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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Active GD- Patriotic feeling can be instilled by making students say 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat'.

    In schools and colleges, to mark the attendance at the beginning of the class, the teacher calls the names of the students as per the attendance register. The students respond to show their presence by saying ' yes sir' or 'present sir' etc. The Gujarat State government has now decided to change this procedure. Now the students studying in this State should answer their attendance call by responding as 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat". This has been made mandatory from now onwards and a circular has been issued by the government to this effect. And this is a step that is very likely to be followed by most of the other states too.

    The logic that has been put behind the order is that saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat as a morning note will be a good way to enhance the patriotic feelings among the children.

    Do you feel that such a step will really help in building up patriotic feelings among our children of the new age? If so why and if it is not sufficient, why?

    Patriotism is a vast topic but let us restrict to the point in question. Will saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat while answering an attendance call increase our patriotic feelings?

    Let us have a practical, thoughtful and fair discussion with the present situation in mind.

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  • #655943
    Yes, I read the same in the news but I dont think that will be able to generate the feeling of patriotism in the kids. In spite of this, they should focus more on telling stories about the people who fought for our country's freedom, should take them to historic places so that they may know about them, ask them to respect nation and teach them about the different culture about the different regions.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #655948
    This is called forced patriotism and it has exactly the reverse effect. It is a human tendency, if you try to force anything, we will rebel.

    People will automatically love their country when they see and experience peace, prosperity and kindness around them. Building statues and forcing someone to recite or say something is not going to do any good.

  • #656026
    This thread is now converted into an Active GD. Members are requested to please take note of the same.
    'Any fool can know. The point is to understand."- Albert Einstein

  • #656027
    The decision taken by the government seems to be an immature one but still, I would go with it. Somewhere one has to start then what's the harm in trying the proposed method of replying their attendance students should say, Jai Bharat or Jai Hind.

    Children are like clay so whatever they will be taught in their tender age, they will learn it from the heart. Each and every day when a child is supposed to show respect and love for their country, it will gradually become a norm. The particular habit would definitely give them a sense of attachment with India and that is what required to become a patriot.

    Thus, the proposal though sound a little childish, at least it is a step taken for enhancing patriotism. Let's hope it works and that would be wonderful.

    shampasaid

  • #656028
    I came with the thought that I and most of us didn't make response to our attendance by saying Jai Bharat or Jai Hind. So the question arises that aren't we patriotic or less patriotic. This decision will makes confusion among children. My simple request not to play with their minds.
    Prasanna
    Well done is better than well said

  • #656030
    Kids are innocent and should not be forced for being patriotic. I remember in our school we used to say "Bharat Mata kee Jai" three times in our childhood.

    Someone should think of something else to instil the feeling of patriotism in the people.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656033
    I don't think that compulsion to say Jai hind or Jai Bharat in the attendance will anyway bring patriotic feeling in the students.
    Patriotism is a feeling that can't be instilled in anybody by force. It comes with time with the knowledge and it doesn't even have the same definition for every person.
    Every person has his or her own definition and their ways to serve the nation. Some are teachers, clerks, leaders, civil servants and army personnel. We can't say anyone to be more patriotic than anyone else.
    Forcing one to believe the definition of patriotism which one don't even understand is no way going to instil this feeling in them.
    Children learn at their own pace about everything and develop their own point of view about the various issue and we need to let them develop their own point of view regarding such an issue.
    Though we can teach them moralities of patriots through their stories but can't force them to follow the same path similarly we can force them to say those words but can't force them to feel their values in their own life.

    "It is hardest thing in the world to be good thinker without being a good self examiner"

  • #656049
    I am glad that this topic has been converted to an Active GD.

    Let us first think why do the children go to school. Children go to the school for education, there is no doubt about it. But at the same time, they learn some values in schools. They are forced to wear a particular uniform. They are forced to wear neat and clean clothes. They are required to maintain decorum in the class. The students are required to respect the teachers. They have to develop a sense of fellow-feeling and camaraderie with their classmates. They are required to attend schools in a disciplined manner. They can't do whatever they like in school.

    Do we take these as an infringement of our rights? Do we complain against curtailment of personal freedom? I think, no. Because, in school, we also learn certain values which are essential in life. Discipline, hygiene, respect to elders and developing a bond with fellow-students are all values which we learn in schools. Of course, our guardians also teach these values to us, but the schools also teach these values to the students.

    We do not object when these values are taught in our schools because we think these are necessary. Then, why the objection against imbibing the value of patriotism?

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656050
    There is a saying in Telugu which says if we eat continuously neem fruit also will be sweet. In the same way, there is another saying which says that sing, sing and sing you will become a good singer. Like this probably the government might have thought that by telling everyday Jai Hind or Jai Bharat, the children may have some affection and love for the country which will become as patriotism. Maybe true.
    But simply saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharath the children may not know the importance. So they will go on saying the same in routine. But the teachers should take special interest and mentor the students, why they should say Jai Hind or Jai Bharath, what is the importance of these words and why one should be patriotic. Then they will understand the importance of these words and the love for the country will start growing in their minds.
    The role of teachers is very important in this. How they explain the importance there may be some improvement definitely.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #656052
    Patriotism can't be forced. But it can be inculcated by mentoring and explaining them the importance. If the child doesn't understand the importance of the country I don't find t anything wrong in forcing also to the children who are not having any knowledge about these issues. Actually, it is easy to bend a plant but not after it has become a tree. So when the children in their learning mode as a parent or as a teacher one can force them the importance various aspects in the life in which patriotism is one of the important topics.
    There will not be any objection for imbibing patriotism. But the thing is the proposed way is a good way or it is of no use.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #656053
    If these are seen as an obligation then I don't feel that I should even be obligated for saying our regular anthem like the "Good Morning" or "Good Evening", etc. Do the member agree with me because of a simple reason that why I should be then repeating myself with those?

