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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Pl. help me in understanding the core issues of “terrorism”.

    I would like to refer the thread Is there no solution to end terrorism? and more specifically the comment "#658785/Umar" wherein he focused more into the understanding the "the root cause of the problem" (First para) & "the core issue" (the second last para) in order to stop the terrorism. Although I was waiting for his valuable comment against to my response "#658799" but sadly the thread got closed yesterday. The members had different opinions on the thread including Saji Ganesh/#658793 who came in support of him but in this thread I only intend to understand the basic elements which have led to the terrorism. I have specifically pointed out few & this is important for me to listen to their views.

    In addition, few of the comments got deleted from the link & for sure that those comments might have crossed the limitations of ISC & therefore no one should have objected to this & so do I but in Pulwama district more than 40 of our Jawans got martyred through suicide bombing & few are more into knowing about how that gentleman raised to the suicide bomber. Anyhow let's talk about the core issues of "terrorism" in the first place.
  • #658891
    It's hard to understand what do people get by becoming a terrorist. Do they get money for it? Maybe. They are like other murderers who take money to kill people.

    Terrorists want to terrorize people in order to make their presence felt. The main goal of terrorism is to make people bow and their demands may get fulfilled. Terrorists, on one hand, do not care for themselves but care for their colleagues or their relatives or family members.

    It's not that they target a specific group for them their motive is to just kill people at any cost to create a sort of fear in our mind. The bosses of these terrorist groups are very intelligent. They make strategies and don't come up openly but focus more on the training of the youths and brainwash them and make them emotionless and fearless that they don't even fear of being killed. Actually, such people are already frustrated in life and by killing innocent people they think they will be able ro take some sort of revenge.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658900
    #658891/Sanjeev Gupta, being terrorist means either they will blown themselves or get killed during encounter & in both the cases what will happen to the money then? Have you heard of the Mumbai attacks during November 2008 in India & whether they did so for the sake of money?

  • #658902
    In some poor families, the parents will have more children and they can't take care of their children properly. They will not get a proper education and get indulged in some bad habits. Some selfish people who want to promote unrest among the people and who are having a more religious bent of mind will attract such children and train them as they want by showing them the money which is the weakness of these children. They will train them as suicide squad by throwing good money to their families This is how this terrorism is getting spread. The main reason is poverty, I think. This is the main reason for this terrorism to get spread.

    I think the root cause is not having proper planning of the family by some parents and the exploitation of such children and families by showing money. If people can make a plan for their family and if they can take care of their families correctly, terrorism may come down to a maximum extent possible.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #658906
    # Ved Prakash..that is their wish they want that money to be handed over to their family members so that they may not live in poverty, also they get fame in their community for sacrificing themselves for Jihad
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658907
    #658902/DR.N.V. Srinivasa Rao, I give you an example of the Kashmiri Pandits who were thrown away from their own land & in another instance our streets of any locations can be found to be full of downtrodden but how often that we witness them picking-up gun / AK-47 & beginning to shoot to the passerby or rap them up with explosives & attack the convoy of the security personnel. It's never.

    If being "under poverty line" was a concern in order to become a terrorists or not then Osama Bin Laden wouldn't ever have been there. In the meantime the rocket that we use during various ceremonies can be purchased in the range of Rs. 50/- above & therefore imagine what the 300 kgs of explosives would have priced at & this is along with the SUV. If it was a concern of lack of money than that gentleman should have sold that stock of ammunition & started his own business.

    I do feel that we shouldn't be that much ignorant in order to not to understand this simple aspect.

  • #658908
    #658906/Sanjeev Gupta, why you are to using the term, "sacrificing themselves for Jihad" here? Is it connected in someway?

  • #658909
    # Ved Prakash--I said that they want fame also with the money, by doing so they fulfil both the desires that's why they become suicide bombers and kill many people at a time.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658910
    #658908 This is their terminology I am using here, they call it like that.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658911
    #658909/Sanjeev Gupta, this whole lot of training of technologies & ammunitions & then use these skill for killing for the sake of for being famous!!!!! Why do they cover their faces then & then try to get away from the spot if they so much like suicide operations.

  • #658913
    Because they know if they don't hide their face people won't let live their family members. They don't want to disclose their identity just for this reason. Do you think they hide their face because they feel ashamed of what they did? No.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658914
    #658910/Sanjeev Gupta, what do they mean with this terminology which you referred to as, "sacrificing themselves for Jihad". Could you pl. do some research & let us know more about it?

