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  • Category: Miscellaneous

    Govt ready to hold farm laws for 18 months. Tactical move indeed

    The ongoing tussle between the farm union and the govt has taken a new turn as farmers on the advise of their advocate Prashant Bhushan expressed no confidence on the committee set up by the court and on the other hand the govt has offered to put on hold the new laws for 18 months so that the committee gives a formidable report. This is the tactical move as the govt gets the respite, the farmers would loose their unity and disintegrate slowly and the matter would be totally forgotten. So the Congress which initiated this stir has caught unaware of this new development.
  • #721134
    From what you say, the Government wants to destroy the unity of the agitating farmers, and at the same time wants to get respite. It is foolish for anyone to think this agitation is instigated by others.
    Why the Government should resort to such unethical tactics? Is it because they do not know how to solve the problem or having a motive other than the betterment of farmers? The best thing is to repeal the laws and bring new ones in consultation with all the stakeholders.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721136
    This Govt does not work in haste or without homework. They consider each and every thing about a particular problem and search the solutions in an out of the box manner. During the agitation many people were telling that the Govt should call the army and arrest the agitators but that is a hasty decision. See what happened when the emergency was declared by the earlier Govt? People revolted against that and the Govt lost on all the fronts. So a wise and intelligent Govt will do the things in the best of the ways without affecting the sentiments of the general public but at the same time it has to deal with the anti-national, goondas, and terrorist elements in a stern way. That is the real challenge for any Govt.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #721138
    This last meeting between farmer-unions and the delegation of the government has brought some positive aspect of this standoff. It is a welcome step of the government that it has offered to farmer unions to suspend these laws for more than one year and have assured them to keep these laws on hold for more longer period too. Why government is on backfoot, reasons are obvious-
    (1) Propsoed really of farmers on 26th January has created embarrassing situation for the government, even SC has clearly refused to accept Delhi Police's request to stop this rally entering Delhi. As it is the duty of DP how to deal with it. However, now farmers have given some comfort to DP. Now, they will run their tractors (3 lac as they have claimed) on ring road only (Ring road is a circular road covers the whole city)
    (2) The manner in which this protest is progressing has astonished everybody. Even other countries have eyes on this protest.
    (3) They are reluctant to accept any interference of any political party. They want to keep and maintain it as a apolitical movement.
    (4) They are getting support from local people, all farmers of the country and even support of BJP MPs/leaders (as per Tiket).
    (5) Most of the farmers are BJP voters and the government would not like to lose its voters also.

    Today they have their meeting with all their farmer-unions (approximately 500), then they will inform the government on next meeting on 22nd January what their stand is on the proposal of the government

    The author has wrong conception about farmers as if they are stupid. I advise him to Google to listen to Mahender Singh Tiket, the president of Bhartiya Kisan Union. He is as witty as Laloo Prasad Yadav. He is almost playing with his rhetoric.

  • #721141
    This is time for the farmers to return home. The Supreme Court has stayed the farm laws. The government has suspended the laws for the next 18 months. A committee has been formed to hear the farmers and the union government and submit a report to the Supreme Court. What else can be done? Repeal of the law which has been passed and signed by the President is not possible. According to the constitution, a repeal of any law need to win the votes of a two-thirds majority of the MPs. This is not possible as BJP has the absolute majority.
    During this period of 18 months, the farm laws can be discussed well pointwise, sentence wise, and word-wise, to make necessary changes and amendments to the three laws. Adamancy and stubbornness by the farmers insisting on repeal should be dropped.
    Farmers should realize and act forgetting repeal of the law.
    I strongly believe that the real farmers would accept this, and the anti-national Khalistan farmers and the supporters of Congress and Communists would insist on repeal..repeal..repeal... They should be identified and booked.

    No life without Sun

  • #721151
    @SuN: " I strongly believe that the real farmers would accept this, and the anti-national Khalistan farmers and the supporters of Congress and Communists would insist on repeal..repeal..repeal... They should be identified and booked."