    In addition, I am not against to this but in addition failed to understand about how this will result into increased patriotism among them. I agree with Partha K.#656049 but there are other elements which needs to get considered too. For example, during the tenure of each one of us including the existing system, the students are taught to learn morning prayers including with the pledge but finally what we observe them outside school gate is found to be completely different. My question is, aren't these good enough to inculcate with some good practices among them? I don't know about the opinion of the members but according to me, the positive impacts are not seen in terms to perception or in terms of behavioral aspects.

  • #656070
    Some members have opined that patriotism cannot be forced. They have remarked that by just saying, Jai Hind or Jai Bharat, a child cannot become a patriot. Every Indian family teaches its children to touch the feet of the elders, why? It is a way to teach them to respect elders, and interestingly, when some moody child refuses to do then it gets a scolding. Isn't it forced respect for elders?

    The elders believe that touching feet of the seniors is Indian culture then what's wrong in trying to make the children become patriots. I think that should also be a part of Indian culture that generation after generation must love their own motherland.

    We do not object when a family wants to teach good values to their children, but when the government wants to promote patriotism to the countrymen in a very simple way, we are against of it. It is just because we want to be anti-government in every single decision a government takes up.

    shampasaid

  • #656071
    #Shampa it's not the case that we are against every decision of the government but we are against the insane decision what government has taken to teach patriotism. I am not that patriotic as I mentioned that we compulsorily used to say Bharat Mata kee jai in school but that never instil the feeling of patriotism in me. Moreover at very tender age we can't force kids to understand what is patriotism.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656073
    How can we say lt is an insane decision. Any big walk also will start with one step only. Learning English will start with learning how to write A. In the same way any big moment also will be started with a single person only initially. So saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat is the beginning. This is the starting but not the end. So I think this decision is good to initiate and from there it will progress further.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656074
    # Dr Rao by making this compulsory in tge school we are playing with the mind of kids. It's not essential that everyone has the interest to be patriotic then why such a rule being implemented for all.

    As far as writing A it's a basic step a kid has to learn to be called literate whereas as to speak Jai Hind is not. The government should focus more on the educational system which a school is meant for.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656077
    There may be many methods to inculcate patriotism in the minds of the school going kids. We can do it in various ways. One such thing is saying, Jai Hind. Ok, forget about Jai Hindi. Then why should we ask children to address as Present Sir and Present Madam? This is to show respect to the teachers. If nobody tells this to the kids, how they will get it? So we should teach good points and good habits to Kids. This is an attempt towards creating an awareness among the kids about the importance of the Nation. What is wrong in it?
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656079
    Present Sir means the kid is present and that's the appropriate way to respond to the teacher who asks your name while taking attendance. I use to say Yes sir or madam just to let him or her to know that I am present in the class. Why should we replace it with anything which has some great meaning?
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656083
    It is fine if someone is not against every decision of the government but to consider the proposed idea as insane is debatable. I am an apolitical person so, I am least bothered in party politics, but suppose a compulsory ruling is made to make kids love their own country then it should not be outrightly criticised.
    Nowadays, it is a rule to play our national anthem before the movie starts and to show respect we are supposed to stand. When it became mandatory to play the national anthem then also the citizens objected to it. Now everyone has accepted it, and there is no hue and cry about it.
    The kids who are sports lovers, don't they cheer for their country? The family members and the surrounding teach them to cheer for India so if school takes an initiative to teach patriotism by inculcating respect for their country then it is definitely a good move.
    Well, no one knows that it will be successful or not but trying something good is always commendable.

    shampasaid

  • #656087
    # Shampa The kids who are sports lovers, don't they cheer for their country? ---They cheer for a cause if they do it. Do you seriously think they will learn patriotism through it? In my opinion, they will better learn through the stories and short documentaries of freedom fighters if shown to them.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656095
    The mind of students is like a slate and whatever we write on that it will remain there. There is no harm in teaching them anything which has an element of patriotism.

    In fact if we ask a direct question to a student regarding who is he and where do he belong, he should with proud answer that he is Indian and belongs to India. That should be the basic thing instilled in him. In spite of the cast and creed the student should boldly tell this.

