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  • Category: India

    The same dangerous old tradition continues

    Immediately after the independence of India, Mohandas Gandhi and the then Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru propounded a theory. They stated that in a peace-loving country like India, the role of the Army is the barest minimum. They started systematic downgrading of the Armed Forces. India had to pay the price. 1/3rd of Kashmir is still under the illegal occupation of Pakistan. Even then, Nehru continued this policy. He systematically curtailed the budget of the military and sidelined the competent Generals and promoted less competent people (Some examples: rapid promotion of BM Kaul, resignation controversy of General Thimayya, posting of General JN Chaudhuri as Southern Army Commander and proceedings against General Maneckshaw). India again paid a very heavy price in the form of 1962 debacle against China.

    During the early nineties, the same thing happened. The defence budget was again curtailed year after year when Dr. MM Singh was the Finance Minister. Again India had to suffer during 1999. Although many soldiers were killed, the country somehow managed to kick out the Pakistani intruders of Northern Light Infantry of Pakistani Army.

    During the UPA-I and UPA-II regimes, the procurement was almost stopped. As a result, Army, Air Force and Navy have had to suffer a lot. If we take the Air Force as an example, the fighting squadrons of the country have been severely depleted.

    Under these circumstances, the present Government has been trying to procure Rafale aircraft very quickly to give the Air Force a cutting edge. The last two Air Chief and the present ACM BS Dhanoa have been strongly advocating speedy procurement of Rafale.

    But some opposition leaders including Congressmen are trying their best to stall the procurement of Rafale. The Supreme Court has declined to look into the procurement. Now a senior leader of Congress has accused that "ACM BS Dhanoa is telling lies" regarding the need of Rafale Aircraft.

    I note that the same dangerous old tradition of Congress still continues. Are we, the Indians, going to suffer again?

    Let's discuss.
  • #655261
    The Country's policy is to go for peace. But we can't afford to lose our independence and we can't surrender ourselves to other countries. We should be always prepared to reply to any country if they try to rule us. Gone are the days. We can't follow the same policy. So it is true that we should equip ourselves with all required infrastructure and equipment so that nobody will attack us. If attacked also we can reply to them effectively. The Supreme court verdict has also come in a similar fashion. The opposition parties should note this point and they should not further make an issue in this matter unnecessarily.
    always confident

  • #655293
    Defence preparations are lagging, that is an absolute reality. But in the shroud of that urgency corruption cannot be allowed to happen.

    A simple decision of having HAL as partner could have avoided such a scenario but since the Government is hell bent on favoring it's biggest donors illegally, this sad situation had arised. Any blame of delay this time is responsiblility of the current Government.

    Congress has eaten it's pie of corruption earlier and now BJP wants to eat it too.

  • #655295
    Peace loving is one thing but when it comes to our own survival then everyone goes for best of the defence systems in place.

    It will be a blunder if we reduce our expenditure in defence related matters. In fact to create jobs and opportunities we should manufacturer all types of modern weapons and sell them in the international market creating competition for even the developed countries who are having a monotony in this sector.

    When our people can excel in IT, textiles and other fields why not in the arms and amnuition. We have the manpower and we have the talent. We should focus and give importance to this area rather then decreasing the defence expenditure.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #655296
    In this small post, I wanted to raise three issues. The first one is systematic neglect of Indan Armed Forces by some political leaders of the country since independence and the danger to this country due to this attitude. The second one is delaying tactics adopted by the opposition parties to ensure cancellation of the deal. And the third one is the audacity of a political leader to call the Air Chief 'a liar'. Let us stick to these three points in this thread.

    The issue relating to HAL, whether HAL is/was ready to become a partner in this project and other related aspects regarding the purchase may kindly be discussed in a separate thread.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #655303
    I think every country loves peace. But defense is essential to avert any eventualities and therefore modernizing the types of equipment is essential. India has a border dispute with Pakistan and China and China is the main threat to our security considering China's nuclear capabilities and modern weaponry. India is among the biggest importers of weapons and considering its threats from the neighbours, it is essential to develop indigenous military hardware to develop arms based on the specific requirements.