  • #658916
    #658913, do you feel that even after this the intelligence agencies would be unable to locate them? The gentleman involved in the suicide explosion in the Pulwama district had initially released his own video so what the motive here? He is disclosed with his identity & we know about his past too along with his elders. Possibly he was inexperienced in this field & therefore unable to remove the traces.

  • #658918
    Dear Mr Ved Prakash Ji, this is the case of a suicide bomber and he died in the attack so he didn't hide his face. Also, he was absconding from his house for a year. I don't know if he has a family member or not. He is from south Kashmir and many of such people came from this place in the past so I don't think it would be a trouble for his parents if they are present.

    I used this terminology because they feel proud of their people if they get killed in such attacks. Don't you know about Burhan Wani? How his funeral took place?. He was a soldier for their community and a terrorist for us.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658923
    So do you feel that its a community based trend & mostly favored by fame & less favored by money. Have I understood you correctly?

  • #658924
    Its depends on the person to person.

    I think you don't want to understand...hahaha

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658925
    What do we get an idea from your statement then that, "He was a soldier for their community and a terrorist for us".

  • #658928
    The Time of India reported:
    At least 40 CRPF personnel were killed on Thursday in one of the deadliest terror attacks in Jammu & Kashmir when a Jaish suicide bomber rammed a vehicle carrying over 100 kg of explosives into their bus in Pulwama district.
    Just see the opposite side story:
    The Dawn Pakistan reported:
    Freedom fighter launches attack,44 of occupying forces killed in IOK. Refusing to bow down to the ever increasing Indian brutalities in Indian Occupied Kashmir, the freedom fighters on Thursday struck back hard at the occupational forces when a car bomb ripped through the Indian military convoy killing 44 soldiers.

    Mr Ved Prakash Anand, You can continue searching the root cause of terrorism till the end of the world..

  • #658929
    # for their community# you didn't understand the meaning of it, i think.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658930
    I have been telling since time immemorial that the marxist theory of poverty being the route cause behind terrorism is not only false, but also dangerous. Osama bin Laden was not poor. Aiman al Jawahiri was not poor. Che Guevara was not poor. The separatist Hooriyat leaders of Kashmir are not poor.

    Friends, please study terrorism. Terrorism is the next step of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism means a belief that my ideology is the best. Terrorism goes a step farther. It says that my ideology is the best and I would force you to accept my ideology by creating terror by selective use of violence with the shrewd assistance (direct or indirect) from media. Poor people don't become terrorists.

    Mr. Ved Prakash Anand has given an apt example. How many Kashmiri Pandits (whose family members were killed, raped and their properties and temples destroyed) have become terrorists? Please study terrorism to fight it. Don't give lame excuses in favour of terrorists.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658931
    Osama bin Laden was a mastermind and he used to run Al Quida. He was not an ordinary person like suicide bombers. He used to train people not used to directly involved in the attacks.

    Partha, what is your concept about terrorism?.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658932
    I don't have any different concept. I had to study International Terrorism as a paper while I was doing my Masters in International Relations. Whatever I have written above is based upon the study (views of experts on the subject).

    It is now an established fact that poverty is not the root cause of terrorism. Fundamentalism (be it religious, ideological, territorial or any other) is the beginning of terrorism.

    Please don't go on repeating outdated, obsolete and nonsensical marxist (small m) propaganda establishing a relationship between poverty and terrorism.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658934
    [Response removed by Admin. Read forum policies.]
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658935
    Partha, most of the people join due to economic benefits, few for religious reason and few are forced to join the terrorist groups. There is a relationship between poverty and terrorist.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658937
    Requesting all to read the parents comment in this article - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-bomber/kashmir-suicide-bomber-radicalized-after-beating-by-troops-parents-say-idUSKCN1Q41LK

  • #658938
    As Mr Partha has rightly pointed out in his replies about the terrorist activities and fundamentalism, there is no direct relationship between poverty and terrorism. If there were any relations then most of the family members staying below the poverty line in India could have chosen that path.

    Jobless youths can be lured with money to do certain unlawful acts, they are lured to carry out terror activities also but here, in this case, fundamentalism is the cause and terror activities are the outcomes.