    I welcome this move in our schools in Gujarat and wish that soon it should spread in all over the country.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #656096
    #656079 The point here is one has to inculcate good habits in Kids. Sometimes certain things we should force on the kids for their welfare and betterment. If a kid is not ready to eat, the mother will try all the ways and see that the kid will have food. It is not wrong. So I feel there is no point in criticising the government for no reason. Even though it is not doing good, definitely it will not do any harm. So we should not think that this is an inappropriate move. It is definitely a good habit to say, Jai Hind.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656098
    The kids, in true sense, are very sensetive to the environment and have excellent adaptability with respect to the environment. Once the kids are being taught to touch the feets of seniors, initially there is no reaction and the same instruction is followed instantenously and ultimately this becomes the habit later on. Certainly a good teaching has a positive impact on the mind - frame of the children. To inculcate a blend of right displine apart from showing respect to all should be the part of right education.

  • #656102
    The member said that cheering for the country does not teach patriotism is a questionable argument. So, what does it teach? Every child who cheers for its own country might not understand the relevance of patriotism but definitely, gets a feeling of being connected with the name they are cheering for.
    With age, the bond becomes stronger, and that's how patriotism gets inculcated. The feeling of love for the loved ones is inculcated in through various expressions and gestures and not by narrating a family story.
    Teaching patriotism to the young minds is a good practice because it does not pollute the mind. It rather strengthens a relationship between a child and its motherland. We all have heard so many stories about the great patriots of India, but when needed, hardly a few would follow the footsteps of the great countrymen.
    I believe stories cannot instil patriotism, but it gets inculcated through regular preaching. Telling stories would be an added advantage.

    shampasaid

  • #656108
    Can we discuss whether the children need to be told about the importance of saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' instead of 'Yes sir' or 'Present sir'? Would just changing how you respond make any difference?
    'Any fool can know. The point is to understand."- Albert Einstein

  • #656116
    # 656108, I have already mentioned this point regarding the teaching of the importance of these words and mentoring by the teachers in my post #656050. That is very important. Otherwise, simply by saying those words it will become a routine and they will never know why they have to use these words. There is no debate on this point by anybody and hence that point is not highlighted. Simply replacing the words is of no use. The explanation is more important.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656119
    In schools, we teach many things to students from behavioural to academic ones. We expect that they will learn and adopt them in their personality. Some students take those things seriously but all may not. From this statistics we should not be perturbed and stop teaching them good things.

    There are many attributes which we have to inculcate in the students so that in future they may become a good and law abiding citizens as well as have concern for their motherland. One does not learn patriotism in one day. It requires a cultural background followed by a strict routine in the schools. Responding 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' is a small attempt in that direction. Let us not mock it.

    In fact, we should have a curriculum in schools aligned to our defense needs. I strongly feel that there should be a compulsory military or defense training of at least one year before a young person can join a job whether it is a private job or Govt job. Our students see guns and ammunitions only in computer games and movies. It is time to bring a paradigm shift in the way they care or wish to care for their motherland.

    I welcome the small measure of inculcating patriotism in students by responding 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' in schools.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #656124
    Patriotism need not be taught or forced to learn. It should be within us. My parents, my home, my family, my village, my town, my district, my state and my country should be the feeling that should take birth with us. We are already Indian by birth, and saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat won't make us feel as Indian. Moreover, like in the past, we are not under someone to raise up with some patriotic spirit to fight against them. We are free Indians, not slaves. We all should remember this and act.

    We should use these words Jai Hind and Jai Bharat outside India, not in India. Let the foreigners hear these words. If we use them, it amounts to self-boosting.

    No life without Sun

  • #656127
    In the second part of my response, I would like to state that like all other moral values, patriotism is an abstract notion. So, some symbols and symbolism are required to teach the citizens, especially young children, for the formation of an idea about their own country. National Flag, National Emblem, National Anthem, National Monument, etc. are such symbols with the help of which the children get or develop a idea about his/her own country.

    I know that in the schools of Israel, particular care is taken to teach the children about the concept of Israel. Every child of Israel is fully conscious of their rights and duties to their country. Although Israeli democracy is much more vociferous, the newspapers and opposition parties are always critical about the Government in power, there is no question of a dispute regarding the children learning about the symbols of the country and to pay respect to the country.

    Similar respect is being learnt by the students of the famous public schools in Britain like Harrow or Eton. If we visit the Army, Navy or Air Force run schools or the Sainik schools of India, we will find a similar tradition of the students learning to respect National Symbols in various ways. These develop the sense of patriotism in young minds.

    And the guardians are very much willing to send their wards to these prestigious schools.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656131
    This initiative is the beginning only. Once daily they utter these words and the teachers start telling them why they have to respond their attendance with these words and what is the importance, a majority of the students will start showing interest to know more about the country and its various development phases. They will try to know more about the history of the country where they born and that will give them a special liking towards the country. One should welcome this move as a beginning to develop patriotism among the students.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656133
    Partha,
    Patriotism is a spirit which cannot be seen, whereas all the things you have mentioned viz . National Flag, National Emblem, National Anthem, National Monument, etc. are symbols visible that need to be shown and taught to the young children. Patriotism is like a soul in a body.

    No life without Sun

  • #656140
    Patriotism can't be the soul in the body. It is one of the important things which is to be taken into our soul like love, friendship and ethics. Definitely, there should be a way to get this into our souls, This teaching, mentoring and asking them to chant the words are the ways to see that this patriotism will get into the souls of these children.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656146
    Mr. SuN: In my previous (second) response, I have clearly stated that patriotism is an abstract phenomenon. This means that this can't be seen. However, to teach the people this value, especially children and younger people, we need to develop some symbols. These symbols are National Flag, National Emblem, National Anthem, etc.

