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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Is it a valid and effective one in this present world?

    During my long absence from ISC for 55 days (I was not under any punishment as assumed by certain fellow ISCian), I was watching Mahabharatham with great interest. I missed watching those Mahabharatham episodes in the years 2014/15/16 owing to my extra busy activities in ISC. On 1st Nov 2018, instead of logging into ISC, I preferred to watch Mahabharatham. I discarded ISC and continued with MB. My last 55 days brought a good change in me. I learned a lot from the epic MB. Let it be. After watching the Final episode of MB, this question is raised in my mind.

    When Pandavas came to know that Karna was their elder brother, born to Kunti and the Sun God, while she was a virgin girl, and she had hidden and did not share the fact till the death of Karna in the battle-field, Dharma(Yuthistra) got annoyed and cursed the world in the following manner:

    "With immediate effect, no woman in the world will be able to keep up any secret with them". It means - Secrets are not to be shared with ladies.

    Is it not quite interesting? Is his curse to the women folks valid and effective? Are our ladies capable of safeguarding the secrets shared with them? What's your experience on this subject?
  • #655555
    You asked, "Is it not quite interesting?" Well, what is interesting is that you picked on (learned ?) only this one thing from your long study of an epic for the duration of 55 days? Is this part of the 'good change'? I do not see the change. Just yet another usual thread targetting women.
    When you make a commitment, you create hope. When you keep a commitment you create trust! ~ John C. Maxwell

  • #655557
    Sorry Vandana,
    This is a fact-finding thread. It is to know whether it is an effective curse or a useless curse. Truly, it is very interesting. Because it is said by a great man who is famous for Dharma. Dharma never lied in his life. Should Dharma curse the ladies in this manner while we praise the women of this present world? Is it true and valid? The discussion is - Should we share secrets with women or not?

    It is not only about women. I will come up with many such queries (learned)from Mahabharatham in future.

    Even my thread 'Death is a punishment or Gift" is also from my learning through MB only.

    Instead of targetting me, you may post your views on the subject posted.

    No life without Sun

  • #655559
    This is important to note that the any of the ancient epics including that of Mahabharata had been written on the poetic forms & therefore the actual derived meanings could be different for the different individuals because the hidden meaning beneath the poetry lines are sometimes not understandable in real terms to the layman but instead the expert interference is required in order to understand this in clear terms. In addition, this doesn't seem logical that any of the warriors had been kept with the writers along with them to quote with their dialogues which are never possible. So basically this is a matter of understanding with the communications of the writers who wrote on those stories & in what context that those were written which could differ in various ways.

    Like in the present context & as has been quoted by the author,

    "With immediate effect, no woman in the world will be able to keep up any secret with them". It means - Secrets are not to be shared with ladies."

    The same depends on our perceptions & intelligence because even before thousands of years of these episodes we got thousands of civilizations in throughout world & believing that this never got the attention of the wisdom of the then era is surprising as well as unbelievable.

  • #655562
    Vandana,
    During my entire study of Mahabharatham, I never came across any curse from any character to the people on this universe except this curse from Dharma to the entire female gender, and another from Kaanthari to Krishna for His entire Yadava community. Hence the curse is attractive and interesting to discuss and understand the fact.

    No life without Sun

  • #655564
    Welcome back Sun after a long gap. Our ISC Sunny is always funny because he spent 55 days to read Mahabharat and finally got enriched after learning interestingly to know a out two curses!

    This episode makes me to recall about a research scholar who submitted his thesis on a frog. First he cut one leg of the frog and asked it to jump. The poor frog jumped wisely and it couldn't exhibit its pain. He cut another leg and asked again to jump and it jumped a little, yet hiding its pain. Again cut the third leg, asked to jump and tried to jump and made some rounds. He smiled and told that he was going to prove one more 'big bang theory' to the world. Finally, he cut its fourth leg and shouted to jump. Poor frog couldn't jump and lied there. He concluded his finding - "If four legs of the frog are cut, it can't find any thing and can't hear too." Also proclaimed that he is going to win the 'Doctorate'.

    Regards,
    Jagdish

  • #655567
    I don't think so. I have seen a few of the men too who can't hide the secret even though men were not cursed.

    In my opinion, the story of Mahabharata and Ramayana are just imaginary stories. Few of the things in the stories may be the truth. I don't believe just by the will of Yudhishthira all women of the world were cursed.

    I had watched all the episodes of the epic in the childhood and what I like about it was a friendship of Karn who even after knowing that Kauravas will lose the battle still he did not leave them and sacrificed his life. He was a great character.

    Even I liked the character of Bhishm who did not accept to be the king because his father promised to Bhishma's stepmother and that's the reason he did not marry in his life.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #655568
    Women and men are of the same species, they only have biological differences. Because of this biological difference, women and men have certain distinguishable characteristics. The issue of keeping secrets or telling lies is absolutely an individual characteristic and this has nothing to do with gender.