    You mean to say that real farmers are not protesting and these farmers who are protesting around Delhi are anti-national Khalistani, communist and supporters of Congress party then what is the point on giving them 18 months or having a dialogue with them because almost 500 unions are protesting and almost all of them are from Punjab, and 40 leaders, almost all are Sikh except a few, are representing farmers in dialogues with the government. in this situation why they are given importance.? Why the force is not used against them I don't understand?
    Can they face force without weapons? Can they take law in their hands? Why have they not driven away from the spot and get booked?
    Do you know the government has no lose of votes in Punjab? Nevertheless, the government is not taking any stringent action against them. Why?
    Will you elaborate?

  • #721153
    Already the court has given stay for bringing new labour laws in force. So the government has to wait for the release of the stay. But now the government will not apply against the stay and wait for 18 months. If the court will not vacate the stay even after 18 months also, the government can't apply these rules.

    The farmers are expressing their unhappiness over the committee farmed by the court. Now what action court is going to take is not known. It is good on the part of the government to give sufficient time to farmers to think about the changes they wanted. Anyhow immediately the problem is not going to be sorted out I feel.

    always confident

  • #721156
    The farmers agitation is being led and guided by some vested interests who want to destabilise the present Govt. There is a group of the people in our country who want to come in power and enjoy the position. They are not able to digest that BJP is continuing in power for so many cycles. They are feeling envy of this and are trying to create problems for the Govt whenever they are getting chances. They have already availed this facility three times during the last one and half year and this the fourth opportunity. They will try to use it to the maximum possible level. They do not know whether they will get fifth opportunity or not. Whenever Govt wants to do something good for the country these elements will come on the forefront and fight for it by misleading the gullible public of this poor and developing country. They are threatening to create disturbance during 26th January which is, if they do it, will be taken as anti national act and then it will be an ugly situation. They should try to understand that if they do so it will further deteriorate their reputation. Opposition parties should try to understand that by doing these things they are losing their chances of winning in next elections as they are getting exposed due to these cheap tactics.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #721161
    We will come to know the real farmers and the duplicate farmers on the borders only after a decision is taken by the farmers union during the next meeting. If they still continue to go ahead with their adamant and stubborn attitude, we can be sure that they are not real farmers but are different farmers who want to create problems and defame the government.

    No life without Sun

  • #721182
    Since the government has put off the farm reforms for a period of 18 months, the stay by supreme court becomes invalid. The stay was only to console the farmers, until they receive a report from the committee. Now farmers are not ready to meet the committee. Hence SC might release the stay and say "Go with the government's decision".
    No life without Sun

  • #721194
    The agitating farmers have rejected the proposal by the Government to put on hold the farm laws by 18 months. They reiterated their demand for the repeal of the laws and a fresh law to ensure minimum support price for their produce. They further clarified that the tractor rally on Republic Day will be conducted as planned and the rally will be strictly on the ring road and will be peaceful. Now, what will happen, we have to wait and see.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721195
    @SuN: You didn't answer my questions. I don't think it is good to beat about the bush. Bottom line is if they are not farmers then the government should stop talking to them.
    Now, they have rejected the proposal of the government ,let's see what happens tomorrow. I hope that some amicable solution may come when they sit around the table and talk to government officials face to face.
    Hope for the best.

  • #721199
    It is possible that some of anti government elements might be mixed up with farmers but calling all of them as anti givernment is not true.
    This view is wrong that they are gathered there to destabilise the government. I don't think if anybody can accept it. They are gathered there to put their demands before the government. Our government is not too weak for them or any body else or party or group to destabilise. Central government is with full majority. No protest can harm the government
    Now government has given extremely great offer to farmers and they should not miss this opportunity to materialise lest they should realise what mistake they had done because now country is watching that government wants amicable solution but they are not ready to negotiate with the government. It will spread a wrong message across the country against farmers.

    Opposition parties are weak. They nowhere stand before the government.

  • #721200
    The farmers demand nothing but Repeal..Repeal..Repeal and repeated Repeal. They are not ready to bring out the defects/deficiency in the farm laws. They should be able to list out the deficiencies in the bill and ask the government to modify/change/amend the sections that affect them. That is what expected by the government and the people of this country. But the Punjab farmers are adamant with their thick heads, not to solve the issue, but to prolong the issue without a thought that the government rules this country.