    Sankalan

    "Life is easier when you enjoy what you do"

  • #658940
    A Member has referred to an article which claimed that the suicide bomber joined JeM because some armed forces personnel had insulted him when he had been a student. Prashant Bhushan tweeted the same.

    I must state very clearly that this is only a statement of the terrorist's father. There is absolutely no proof. Now the so-called liberal brigade is trying to present it as an excuse for this despicable act.

    Members! Please don't believe these lies. These despicable lies are being spread by the anti-national liberals to create doubts in your mind. They want people to become anti-Army. Don't fall in their trap. Whenever these anti-nationals say this, demand clear and direct proof from them.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658941
    My opinion was: Terrorism can be stopped if we sincerely work towards it. But I feel pity for some responses in ISC.

    Everyone I think knows the problem in Kashmir, every member I think knows it very well. I don't even need to explain it to some members in ISC.

    Pulwama attack in which precious lives were lost, I equally feel pained at the loss of lives, was the most tragic and gruesome attack which should not have happened.

    However, I have no qualms in mentioning that Pulwama attack is the outcome of the muscular and repressive policies of political leadership.

    But I am optimistic about peace and prosperity, and with efforts, there can be an end to terrorism.

    We can make efforts and encourage our political leadership to save human lives and stop provoking each other for blood for blood approach. we can't live with terrorism all the time.
    So, yes, terrorism can be stopped with sincere efforts.

    We can't stop terrorism either by bringing stringent laws as operation all out, AFSAPA, and other draconian laws are already there proving useless and futile and only creating trouble common people. All these things could not stop terrorism. Brining muscular laws, as some members have pointed out in response, can not solve the problem. All stringent laws escalate the situation.
    Violence begets violence only and multiplies hate among communities. Pulwama attack can be taken as one such example.

    The solution is winning the heart's of the people which can not be done by attacking Kashmiri's working and students studying in different institutions of the country.
    Sarpanches can't shout expulsion of Kashmiri's students and force them to evacuate accommodation. This is how you win the Kashmir's hearts. And this is how Pulwama attack is being used as an excuse to harass people from Kashmir.

    I also feel surprised at how Kashmiri's have been reduced to trash when nobody condemns the innocent killings in Kashmir. Laks have been killed in Kashmir but no words of condemnation from anyone as if birds are being culled! Think a moment hate brigade!

    What is the fault of Kashmiri's working and studying in different institutions in different states of India? Why so much hate? Can't these insane people stop this insanity on Kashmiri's staying in different parts of India?

    We respect the people working in the Valley from different states of India to earn their livelihood or some come for studies but we don't steep low like blood-thirsty! We are peace-loving and longing for peace and prosperity. Nobody can imagine how it feels to be in the conflict-torn state than we Kashmiris, so lectures hardly digest!

    No stringent policy, no tit for tat only friendship, love, peace and prosperity which is badly missed!

  • #658942
    Terrorism will stop when terrorists cease to exist. So, the way is:
    (a) First, eliminate the terrorists.
    (b) Squeeze their funds.
    (c) Close the route of delivery of the weapons.
    (d) Force the media and liberals to stop being sympathetic towards these abominable creatures

    Then only then, talk to common people from a position of strength. Fulfill their genuine demands and outrightly reject their illegitimate ones.

    Learn from Israel.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658943
    Mr. Ved Prakash Anand: You have stated that "few of the comments got deleted from the link & for sure that those comments might have crossed the limitations of ISC ".

    In this connection, I must clarify that in the previous thread of Ms. Neeru Bhatt, the Editor deleted two of my responses. In these two responses, I merely asked a Member to be angry instead of being sorry (for the tragedy). I also asked him not to forget the tragedy in seven days, as Indians generally do.

    An Editor found these responses highly objectionable and against the Forum policy. Why I don't know. But I am now habituated to this treatment from the Editor(s).

    (This particular response may also be deleted.)

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658944
    Somewhere I agree with Umar. Why don't we think why the hell people are joining the terrorist groups? We need to understand the behaviour of the people there. Why do they react like this? Something is there which make them Burhan Wani or Adil Ahmad.

    I know it's not easy to sort out the matter with love when the people of Kashmir don't understand the army anything. Many times we have seen tge students even girls throwing stones on them. Why do they do that?

