criticise the government for it only is wrong as there are many other good things which the government is doing.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652881
    I think we can agree that there is no Government that does no work for the public. The cleanliness drive, introduction of UPI and other digital initiatives (excluding demonetization) are praiseworthy.

    However, this particular Government is responsible for price rise because they have increased the share of taxes to much higher levels since coming to power. This was fine when fuel prices were down to improve Government finances, but when the prices have gone up again, there should be a corresponding reduction of taxes to cushion the common man.

  • #652887
    1. "I think we can agree that there is no Government that does no work for the public. The cleanliness drive, introduction of UPI and other digital initiatives (excluding demonetization) are praiseworthy."-----------I am unable to co-relate the first sentence with the second one.

    2. " However, this particular Government is responsible for price rise"--------------The impartial observers won't agree that the present Central Government is responsible for price rise. On the contrary, the inflation has been kept in a tight leash.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652894
    Discussions are well in progress. Petrol and diesel prices are 'slowly' coming down. Well and good. However, no participants in the above discussions noticed another price fluctuation.
    Price of cooking gas: May : Rs. 639.50, June: Rs. 688.50, July: Rs. 746.00, August: Rs. 782.00, September: Rs. 812.50, October: 869.50, November: 930.50.
    Today's News paper reports that by the end of this month the price reach a four figure number. These prices are based on Kochi market. 14.2 kg cylinder. Of course, subsidies are available for eligible families.

    tmsankaran

  • #652895
    @652881 Ankit, Are taxes bad for the growth of the economy? 35% of taxes on petrol and diesel is high but that's how the revenue is generated and the government also don't have a substitute to compensate it if they reduce the taxes. As India is one of the largest consumer of petrol and diesel so India has to get it imported to meet the demand. Every year the number of the vehicle is increasing making demand high and making the environment more polluted. In my opinion, the government should reduce the number of the release of vehicles so that both pollution, as well as the rates, can be controlled.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652915
    #652809: "Even Partha, who knows how money increases it value when invested properly, is doing calculations based on a fixed value without taking any inflation adjustments in count."------------Yes, Partha did not take into account the time-value of money while writing this post. But, at the same time, Partha also did not take into account the employment opportunities created by the Statue of Unity, while he knows very well from his experience that such popular and publicized tourist spot would definitely provide very good business opportunities for at least 150 people.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652916
    Can the silence or the breaking of it be restricted to petrol prices, please?
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.

  • #652927
    Let me go in reverse order
    #65291614 - Please see the OP's thread description. There are two topics simultaneously in discussion - Fuel prices and the Statue of Unity. I don't think we are side tracking.

    #65291514 - I would really like to hear the OP say that the money spent on statue, if spent on education or on a hospital is going to give better returns, more employment and is more beneficial to the Indian economy. If so, I will understand that I am banging my head on a wall and there is point to continue arguing.

    #652895 - That is not what I am implying. Taxes are neither good not bad but rather a necessary evil. Again you are diverting the discussion. The only point I want to make is that the country was running before too with a lower percentage of taxes. Development of Metro, many Government schools and colleges, loan waivers, National Rural Employment Guarantee Act, etc. happened with lower taxation rates.

    If the Government is raising the tax rates to discourage private vehicle use then come out and say it. Such a policy would have my wholehearted support. When the same people were crying about petrol price rise and LPG prices when it was in 300-400 range but they were in opposition and now don't care about the same touching 4 digit figure, I just want to call out their hypocrisy.

    #652887 - 1. What I wanted to convey is that any Government in power will do some or the other work for people. No democratic Government can survive with complete apathy to its people. The second sentence explains how the current Government has similarly done *some* good work.

    2. #652894 is one part of the answer. Any parent whose child has just started school knows the rate of kindergarten admissions and what they were just a few years back. Delhi is an exception. Compare the tuition fees of IITs just a few years back and now. I can give many examples but I don't want to waste my efforts since I know you are just going to ignore it. The rise of prices for these essential services and commodities does not match with what it should have been if they had followed a healthy trend of inflation.

  • #652937
    Ankit I am not diverting the discussion it is well aligned with the subject.

    Don't you think all tge development which takes place in the country is by the money that the government gets from the taxes and that's the reason we see more developments these days as compared to the past when there were low taxes on the things?

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652938
    So you mean any amount of taxation is fine as long as the Government spends it wisely?

  • #652940
    Ankit, no I didn't say that. Government thinks wisely when they keep taxes on the things.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #652961
    The government must seriously think the ill effects of hike of LPG cylinders within a short time frame and though they offer some concession to the weaker sections but such concession are not being covered to all the retired people. At least, some agency from the Government must be there to watch the irrational hike of fares by the Auto and Car drivers and for any small hike in Diesel and Petrol they ask the fares being too irrational. There are some peace loving people not inviting any rifts with the drivers for fear of heated discussion which may hurt them mentally.
    A suitable mechanism must be there to ensure that commuters are not being charged erratic fares on the plea that the prices of the fuels have been hiked and they carry out periodic revision on their fares.

  • #652963
    The thread has gone to a totally different direction. I simply started this thread wondering why good news is not given due publicity. I gave two examples of the continuous decrease of petroleum products and the earnings from the Statue of Unity (although the purpose behind the statue is different).

    The thread has been hijacked. Taxation is being discussed and I am afraid, very few have understood the underlying thoughts of the original thread.

    And, astonishingly this thread is not being locked!

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #652967
    Partha, why underlying? I think it is because you are not straight. Are you as the author of the thread responsible; I think so. What desists you from coming up with real facts?
    'It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it'. - Aristotle.


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