    As I reiterate and say that the new farm laws are newborn babies that are to be nurtured and brought up. If the newborn babies have defects/deficiencies, they need to be cared for and cured. They cannot be killed. Repeal of the law is like killing newborn babies. Is it right?

    Due to their adamant attitude and not going by the words assured by the government, it is very clear that there are non-farmer forces in the protesting group. May be Khalitanis, Congress and Communists. They hire the farmers and make them to protest.

    No life without Sun

  • #721201
    In another thread earlier on this subject, I had said that it is wrong and deliberate adamancy on the part of the 'farmers' unions to demand total repeal of the subject Law(s). It is a law passed by the Parliament where the MPs are from all the states and not just from Punjab and Haryana. It is normal and proper to demand hearing them and discussion to amend or withdraw only the contentious and the non-beneficial clauses .

    By continuing to be staying adamant stuck on the only single point agenda of total repeal, the 'farmers unions' have exposed their ulterior political motives which gradually made people to lose sympathy on them.
    However the government side also failed to get the ground intelligence about what was brewing. They also failed in pooling and getting support from the real farmers from other states who got real benefits. The government could have tried to freeze the implementation only in the two states of Punjab and Haryana and isolated them( I am not aware of the legal possibility of this, but just a guess).
    Now as the Supreme court has in principle allowed a stay, it is just wise on the part of the government to declare deferring implementation of the law by suitable announcement and invite the farmers unions for discussion. If still they demand only repeal then the government has to deal with a strong hand and show that the government cannot be cowed down by anti-national interests.

    I feel the government and party machinery failed miserably in garnering support for the law from real farmers and farmers from other states. This is the main drawback of this central government. Due to lack of strong and factful propaganda, they allow rumours to take ground and lies become truths. Instead of getting credit to what is genuinely done, the central government gets trapped in avoidable webs of mis propaganda.

  • #721202
    The advocate of farmers union Prashant Bhushan seems to be misguiding them,
    K Mohan @ Moga
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #721227
    I would appreciate the government's decision to defer the farm laws for 18 months to get time for the government and farmers' unions to get the issue solved.

    The government should never do the mistake of the repeal of the farm laws. If done, the government will be considered as a weak government. And in the future, the government cannot pass any law that would be objected and repeal would be demanded quoting this as precedence.

    If the farmers' unions don't respect the stay order from the Supreme Court and the government suspending the implementation of the laws for 18 months, the government should deal with such protesting farmers with an iron hand. I think the Modi government will do it, firmly. It is too much of the farmers.

    Now, no one will blame the government if something goes wrong against the farmers who are adamant to go with the tractor march into the city of Delhi, despite the police denial to permit the tractor rally on Republic Day.

    No life without Sun

  • #721256
    It is high time for the government to come with some firmness and show that they are here to govern. The government will definitely get huge public support from common people and real farmers other than the committed party workers.

    If the government yields to the pressure tactics and blackmailing of these group now, then from there on the same trick will be played by everyone. I think the central government will do something in this regard.After all for everything there is a limit.
    The ancient Indian wisdom is Saama ,Daana ,Bheda Danda.

    The situation is like the saying 'you can wake up a sleeping person, but you cannot wake up a sleep-acting person. The 'farmer union' protestors are slep-acting.

  • #721261
    Prime Minister Modi has to care for the whole Indian farmers. It is only 6 percent of adamant farmers from Punjab and Haryana backed by anti-national forces and the opposition political parties are protesting against the law demanding a repeal. The protesting farmers are misled and misguided by a few advocates like PB of AAP. While 94 percent of Indian farmers are with the government and agreeing to an amendment to the farm laws, the demand from 6 percent of farmers for repeal is not justified. The government is to govern and the citizens to follow. Though democracy allows protesting, meaningless protests are not to be encouraged but dealt with firmly and strongly. The government should not yield to the pressure tactics. If so, it would be a useless and baseless government.

    We respect and honour the farmers, but not adamant minority rich farmers from Punjab and Haryana.

    No life without Sun

  • #721279
    I am posting here some of the observations made by the Chief Justice of India criticizing the Central Government for its handling of the farmer's protests.

    1. 'You Made A Law Without Enough Consultation".