    As I have already stated that in the schools of many countries, excessive importance is given to make the students understand the value of the nation-state. They are taught using various ways including paying respect to the symbols to protect the honour of their country. In the armed forces-run schools of India also, we see similar methods of respecting symbols. The guardians of India don't find this objectionable.

    Now, let us talk about the slogan 'Jai Hind'. Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose developed this symbol during his INA days. The people of India has tremendous emotional attachment with the phrase. People of every part of the nation understand this slogan. This slogan is secular in nature. Then why objection to this slogan? Why some people are objecting if students of Gujarat indicate their presence in school by uttering this slogan?

    We will discuss this in the next response.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656147
    Partha, I am against this. We need not drum-beat ourself saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat. I am averse to such self-praising phrases. In Tamilnadu, I find the words on walls "Tamizh Vaazhga" which I do not appreciate. Why should the Tamil praise their own language within Tamilnadu? I would appreciate if the phrase is written anywhere in other states or other countries. It is like saying "My father is great or my mother is great or my family is great".
    No life without Sun

  • #656149
    #656108 has suggested that the students must be explained about the importance of saying, Jai Hind or Jai Bharat. Yes, definitely the teachers should explain the meaning and the importance to the students. The children are by nature very inquisitive so all of a sudden if, present please or yes sir, gets replaced by, Jai Hind or Jai Bharat, then there will arise many questions in their minds.
    The children need to know that the addresses we are discussing are not merely a formality it's a way to express our love and respect for our own country. How Jai Hind and Jai Bharat came into existence and why the Patriots used them during the freedom movement with so much pride. That's how discussions about our motherland will make a special place in the hearts' of the students.
    The proposed salutation is a way to make an inroad of love for the country in the heart and mind of the kids. It's a small attempt which will help to achieve the bigger intention of children wanting to know about India and learn to accept it as it is. Feeling for India will gradually grow.

    shampasaid

  • #656150
    I just saw that this thread has been converted into active GD.
    I do not think that telling Jai Hind or Jai or Jai Bharat will increase any patriotic feeling in the children. The reasons behind my thinking are as follows:
    1. You cannot force any people especially the children to do anything or to show their patriotic feelings.

    2. Do the children below 10 years know the meaning of patriotism? I think most of the children do not know the meaning of patriotism. They go to the school to take education. If we really want to make our students patriotic, we should design our syllabus which increases the patriotic feeling in the students.

    3. Our teacher should set examples before them to make them a good citizen.

    4. The words Jai Hind, Jai Bharat, etc have their own values. If we hear these word we feel somthing patriotic for our nation. Since we generally not hear these words daily. These are not common words. If we make them common these words will lost their values.

    5. The children are innocent and do not experiment with them. They go to school to learn, so try to learn them new things my setting up examples. Try to show your patriotism before them instead of implementing new things in education.
    I will post my further responses in next post.

    Honesty is the best policy.

  • #656151
    I came to know that there is a suggestion that we should explain the importance of Jai Hind or Jai Bharat. Is there a less syllabus for the students to increase the different topics in the classes?
    Why shouldn't you try to increase the patriotic feelings in our political leaders, in our teachers, in the parents, etc? If all the people will show and will be patriotic you do not need to make this type of policy for the students. They will automatically be patriotic.

    Do our children see any patriotic feelings in the people of the country? no, nobody is thinking for the country in the present scenario. Every person is selfish and we want to make the students patriotic.

    First, try to be a good citizen of India and be patriotic. When children will see, they will be patriotic themselves. You will not need to make them patriotic.

    Honesty is the best policy.

  • #656154
    We need not attach so much importance to the words Jai Hind or Jai Bharat while teaching the students to be patriotic. If given a conducive environment they would definitely have a better analytical capability to judge the right steps in a situation. Hence stress should be given on strengthening the basic values such as love, sacrifice, helping others in case of crisis and a vision for overhaul development of human - race. With the proper upbringing of the kids, patriotism will soon be the part of his life life though he may not use these two words to prove his degree of patriotism.

  • #656156
    #656151. I agree that if in society everyone is patriotic, children will become patriotic automatically. But unfortunately, now the society is full of selfish persons we always feel that the nation is not important. So their children will also become like this. You better know that changing a grown-up man is difficult than changing the children. If we start doing al least now the next generation will have all patriotic thoughts. In that process, this is the beginning.
    Coming to the point of the syllabus, it may be already heavy but sparing 5 to 10 minutes in a day in one class may not make much difference. When we were in our high school weekly we have to have one moral class. Like that, at least one extra period can be considered for teaching these issues.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #656157
    I want to add that the freedom fighters like Bhagat Singh, Mahatma Gandhi were never taught patriotism in the school they learned it by themselves and by seeing others. I don't think the feeling of patriotism in them would have increased if they were asked to say, Jai Hind in the school likewise.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #656158
    Members,
    I would like to bring out a little thing that most of us don't follow till date. Are we all perfect in singing our National Anthem "Jana Gana Mana"? I have seen many Indians struggling hard to sing our National Anthem without any mistake. Further, there is no question of knowing the exact meaning of our National Anthem. National Anthem is printed in the textbooks of Primary education (class I to 5). It is not being taught by the teachers. Because the teachers themselves don't know the exact pronunciation and the meaning of the Anthem. While it is so, how come the phrases Jai Hindi or Jai Bharat replacing 'Yes sir' or Present sir' would instill a patriotic feeling in the students' mind?