    Something needs to be done. As after losing 42 lives of the soldiers situation is going to be more difficult. Hope the things go well. Involvement of Pakistan, in this case, cannot be denied.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658945
    #658938/Sankalan Bhattacharya, even if we assume that whatever you and Partha Sir is coming-up with is true but then how would you see the stand of Sanjeev Gupta/#658935 or vice-versa?

  • #658947
    Mr. Anand: The general and over-simplistic response that poverty is the root cause of terrorism comes from the following:-

    (i) People don't want to go to the depth of the issue and carry out the complicated study.
    (ii) Hindus don't want to criticize others because of their nurturing.
    (iii) They don't study the religious scriptures of other religions.

    I don't want to elaborate further.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658949
    I want to stick to the subject about the core issues of "terrorism" & I am not intended for any discussion on the J&K issues or if someone is interested then they can go ahead with the separate thread & so no more emotional provocations pl.

  • #658950
    A Member has stated that "Laks have been killed in Kashmir ". Is it factually correct? If it is correct, then kindly provide statistical proof with detailed numbers of killing. If not, I ask the Editor to delete the response and punish the Member who has made this irresponsible statement.
    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658953
    #658941/Umar, the grown-up man with AK-47 & explosives including the separatists are most fortunate to be here with enjoying the VIP treatment with limelight in the news throughout their lives or else they would have been killed or eliminated or had to be put behind bars for the rest of their lives if this used to be the land of some other nation.

    #658944/Sanjeev Gupta, you came out with two names as Burhan Wani & Adil Ahmad resulting due to the stringent policies by the Indian government but at the same time do you remember of Nov'2008 Mumbai terror attacks. What was that & what the hell that those innocent & armless local citizens had to do with J&K here? or it wasn't a terror attack at all but a misguided youth with AK-47 & explosives. And what about 2001 Indian Parliament attack? Pl. put some more light onto the Kashmiri Pundits who were thrown away from the valleys & whether they all soon be preparing for revenge.

  • #658954
    Ved Prakash..No one can deny the pain the Kashmiri Pandits suffered and it's not a surprise if they came up to take revenge. I have a few friends who told me the truth and how did they suffer and forced to leave Kashmir.

    But there is a difference not everyone becomes a terrorist. As far as in India I haven't seen a Hindu a terrorist.

    Note: Please don't think that I am in favour of these terrorists I am against them and want them to be eliminated to have peace and prosperity in our country.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658956
    When we want to assess the root cause of a problem we land into bigger territories where the concern like poverty, injustice, lack of education, availability of people for suicidal acts, religious and social exploitation etc come into picture.

    Definitely the improvement in the system or adopting a tough regime can be a solution to eradicate terrorism but yes, how to nip it in the bud during its nascent stages is a question which is intriguing us all equally.

    Just by becoming sensitive and sentimental is not going to solve this problem. In many parts of the world terrorism is thriving in one form or other. It is said that it generates from the injustice and neglect of some class of the people who have otherwise good potential to become a good citizen. Every person can not become terrorist. The shrewd and clever instigator knows this and chooses the select few for these jobs of suicidal killings.

    I fully believe that social injustice and inability of any regime to engage its young generation in constructive work creates these disgruntled people who are ready to give their lives for such mean and dirty jobs.

    World wide the terrorism is funded by some agencies who have a long time political agenda behind this. We generally say that such and such country is behind this terrorism activity but that county itself is also facing terrorism from other groups internal or external.

    So the deep rooted problem can not be solved in one day. Moreover it requires a change in shift in the governance in the countries where multiple religions and cultures are embedded in the national integrity canvass. In very few places across the world such basic precautions and measures are being adopted which help in reducing the terrorism at its root level. Most of the places we are only retaliating and that is the end of it. The terrorists again strike back with full vengeance.

    Knowledge is power.