    In the epics or in ancient literature there are instances of different kind of curses given by different characters. The curse is an expression of extreme anger in which it is believed that the curse is going to invoke certain punishment magically on the other person or a community. I have noticed a tendency among people to attribute certain human characteristics as a curse or blessing of God. The logic of attributing something to curse or blessing is best known to them who are concerned about it.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #655569
    Hiding secret is a personal quality irrespective of gender. There are many males who can't keep secrets with them,
    I am an example of that. I never keep secrets for long with me. At the same time, there are many females who will never open up their secrets. I know many such ladies.
    Coming to the curse of Yudhistara to ladies, I don't think that this is there in the original Vyasa Bharatham. Later on, it was added by other writers. These days many such additions are seen in almost all the epics.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #655572
    Every curse has a solution to overcome and return to normal. That is the practice. Munis, sadhus and sanyasis first curse (Saabam)and then give a solution to overcome the curses(Saaba Vimoshanam). Whereas, in this case of Kunti, she never asked for any Saaba Vimoshanam to Yuthistra on behalf of the ladies. Kunti kept mum. So the curse remains as a curse forever without any solution to the curse to the ladies of this world.

    Jagdish Patro: An irrelevant response with an unconvincing frog's leg cutting story. I need not post Mahabharatha at ISC for members to read. I wish to clear only important issues and doubts that I have after watching MB.

    No life without Sun

  • #655573
    I don't know about the curse of Dharmaraja. But I feel that most of the women could not keep secret with themselves. This is only my observation. Although the Almighty has kindly given many qualities to women which are less seen among men, so far as keeping secrets are concerned, men are more reliable.
    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #655581
    A very interesting and intriguing observation made by the author. Our scriptures are full of such material and are based on the study of social and anthropological aspects pertaining to that time. The writers of these scriptures were ordinary mortals like us only. The only difference is that these scriptures became the historical epics in our country and treated by us as being more of religious nature.

    In history, many writers have depicted the male and female nature and their psychologies in different ways and there are different theories propagated in this regard.

    In western world also there were many philosophers who have brought these elements of description of the inherent nature of male and female.

    These sayings or quotes are still not firmed up as ample scope for discussions exist. Due to the historical inequality of sexes, the males always had advantage to propagate theories as per their wishes. So it is up to the individual to believe in such sayings. They can not be accepted as universal truth.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #655610
    Interestingly, no lady member responded to this thread except the Managing Editor with an irrelevant sarcastic response. Since there is no response from the lady members, should we presume that the curse is valid and effective?

    @Partha: I like your straightforward response.

    No life without Sun

  • #655694
    "With immediate effect, no woman in the world will be able to keep up any secret with them". It means - Secrets are not to be shared with ladies.
    Who said this?

    Security and intelligence services all over the world, women recruits are increasing not because of their fairness but because of their talent. Miss Gina Haspel is the director of CIA since May 2018. British Intelligence services,48% applicants are women. I understand, many female agents are there in R&AW. The recruitment processes are generally not known, not in public domain.

    Sun, your view about women is totally wrong!
    You have to come out of Epic era! We are welcoming 2019 now!

  • #655697
    Neeraj,
    Sorry, my view is not wrong. It is as per Dharma. You are talking about women in security and intelligence posts which is for earning their livelihood. I agree with you fully. Women are competent enough and capable of working in security and intelligence services, to gain information. In that field, women are very effective and are far better than men.

    Here, my question is whether women will be able to retain or keep up any secret with them. It is to discuss the status of the mind of our intelligent women folks. You can give a second thought to this.

    No life without Sun

  • #655701
    Sun,
    Again you are wrong!

    Intelligent officers duty is not the gathering of information only.
    Without retaining the information and keeping secrecy how they work as intelligent officers?

    I have a woman friend working in intelligence services since many years. I know that she is travelling Bhutan frequently. She never tells about her job and job related matters.

    Sun, you can change your views about women.

  • #655708
    Neeraj,
    You are once again wrong with your perception. The women in security and intelligence organisations/agencies work under a boss. They are to gather intelligence and convey it to their boss or immediate superior for suitable action. They cannot retain the secret intelligence within themselves. Intelligence gathering is a duty to perform. It doesn't end with the women.

    Again my question remains the same - It could be the family secret. What Kunti retained was a family secret, a birth secret that caused the women to get the curse from Dharma.

    No life without Sun

  • #655735
    "Here, my question is whether women will be able to retain or keep up any secret with them. It is to discuss the status of the mind of our intelligent women folks. You can give a second thought to this."

    You are justifying the notion with what is written in Epics/myths. I can agree with you provided you justify with scientific reasons/evidences. Epics and myths are interpreted by ignorant people as some sort of protection against what was not understood. It is still a means of controlling people. The value of a person increases if he understands the difference between mystic and the rigors of science. After all, who is having the knowledge to interpret the Epic stories correctly?

  • #655740
    Neeraj,
    It could be a fact. However, no science can justify this fact. This has to be seen, experienced and understood. Only ladies will know the exact fact of this notion pertaining to women. Since there is no response from the women members of ISC, the notion stands valid and effective, I presume. Let the inner heart of ISC's lady members speak on this subject.

    No life without Sun

  • #655742
    "It could be a fact. However, no science can justify this fact. This has to be seen, experienced and understood."

    Yes. Only facts will be justified by science. I can say that these are only the assumptions not supported by scientific evidence. You want female members of this forum to respond.
    Let them respond.


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