    No life without Sun

  • #656164
    In one of my posts, I have mentioned that it is a small attempt to make the young minds aware of their country, but there is no guarantee that it would succeed. Such an attempt cannot be the only way to make kids patriot, but one can always try this or that method.

    It is true if the older citizens of the country set good examples as countrymen, then children would automatically learn to be morally good as well as love their own country. We expect so, but it's not always like that. There are families in which parents are too good while children are opposite and vice versa. In such a scenario, those who are sensible and good always try to change the insensible family members for good.

    Thus, I would like to point out that if in our country the seniors are corrupted and irresponsible then should we allow the upcoming generation to follow their path? It won't be sensible. Let the young ones be better than their seniors and make India proud.

    shampasaid

  • #656180
    I agree that many of the citizens now is not having patriotism. They even don't know the meaning of National Anthem. Is it correct to leave things like that? Why can't we try some change? To create awareness among the younger generations is one of such attempts only. To bring that awareness we can adopt many methods. Probably to start the process this may be a small step. To continue further we may have to take many more actions. The next step may be to explain the importance of the patriotism. Instead of criticising the act, let us think on the positive side.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656184
    The real patriots of our country who practice real patriotism are the personnel from the defense services. Every day they hoist our National flag with honour, and lower it at sunset with due respect. We cannot fight our enemy without patriotic feeling. Such feelings are instilled in the minds of our soldiers, sailors and airmen, from day one when they enroll in our defense forces.

    Therefore, to instill a patriotic feeling, a person should join the defense force and serve our country with a patriotic feeling. No school or any institution can help us to bring the real patriotic feeling to any individual.

    No life without Sun

  • #656190
    Why other than defence people should not be patriotic? In fact a politician, a government employee to be specific every citizen of the country should be patriotic. How to inculcate this habit is the point of discussion. It is never possible that everybody can get placement in defence forces. In the hour of need, every citizen of the country should be able to become a soldier. For that patriotism is very important. To inculcate this there are many methods. To initiate that process the present step is a mall one towards that goal.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656191
    Mr. Rao,
    You say, politicians, that too Indian politicians and their patriotism! Sorry to say that we can not expect patriotic feeling from our Indian politicians. Do you know corruption rules India, and the main corrupted are our politicians? They have selfish goals than national goals. It is not the days of old politicians like Mahatma Gandhi, Patil, Nehru, Netaji. These days politicians might question what is patriotism.

    India is of different states speaking different languages. Jai Hind and Jai Bharat are of a particular language not acceptable to other states. The Tamilians might replace it with "Tamizh Vaazhga". Likewise, the other states might give importance to their own state by replacing the phrases' Yes sir' and' Present sir'.

    Patriotism should be inside and should be proved through our activities. It should not be a show-off in our writing and speech.

    I forgot to include the National Cadet Corps who also have the patriotic feeling.

    We try to show off our patriotism on our Independence day or on our Republic day by wearing the tricolour flags and badges. Why can't this be an everyday affair to show our real patriotic feeling?

    No life without Sun

  • #656193
    I stated in my post a politician should be patriotic. But I never said our politicians are patriotic. I think I am clear in my statement. Today's politicians are not patriotic. But at least we should see that tomorrow's politicians will be patriotic. That is the essence of my whole statement
    drrao
    always confident

  • #656197
    Is it not ridiculous to see our politicians who sit on the ruling benches and the opposition benches without any patriotic feeling? Before getting into the schools to instill patriotic feelings in our students, let us find the ways and means to instill a patriotic feeling in our politicians first, and then think about the future politicians. Is there any way to do it? Will our politicians budge?

    If our politicians were really patriotic, we could have solved Kashmir issue long back by any means to safeguard our nation.

    No life without Sun

  • #656198
    Here the discussion is whether making the children chant Jai Hind/Jai Bharat instill them patriotism.

    There is difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.
    Patriotism: I love my country.
    Nationalism: My country is better than all the rest and I refuse to hear anything to the contrary. How dare you not love your country?
    So I think, making the children to chant Jai Hind/Jai Bharat compulsorily, impart them Nationalism not Patriotism.

  • #656202
    We call our native country as our Motherland. How can one forget and disrespect their own mother or their motherland? Hence every citizen of the country is bound to love their country. No one will hate their mother. Same is the case with our motherland and patriotism. No school or teacher is required to educate the students on patriotism.
    No life without Sun

  • #656203
    Just now I am stunned to find a comment of a Member that they (who are they?) oppose the ''insane decision'' of the Government to teach patriotism. To devise a way to teach young students to develop patriotism in their heart and mind is insane! Maybe true. In today's India, "Bharat tere tukde honge" slogan shouting in a fully-funded Central University is quite natural and is supported in the name of freedom of expression, to teach children to mark their presence by saying ''Jai Jind" is insane! But most of us (the citizens of India) would support such insanity. Such insanity must spread in every nook and corner of India.