  • #658960
    I have been asked in the thread to provide statistics, so here follows the unending list of massacres and few links at the end but start with this link:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/freepresskashmir.com/2018/10/22/bijbehara-massacre-a-survivor-account/

    1. Magarmalbagh, srinager, 19 Jan, 1991. 11 civilians were killed.
    2.Rakhi haigam sopore, 11 March, 1991. 6 civilians were killed including a 12 year old boy.
    3. Sopore massacre: 6 Jan, 1990, 53 civilians were killed using gun powder.
    4.Threhgam, kupwara massacre: 16 March 1991. 7 civilian were shot dead including imam of mosque during prayers.
    5.Khanyar srinager: 5 may 1991, 5 civilians were killed including a 3 year old girl.
    6.pir dastageer, khanyar, srinagar: 18 may 1991, 18 civilians were killed including 2 year old baby and his father.
    7.Chottabazar incident srinagar: 11 June 1991, 32 civilians were killed including children and women.
    8.Aloosa bandipore, 2 april, 1992, five fishermen were killed and later bodies were recovered from wular lake.
    9.lal chock incident: 2 July 1992, 6 civilians were killed.
    10.Ishber nishat: 6 July 1992, 7 civilians were killed.
    11.Aadipore sopore incident: 20 nov 1993, 6 civilians were killed including a women.
    12.Sanghrama, Baramulla:24 Nov 1993, 7 civilians were killed.
    13. Arin, Baramulla: 19 September 1997, 11 civilians were killed.
    14.Doda incident: July 28, 1998, 16 civilians were killed.
    15.chitisingpura massacre: 20 March 2000, 35 were brutely killed.
    16. Shopian rape and murder: 29-30 may2009, two young women were raped and murdered.
    17.During 2010 unrest: 120 mostly teens were killed.
    18. In 2016: 120+ killings and 15000 injured.
    And list goes on and on.

    https://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/kashmir/sopore-massacre-when-57-civilians-were-shot-dead-on-jan-6-1993/271284.html

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenews.com.pk/amp/408599-the-pulwama-massacre

  • #658963
    Mr Partha, I think you need to get answers to your questions:

    (i) People don't want to go to the depth of the issue and carry out the complicated study.

    There is nothing complicated. Yes, a group of people Kashmir don't like the culture of India and want to get included in Pakistan and that's what Pakistan teach the youths of Kashmir. And the youths because they are made to learn hatred towards us from their childhood so easily go in the wrong path.


    (ii) Hindus don't want to criticize others because of their nurturing.

    Every religion teaches us not to criticise any other religion and treat people equally. So dont talk about the religion as it itself is a vast subject and i think you also dont know much about it.


    (iii) They don't study the religious scriptures of other religions.

    Why should one study about other religions when they dont have time to study their own?. I think you may have time ro study other religion because you know more than anyone else about our religion.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658967
    1. #658960: The cases mentioned here have not been proved to be the handiwork of the Army. The conclusion is not beyond doubt. But even then, these cases account for 467+ deaths. Not even one thousand. What about ''laks have been killed in Kashmir"? 467 and 'laks'-what is the difference?

    2. #658963: I will give only one example. "Every religion teaches us not to criticise any other religion and treat people equally." A very childish response. Think about Zizya Tax. It has been sanctioned in religious scripture. If all religions are/were treated equally, then how did this concept come in the religious book?

    It would be better for me not to waste my time to answer childish responses.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658972
    Partha,
    Pakistan is born out of hatred towards India. That hatred forces them to hit India wherever possible.
    As US withdrawn from Pakistan, China is milking them now. They are almost bankrupt. Till now, PM Modi has done only surgical military strikes. If he start Economic strikes, Pakistan will be nowhere. Corner them till they withdraw support to separatists. That may be the policy. Let the so-called liberals bark.

  • #658981
    "Jizya tax was introduced by Islamic ruler Qutb-ud-din-Aibak. It was imposed on non- Muslims to pay". This tax was not tortured. It was collected just for the protection of non-muslims. And the tax was fixed by understanding the earnings of the people. The poor won't pay the same tax what the rich used to pay. This tax was to be paid by the non-Muslim people for living on Muslim land.

    Akbar temporarily abolished this tax was finally abolished in 1579. However, Aurangzeb reintroduced jizya.

    Partha, it seems you are totally against Islam.

    It was abolished in the 20th century. But I agree they are very radical about their religion unlike us.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #658990
    We have discussed some issues related to the terrorism in an earlier thread (incidentally it was posted by me) and the discussion is still continuing in a very healthy pattern.

    I want to add one thing that the terrorists are inducting the children when they are of tender age and the minds of these children are almost poisoned with many wrong notions. These children when they grow up, become more aggressive and dangerous for the whole society. They are being used by the terrorists for the destructive purposes.