    2. We are extremely disappointed at the way the government is handling all this (farmers' protests). We don't know what consultative process you followed before the laws. Many states are up in rebellion".

    3. We are sorry to say that you, as the Union of India, are not able to solve the problem. You have made law without enough consultation resulting in a strike.

    4. You tell us if you will put on hold the implementation of the laws. Otherwise, we will do it. What is the problem in keeping it in abeyance?

    5. We asked you this last occasion. But you haven't replied. And the matter is getting worse. People are committing suicide. People are suffering in the cold.
    We asked before vacations if they will put the laws on hold. They have not yet responded.

    6. We have an apprehension that someone will do something a day that will lead to a breach of peace. Each one of us will be responsible if something goes wrong. We don't want anybody's blood on our hands.
    The most serious concern occupying the court is the possible loss of life and property. This is the most important component of our view.

    7. We are not against protests. Don't understand that the Court is stifling protests,

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721285
    All the points raised by the court seems to be absurd as the court failed to understand the sweeping powers of a govt with majority to bring reforms.
    K Mohan @ Moga
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #721292
    Mr. Mohan, in your learned opinion, the Supreme Court is raising absurd points. Your contention is that the Supreme Court does not know what is Constitution, what are the powers of the Government and what are the powers of the Supreme Court. This only indicates your ignorance.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721294
    Calling Supreme court's points as absurd is wrong. Supreme Court knows very well what are the powers of the central government. Supreme Court may Only suggest the government when any bill is passed by the parliament. It can't quash any laws passed by the parliament except explaining its legality.

  • #721297
    I too feel that the comments of the Supreme Court is absurd and unwarranted. They cannot blame the government that it did not have consultations before passing the law. The Supreme court has not investigated the matter. Supreme Court should have avoided commenting on the legislature. Can the legislature blame and pass such absurd comments like this against the Supreme court?
    Supreme Court is going in the wrong direction.

    Supreme Court cannot cancel a bill or law passed by the parliament. It can be stayed but not cancelled or repealed. To repeal a law, it requires two-third majorities support in the parliament.

    No life without Sun

  • #721303
    This post proving to be a great debating thread and the latest news is that no future date assigned for talks and that proves the stir is going to fizzle out
    K Mohan @ Moga
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #721306
    When two eminent members declared that the Supreme Court is making absurd comments, there is nothing more to discuss. The rest we have to see as it unfolds.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721307
    Why some members are seeing from the horse view and not the overall.
    K Mohan @ Moga
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #721308
    Exactly the same thing is amazing to me. Why some people cannot see in proper perspective?
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721310
    We have three good pillars of democracy, the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. These pillars need to be stronger and hold together. One cannot blame the others. They should mind their own business and should not /cannot dash against each other. Supreme Court should not try to take charge of the Legislature and Executive unless there is an unconstitutional issue. Similarly, the Legislature and Executive won't interfere in the matters of the Judiciary.
    The comments from Supreme Court are unconstitutional and biased.

    No life without Sun

  • #721312
    The precise problem in any debate here is that some members blindly support the present Government in New Delhi. It is ridiculous to brand the farmers as "anti-national" or as "terrorists" and so on. It is not that Congress is supporting some cause without any basis. Look at the way the Adani group has grown and how the laws are being framed to favour this Gujarati group.

    The laws were pushed through any good discussion in Parliament, particularly in the Rajya Sabha. Modi and his incompetent team can never under the suffering of the masses. The cost of petrol is now Rs.90 on the market. So much for the achievement of the Government, even when the international prices have decreased!!!

    Now, let us consider facts. How can a small farmer bear the atrocious travel cost and even take his vegetables to a distance of even fifty kilometres? For example, it is only the bulk traders who buy everything in bulk and then sell it to the wholesalers who in turn sell it to the retailers. The wholesalers can also be the big retailers in specific markets. How do we deal with this reality? In a drought situation, the farmer needs some protection, whether he grows rice or vegetables or wheat or whatever.

    Now, the laws do not give this guarantee at all. So, we will have a situation where the small farmers will be at the mercy of the crooks like Adani, who have already eaten away crores and have debts to the tune of several thousands of crores. Let the Government repeal the laws and then do something better. Let Modi forget his giant sized ego and do something.