    Mr. SuN: You have said in one of your responses that the national leaders like Gandhi did not learn patriotism. I have learnt from the freedom-fighters in my family how the teachers in school during the British period useed to motivate students to join freedom movement. But, those teachers were forced to encourage people secretly in the British regime. Now, in independent India, we must motivate our next generation to feel proud of this great country openly and nobody should criticize it.

    Marking presence by uttering 'Jai Hind' is a way to motivate students. I feel that even 10% of these students want to know the history of this slogan and then the real history of this great country, this noble purpose of arousing patriotism in the minds of the students would be successful. This would be a very good first step.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656205
    Partha,
    You misunderstood me. I never said that leaders like Gandhi did not learn patriotism. You misinterpreted my simple language where I said - It is not the days of old politicians like Mahatma Gandhi, Patil, Nehru, Netaji. These days politicians might question what is patriotism. Anyway, the step taken by the government to replace yes sir and present sir is a vague effort that may not yield any fruitful result, in our country divided by language and culture.

    No life without Sun

  • #656207
    Many members have shown their apprehensions about forcing the patriotism on the students in the schools by asking them to use the said responses. I beg to differ here and want to emphasise that students are in their tender age. They will not be doing responsible things voluntarily. Some of them may not be understanding the real meaning of the word patriotism.

    Any small step, whatever insignificant it may look, taken to inculcate feeling of patriotism in the students is a good start and we can improvise and modify it later in a better form. Just discarding it, that it will do no good, is a negative thinking.

    We must include slogans and phrases related to the honour of our country in some way in our social life. I do not see anything wrong even in wishing each other 'Jai Bharat' in place of good morning. I do not consider it as an inferior phrase.

    In China, the students feel proud in calling them selves as Chinese rather than their tribe or caste. Small children do march in the streets for the sovereignty of their country, their motherland. Here we are not able to digest a small response phrase as 'Jai Bharat' or 'Jai Hind' in schools.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #656218
    If at all we wish to instill the patriotism in the minds of young children, this Jai Hind and Jai Bharat should be averted. It is an alternative phrase that will satisfy the students that they have shown their presence in the classroom to their class teacher. It will never imbibe the feeling of patriotism in them.

    Instead, the school can allocate a weekly session "My India" for about an hour, and the students can be taught much about India, and inculcate patriotism in their mind.

    No life without Sun

  • #656225
    A member has mentioned that the Defence Personnel are true patriots as they hoist the national flag and lower it during sunset with respect regularly. Did they do so before they joined the Services? Definitely, no but they were taught to do so and made to follow the norm. Isn't it forced patriotism? The fact is everything must be taught in the beginning and later made to follow it.

    The member has also opined that the men from the Forces are not corrupt like the present politicians of India. I agree with his opinion to an extent but not entirely. There are a number of Defence staffs who have a history of illegal activity, and some have degrading character. So, black spot is prevalent in The Defence too but the ratio is not still alarming.

    Interestingly, the member in one of his posts has pointed out that nobody hates their mother. Everyone loves their mother and naturally, would love their motherland. Thus, chanting Jai Hind or Jai Bharat is unnecessary. In the present world, even mothers are getting murdered, so the argument does not work.

    I would still say that Jai Bharat or Jai Hind as a reply during attendance is meaningful.

    shampasaid

  • #656226
    From the response of many members, it is well understood that the education system in our country is not up to the mark to instil patriotism in the children. Nowadays, patriotism, compassion and helping others are seen as wastage of time among many, so naturally these qualities are hard to find among children. Now coming to the discussion let me mention a few points.

    1. When parents cannot lead life by example, we cannot expect the child to be very patriotic. All of these feelings about one's country and the fellow human beings should be instilled during childhood only and if we think of educating the adults first, then I think we are not moving in the right direction. Saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' is a step to instil the feeling for our country.
    2. When in certain parts of the country separatist movements are on the rise and there are few communities who want to break away from a state and form a separate one, we need to stay united. 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' will at least let the students know they are Indian.
    3. There is apathy among many towards the country and they think nothing is going to happen in India. They think of a doomsday scenario. For their kids saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' will make them curious to know more about the country.
    4. Everywhere I hear a complaint about the young generation. The seniors say the youngsters are 'unruly', 'insensitive', 'casual' and they use lot more demoralising adjectives to describe them. Well, for those seniors let these children be at least little patriotic by uttering 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat'.
    5. Many members have stated the nature of politicians and parents. I fully agree with them. But I would say when the damage has already been done let the new generation flourish in a new way.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #656232
    Jai Hind

    Dear All,
    We are on the last leg of discussion. I conclude saying that patriotism is not a thing to be taught. It has to be within our blood. Saying Jai Hind or Jai Bharat during attendance taking is a wasteful attempt. It would look funny to hear. However, if we all feel that patriotism is a thing to be taught in schools, we should start including a new subject "Patriotism" or "My India" in primary level of education. That would really help us to double up our patriotic feeling. The teachers should tell patriotic stories to the students to instill patriotic feelings. Merely saying Jai Hind and Jai Bharat during attendance taking will become only a duty to perform for a second in school.