    Thoughts exchanged is knowledge gained.

  • #658998
    ""Jizya tax was introduced by Islamic ruler Qutb-ud-din-Aibak. It was imposed on non- Muslims to pay". This tax was not tortured. It was collected just for the protection of non-muslims."----------------------This is too much! It is not a new tax. It has been mentioned in the religious scriptures. This tax used to be levied on non-Muslims in Arabia since the seven century.

    This jizya tax proves that fundamentalism has religious sanction. This is the root cause of terrorism.

    Why don't people study before commenting?

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #658999
    Partha but we can't kill hatred by hatred. We need to impose sanctions on Pakistan so that they may not be able to send funds to the people to avail ammunitions and weapons. That's the only way to stop terrorism in the country. Also, we need to have a very strict law against the cross border movement. Either it may be from Nepal or Bangladesh, Srilanka, Bhutan and Myanmar.
    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #659007
    "Also, we need to have a very strict law against the cross border movement."----------Ufff...! Another statement which proves that people are awfully unaware of reality. Is there any dearth of strict law for illegal entry in India? People are blissfully unaware of the issue.
    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #659009
    Yes, there are no strict rules. I have seen many of the Bangladeshis in Delhi illegally entered in India and doing work. Should it not be stopped?. It seems you are unaware of it. It's very easy to intrude in India from Bangladesh. In the past, we had a maid who was a Bangladeshi and used to stay there for six months and then uses to come back to India for work.

    What is the reality by the way partha? Pls, explain if you know something else.

    Let me see how you respond to this childish response.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #659016
    We are often more driven with the values & with the hidden feelings that these suddenly gets pop-up in some uncontrolled behavior & responses but that's what the human being is all about & therefore let's consider this all.

    #658960/Umar, your statistics is incomplete with limited to one specific state & perhaps you are limiting your references of the atrocities to one specific community only. Isn't it? Pl. clarify because for me the concern is not limited to around one specific region or with specific community but it is important for us to consider this on a bigger picture & on a much larger scale & if we do so then this will go beyond the physical boundary of J&K & not limiting to the post-independence era but this will also cover-up the whole of our nation with pre-independence era extended up to the Mughal Empire as well & then count & make a note on about who has been the bigger sufferer & who suffered with the biggest atrocities till date which many of us are not & wouldn't ever be interested onto.

    Umar, pl. make us understandable of 2008 Mumbai terror attacks & how those were related to the then in context to the J&K state.

  • #659018
    We the people who believes that, "we can't kill hatred by hatred" should be sent to all those regions wherein the misguided youth are taking selfies with AK-47 including the LOC in order to realize that this can't be possible because from far of these areas & circumstances this seems very realistic on those terms but not practical when we ourselves are facing to those directly.

    We are having onto the discussion here & we are evident of the exchange of words which seems uncontrolled & inappropriate & this is even when this whole got started just yesterday & so in just two days we got so much frustration but they want others to follow the suite but don't want to implement on themselves. Each of the members pl. take a note on this because many of us still believe that the dialogue process should start but even if we agree to this then dialogue with whom? Have we gone through with their background yet?

    #658941/ Umar, you came-up with a whole lot of lecture here but pl. take a note of all those who come in support of the people of J&K during the time of natural disasters because for me it's the Indian government & the Indian army only and no other give a damn shit to the people of this state than, not Pakistan or the misguided youths or the separatist leaders or not even the leaders of the so called the secular parties & if we go on adding than not even the spiritual leaders.

  • #659027
    "Yes, there are no strict rules. I have seen many of the Bangladeshis in Delhi illegally entered in India and doing work. Should it not be stopped?. It seems you are unaware of it. It's very easy to intrude in India from Bangladesh. In the past, we had a maid who was a Bangladeshi and used to stay there for six months and then uses to come back to India for work.

    What is the reality by the way partha? "

    Sir Cyril Radcliffe drew the border between two new-born nation using a pencil and a map sitting in Delhi. As a result, if you visit Darjeeling district in West Bengal or Pancchgarh District in Bangladesh, you will find an extremely narrow strip of a village road of less than 6 feet wide. One side of the road is Bangladesh and another side is India. If you go to Taki near Kolkata, you will find that the imaginary line at the middle of Ichamati River is the international boundary. If you go to Krishnaghati sector in Jammu, the zig-zag International Border (IB) along with River Kishanganga forms the IB, where border fencing is not possible. Same is at Turtouk in Kargil sector. If you go to Kutch, the IB border changes after each desert storm.