    To give a boost to indigenously built weaponry, the Make in India initiative was taken and undoubtedly urgency should be there to purchase new equipment. All the three forces are managing the show with equipment much below the required numbers and the only way to upgrade the system is to increase the defense budget. There is an insurgency in a few parts of the country, there are threats from the neighbours. Pakistan and China are getting closer and we do not know what is going to happen in the near future. India is a peace loving country, but from the activities of our neighbours it's really hard to give them the tag of peace lovers. With the modernization of technology, the defense equipment also needs upgradation and for that defense budget has to be increased on a regular basis keeping in mind the border situation.


    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #655313
    No doubt we are a peaceful country but that doesn't mean that we should minimum money on our defence when we are surrounded by countries like China and Pakistan.

    It's very sad that less competent people are promoted whereas the good people are not.

    The government should analyse the situation and should not compromise with the defence expenditures as its necessary like any other department. They should think about the soldiers who work hard on the borders for our and nation safety.


    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #655318
    The typical propaganda to defame Gandhiji and Nehru family which is also the agenda of a political party. I want the author to clarify one point. When the occupation of Kashmir took place? Was it before or after the accession of Kashmir into India?

    Gandhiji lived for less than six months after India became independent. In this short period how Gandhiji planned and started the alleged down gradation of the Indian Army? On what occasion Gandhiji and Nehru stated that the role of Army is the barest?

    Coming to the Rafael deal, did anyone ask the Government to shelve the Rafael deal? What all that is being discussed is about the alleged corruption in the Rafael deal. When there is nothing to hide and there is no corruption, why the Government is not ready for an investigation through Joint Parliament Committee?

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #655324
    1. If anyone doesn't know the history of the Indian Army and also doesn't want to know the truth, I don't want to waste his valuable time arguing the same. If necessary, he may read some relevant books and available materials on the internet.

    2. Since when the JPC members became experts in defense equipment when the Supreme Court itself doesn't want to go into that aspect?

    3. What about the insult to the Air Chief by a political leader?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #655339
    The author has not answered my question. These days self styled experts in history and defense are giving their unqualified opinions.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #655345
    Why would the author answer the irrelevant question (what is the question is also required to be understood)? Nowadays, if a person with a minimum level of curiosity/inquisitiveness studies a subject utilizing the available literature and books, can have adequate knowledge on the subject, if not transforming into an expert. And, are the JPC members experts on defense-related matters?

    I request all Members to stick to the issues raised in the thread. What is their opinion about the political leader addressing the Air chief as 'liar'? If the aircraft purchase is canceled or delayed, won't the country face danger due to fast depleting fighter squadrons? Didn't the previous Governments of the oldest party hand over part of Kashmir and Aksai Chin to Pakistan and China, respectively?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #655366
    When there are no answers, the best way is to bluff out. I will get back with how relevant are my questions once I am free.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #655380
    I request the Member to go through the following links to understand Mohandas Gandhi's view on Army:-

    2. (Page-1: "In Gandhi's idealized state, there would be no representative government, no constitution, no army or police force;")

    Jawaharlal Nehru, although discarded all the economic and social theories of Gandhi, followed Gandhi's view on Army in toto.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #655397
    From the content of the thread, it is obvious that an attempt has been made to link the Occupation of part of Kashmir was due to the alleged downgrading of the army by Gandhiji and Nehruji. The occupation of part of Kashmir happened before Kashmir became a part of India.

    In a short span of five and a half months, how Gandhiji managed the alleged downgrading of the army is anybody's guess.

    "They stated that in a peace-loving country like India, the role of the Army is the barest minimum." This naturally brings out questions as to when, where and what occasion it was stated by Gandhiji and Nehruji.

    1. This pertains to a written brief given by Gandhiji in 1931 about "The India of my dreams". This is conveniently taken to show that Gandhiji downgraded the army. Dreams and reality differ a lot.
    2. This pertains to Gandhiji's view of an "idealized State". The same thing as above.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #655601
    I am really sorry that I missed the previous comment. Pakistan attacked J&K when Maharaja Hari Singh in power, but when the Maharaja signed the Treaty of Accession in favour of India, it becomes India's duty to re-capture each and every inch of the occupied land. Nehru did a crime when he took the matter to UN when the Indian soldiers were on a winning spree and after lots of sacrifices, were re-capturing one after another town of the Kashmir valley. Due to the terrible failure of Nehru which was the result of the influence of Gandhi, still 1/3rd of Kashmir is under the occupation of Pakistan. Not only that, Pakistan is now leasing out part of this land to China and China is constructing highway causing more danger to India's security.

    No amount of excuse will hide the fact that Gandhi and Nehru neglected India's armed forces.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

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