    Jai Hind

    No life without Sun

  • #656234
    I have observed that all the experiments are done on children. Are our children made to do experiments? They go to school to learn the things which help them to make a good carrier. But what are we doing? We are not trying to implement the things which are necessary for the qualitative education, we are doing experiments with these innocent children.

    Why do not we try to provide them good ideal teachers? Why not trying to provide them technical knowledge? Today many children in the country need basic infrastructure. In the schools of many villages, children do not get pure water to drink. They go some houses of nearby areas and carry the water canes. Why shouldn't we try to provide them with the pure water to drink?

    Honesty is the best policy.

  • #656235
    A school is a place where a child learns. It is not limited to studies for getting promoted to the next class, it includes a lot of things. While there are things which are forced upon the students and they do it just for the sake of doing it, there are other things which they enjoy very much. Extracurricular activities are those things and students do enjoy those activities.

    Mr Partha in one of his responses mentioned that patriotism is an abstract notion, he rightly said so. We cannot say exactly what is happening inside the mind of others. There are no ways to measure the activities of the mind. There are techniques to influence the mind and those techniques work in a different way in different people. For example, after listening to a motivational speech it is expected that the person will be motivated, but there are a few who are not motivated. Actually, these are all attempts to bring in some changes. There are few changes that can be expected from students by repeating 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' on a regular basis.

    1. They will be curious to know more about the terms and will ask the teachers and parents the significance of those words.
    2. Whenever you are repeating a word on a regular basis, it will be there in your mind always and you can explain to others if somebody tries to misinterpret that word. In the case of 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat', India will be there in the mind of the students and they will be able to protest if somebody denigrates our country.
    3. There is a widespread violation of different rules in our country and a few rules when followed strictly shows our concern for the country. Following environmental norms and anti-corruption laws are one of those and if the country comes first in the mind of an individual then she/he will be more cautious to abide by those rules.

    Therefore, this is a positive attempt to bring in some changes in the minds of the students by saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' which can instil a sense of responsibility towards the country since childhood.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #656236
    In addition to my response #656198 I would like to add,

    Patriotism focusing on the country and nation.
    Nationalism focusing on the Government.
    A person can be a patriot while not being a Nationalist.Also,a nation without nationalism also possible.

  • #656238
    1. Different people expressed different views. But all people agreed that patriotism is important for all. One should love the country and always respect the country.
    2. Unfortunately, in the present days, many of the people who are supposed to be patriotic are not showing that quality. Even many of the government employees and the common public are also not showing much consideration to the country's welfare.
    3. So it is our duty to see that tomorrow's citizen, ie today's children should be taught patriotism and its importance. How to do it is an important issue.
    4. Different people will have different opinions. The government has initiated some action.
    5. It may not be a big attempt. But definitely, it is a small step towards that.
    6. In addition to that teachers can try to explain the children the importance of patriotism and why one should be patriotic, the attempt will be more successful.
    7. I never consider this as an experiment and it is never an additional burden to students or teachers.
    8. If some members have better ways and means they can be suggested to the decision makers and may get the light of the day.
    9. The role of teachers and parents is very important in the success of this kind of attempts.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #656245
    In my previous responses, I have tried to prove that in many countries in the world, there are established ways to teach students in school to respect the national symbols of the country. These are to imbibe a sense of patriotism among the students. In India also, similar practices are observed in armed forces run schools. But guardians don't object such practices-rather many guardians welcome these practices.

    Further, 'Jai Hind' is a secular slogan and people from each and every part of the country understand this slogan originally coined by Netaji's Azad Hind Fauj (INA). So, to use this slogan to mark attendance should not have caused any controversy. In armed forces or .in para-military forces, soldiers salute their bosses uttering 'Jai Hind'.

    So, the next question comes to our mind is who opposes this proposed system. What is the motive behind opposing this? We now need to find answers to these questions.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656247
    Partha,
    No one opposes Jai Hind or Jai Bharat. The question is - Why should we have it in schools to replace the response to attendance calling. Instead, I would recommend using the words Jai Hind or Jai Bharat at the beginning and ending of any speech or writing. Students should be told to write Jai Hind and Jai Bharat in the first page of their notebooks, in the examination papers that remains permanent, and also while meeting their teachers.

    Jai Hind and Jai Bharat should come out from the heart, not from the lips.

    No life without Sun

  • #656256
    What type of argument is this? If the school makes it compulsory for the students to write Jai Hind or Jai Bharat in their notebooks, examination paper, and make them say so while they meet their teachers will remain permanent in their hearts? Addressing attendance by Jai hind is a force, and it is just a lip work. Simply a baseless argument for the sake of countering a point. Writing regularly is not force, but saying it is a force?

    I have mentioned it earlier that uttering Jai Hind or Jai Bharat will make the children curious about their own country. They would ask questions about India and answer to one question will lead to another question, and that's how children will know about their motherland. It will connect them gradually, and the connection will get stronger and stronger.

    A respectable member has opposed to the practice of Jai Hind or Jai Bharat because to him it's an experiment on children. School is for teaching not only from books but good values, courtesy, general knowledge and unlimited aspects of life as well as the world.