    I can give hundreds of similar example from my personal experience. Even after so much of advancement of technology, thanks to Sir Cyril Radcliffe, it is absolutely not possible to stop infiltration. Further, this is continuously being encouraged by short-sighted political leaders. If possible, try to read some authentic papers how the Sylhet referendum was held. You will be astonished. You will also find that the politician who conspired with Pakistanis to make Sylhet a part of East Pakistan later Bangladesh, was awarded with the Presidentship of India.

    There are very strict rules against illegal migration, but only if the person is captured. The socio-cultural scenario at the border is such that it is very difficult to capture such migrants.

    I do know about Bangladeshi work-force in Delhi, Mumbai, Jammu, Jaipur, entire West Bengal, Bengaluru and in the North-East.

    Please acquire personal experience. If not possible, then study. Only then, comment.

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #659028
    Partha that is where we need to increase vigilance so that illegal entrance to our country can be eliminated.

    I appreciate your knowledge....hehe.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #659031
    "Partha that is where we need to increase vigilance so that illegal entrance to our country can be eliminated. "----How? Go to Panchagarh District village mentioned above. If you want to purchase bidi or paan (betel leaves) from a shop which is less than a hundred meters distant from your house, you have to enter India illegally. No electronic surveillance works. Then, how can you stop? When people at both sides of the border speak the same dialect, how can you identify infiltrators? How can you find the International Border at Jaisalmer after a desert storm? How can you stop infiltration?
    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #659032

    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #659037
    Ved Prakash, may this thread be locked if you have understood the core issues that give rise to terrorism? I don't think your doubt has been clarified but it is so and that is the fact.
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance' - Confucious.

  • #659038
    "...... if you have understood the core issues that give rise to terrorism? I don't think your doubt has been clarified but it is so and that is the fact."----------------Isn't it self-contradictory?
    Come on, have a fight. Don't shoot and scoot.

  • #659044
    Partha, let it be so. My question is to the author, remember. Experts (by all means) could not clarify his doubt and hence the query. There is no point in allowing fruitless discussions to carry on.
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance' - Confucious.

  • #659048
    I am not lecturing anyone here I only provide facts in response to your queries.
    And if anyone thinks during a natural disaster you helped us it is your perception.

    Any terror attack demands condemnation and killings won't help us anyway. May Almighty protect us all.

    I am shocked some members are happy to count the death!

    There are so many tragedies I can't give you all the minutely details here. Please don't go for statistics, count you word of love and compassion!

    I only hope for peace in the entire world not only in our country. May we all live in peace and prosperity.

  • #659049
    Partha,
    I read your Pest control thread.
    We are having many terror sympathizers here due to inherent hatred towards our establishments/political system. Sometimes these people will come up with so many emotional stories, statistics and other data to justify their points. Identifying those blots will be difficult for us as a common man. I think, a system already exists under IB to monitor them.

  • #659052
    Even I read Partha's pest control thread.

    All the cases he mentioned I have read in the newspaper. He has not mentioned the case of Jantar Mantar in Delhi in it where a Kashmiri youth was beaten for raising anti-India slogan there.

    But I still emphasise that we need to find out the reason first why they think like this. What do they get from it?.

    Sanjeev

    " It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not" ... Andre Gide

  • #659054
    #659037/Saji Ganesh, you are well aware of the facts here & for rest I leave up to the wisdom & intelligence of others to decide onto this. In addition, I wouldn't call this a fruitless discussion but instead informative one wherein we have looked at this from different angles & view points which the other internet users would find it more beneficial in order to come to a certain point.

  • #659055
    In addition, I don't have to say anything on this & therefore I leave this up to the ISC team to close this thread or to keep this active for some more time.

  • #659056
    Thank you Ved Prakash for that balanced understanding of facts though I am not sure whether your basic query has been answered. One must start thinking with his heart into it to understand the basic problem. I hope our followers will stand benefitted by the views expressed by our members bringing out different sides of the topic. This thread is being locked to avoid repetitive views. Hope our members won't venture to bring this topic for discussion again under a different guise.
    'Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance' - Confucious.


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