    I am really unable to understand why do we teach our children to pray to God? We make them believe that God is Supreme and must have faith in Him, isn't it forced? When in school teachers teach the students to pray to God and sing devotional songs, then it's fine. Saying, Jai Hind or Jai Bharat, is a forced patriotism is a very awkward comment.

    shampasaid

  • #656258
    Shampa Sadhya,
    Why can't you understand this? Patriotism should come from home. I am your father, I am your mother, this is your country. Love your mother, love your father, love your country. The seed of patriotism should be sawn by the parents, and it should be nurtured and grown by self. Maybe, a school can support this, but not simply during attendance call. Effective patriotism should be taught in schools if required, not just a lip movement.

    No life without Sun

  • #656263
    So far, I have tried to prove that the proposal of marking attendance by saying 'Jai Hind' has nothing objectionable. It is expected that this proposal, when implemented, will help students to love their great country, Such symbolic gesture can be seen in top schools all over the world. Even if, for argument's sake, we say that it fails to achieve its noble purpose, it will in no way harm the students of Gujarat.

    In my last response, I asked two questions. Who are opposing this proposal and what is their motive behind opposing it? The proposal is harmless. In no way, it will harm even a single student. It may develop a sense of patriotism to the students. I feel that an evil force working against the country and their Indian supporters are opposing this proposal tooth and nail. And, some Indians who want to be included in the group of 'liberal intellectuals' are supporting these evil forces without properly understanding the evil game-plan. These innocent people who have been fallen prey to the propaganda of the anti-national forces must be informed about every aspect relating to the proposal.

    And the Government of Gujarat must go ahead with this novel and noble proposal, Other State Governments must follow suit.

    Concluding my argument, I convey my best wishes to other participants of this Active GD. My special thanks go to Dr. Srinivasa Rao who raised this pertinent topic for discussion. I also thank the Editor(s) who has/have converted this thread to an Active GD.

    Beware! I question everything and everybody.

  • #656264
    Small drops make an ocean. Little steps start a big journey. I appreciate the subtle efforts taken in the schools in Gujarat state and wish that others should copy it.

    There are various methods and techniques for making the students realise about their country, motherland and our good cultural words and they may take it seriously or not but it will definitely create an atmosphere of national dignity and pride.

    People argue that just by uttering a few words the patriotism does not come and it has to be inculcated from the ground level or root level. My point is that this symbolic attempt in Gujarat is at that level only. Uttering words of our history and culture do not go waste. They reside in our subconsciousness and affect our integrity.

    If words are not important and effective then why different sects are using their own words with preference? For example the 'Hare Krishna, Hare Ram' movement uses Krishna before Ram. They chant in that sequence only. They talk of Krishna consciousness and not that of the Ram. On the other hand the Vaishnav (the Vishnu sect ) hindus feel that Ram should be at number one place. So uttering words has some universal appeal and it will definitely affect the students to be biased in the intended direction.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #656265
    Jai Hind.
    My final conclusion.
    Just saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' as a response to a call of a teacher to check the presence of a student won't instill any patriotic feeling in the minds of the students in a country like India which is divided by states and languages. There are various other means to instill patriotism in the minds of citizens of India as brought out by me in this group discussion.

    I sincerely thank Mr. Rao for raising an excellent topic for discussion, and the members who have put up their best to make the discussion interesting.

    Jai Hind.

    No life without Sun

  • #656266
    SuN Sir,
    Actually, the members who have supported the decision conveyed a point very clearly in their posts that the decision is not a harmful one. A small step towards patriotism but why do you object to such a good idea is really questionable.
    In the last post you mentioned, I must understand that the seed of patriotism should be sowed by the parents so let me ask you one simple question, should the teachers teach the students to love and respect their parents and family or not? The school should teach only A, B, C, D and so on, right?
    I have nothing more to add to this GD because I have tried to put forward my opinion very clearly and gave counter-arguments too. I truly enjoyed participating in it because it's a great exercise of thought process. Thanks a lot to every member.

    shampasaid

  • #656269
    Shampa Sadhya,
    You made me respond again after my concluding post. I too agree that the decision by Gujrat government is not harmful at all, but it is not very helpful to instill the patriotic feeling in this manner.
    Jai Hind.
    END

    No life without Sun

  • #656272
    Few members have expressed that answering the attendance call by saying 'Jai Hind' or 'Jai Bharat' will not be helpful and cannot instil patriotism in the student's mind. I would like to conclude my response with a few more points.

    1. The feelings of anything is inside the mind which cannot be measured in any way. Only certain actions will indicate the feelings of an individual. I cannot agree with members who think that the government circular is ineffective. The effect will be understood after following the procedure continuously and observing the action of students afterwards.
    2. We celebrate Independence Day, Republic Day, Martyr's day etc for specific reasons and during all these specific Days we sing our National Anthem. It also shows our love for the nation. The respect for the country doesn't come only through remembering the Motherland and the martyrs on specific days, it has to be done on a regular basis. The government circular is an attempt towards making it a habit among students to keep the country in mind all the time.
    3. A country will have different states and its people may speak different languages, but they sing the National Anthem only in one language. Therefore, I cannot agree with those who think that language and culture will be a barrier to implement this order.
    4. The positive effect will be understood only after the proper implementation of the order and we need to wait for sometime to see the changes.

    Jai Hind.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"


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