  • #721314
    Mr ABS,
    Please understand that the Mandis are not closed. The law is to let the farmers be free and chose their own method of disposing their products. They can go to the mandi agents, or they can go out side their district or state or they can wait for the buyers to take their items. They can go for contract farming. They can have contact with Adani or Ambani or any other dani or bani.

    The choice is left to the farmers. So, the law is not against the farmers, but for the farmers to have freedom to benefit with their products, largely.

    No life without Sun

  • #721323
    Here I would like to mention a quote from Leo Tolstoy. " I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means-except by getting off his back'.
    This may be understood according to the situation and the topic under discussion.

    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721329
    @SuN: What I said? Also, the same thing which you have mentioned that the Supreme Court can't quash any law passed by the Parliament.

  • #721332
    Last night farmers caught a man at Singhu Border. He has divulged some horrible information that he and his group of 10 people, including two women, has come on 19th January to create violence in peaceful agitation of farmers. They have to kill four farmer leaders and they will open fire on police on 26th January So that police may kill farmers. According to him they have been sent by government agencies and police. It's a serious allegation on Haryana government. Now police will investigate this whole conspiracy whether or not it is all fake or true. NDTV and other YouTube Channels reported this news.

  • #721334
    Now, it is the golden opportunity for the farmers to return home and have a detailed beneficial discussion for 18 months (550 days approx). The government won't offer anything further. This is the last offer to the protesting farmers. They should give up their adamant attitude and go with the governments offer, not stick on to repeal. Things can be set right within 550 days which is sufficient for negotiation and to arrive at a good decision.

    Since the issue is between the Union government and the farmer's union, Supreme Court should stay away from farmers' issue.

    If the farmers still continue to hold the protest, despite the government's excellent proposal, let them face the drama.

    No life without Sun

  • #721370
    Tactical move? Call it escapism. Passing the Bills on the floor of the Parliament without following the basic mandates, including provisions in those that will harm the farmers, not being ready to accept their demands, asking for a Judicial interference (just to save the face) and finally keeping the farmer related laws on hold for eighteen months! Is this not a joke? Let us accept that this government has gone wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

    To all those who are coming up with counter-arguments, why is the government reluctant to be stern on MSP? Simple. The corporates will decide what is to be sowed, when it is to be harvested and what price is to be offered.

    And please, all those mentions about being anti-nationals has become outdated now. Any common man now knows that, in the present regime, anyone talking against the government or our PM will be termed as an anti-national.

    Rest of the points have been discussed in detail and I don't have anything to add. But, please, let us accept facts.

    'To know what you know and what you do not know, that is true knowledge.'-Confucius

  • #721381
    Okay Members,
    Let us be in topic with little deviation. The farmers' demand is about MSP. Let us discuss this MSP. The farmers are demanding legal setting up of MSP (Minimum Support Price) for all the farm products(FP). I too support that there should be MSP for all farm products that will help all the farmers to benefit. MSP should be there from tomato to potato. All vegetables, pulses, cereals, and millets should have a set MSP. MSP can be altered or changed year after a year.

    Is our government against MSP?

    Why government is hesitating to set MSP for all the farm products? What are the advantages and disadvantages of MSP to both government, the farmers and the traders? Let us discuss it seriously with facts.

    No life without Sun

  • #721385
    It is to release the farmers from the clutches of middlemen/commission agents who buy the products at a lesser price, even after having a Minimum Support Price set on farm products, and sell them to the corporates at an exorbitant price. By the direct involvement of corporates asking the farmers for a contract farming, the farmers will get the right price as per the contract. Their income would be fixed as per the contract that can be dealt with by the farmers. We need to give a good thought to this. Presuming that the corporates would stock and hoard the items to sell them at a high rate is stupid thinking. In this present world, with the facilities available, nothing gets stored and sold. Tomatoes will become a sauce, and potatoes will become chips.

    The farmers' problem has been studied for many decades. Congress government had put it on hold and did nothing to improve the standard of poor farmers, and they remained poor forever. The present government with the absolute majority took the decision to implement and help the farmers. Nothing went wrong. All went in the right direction. It is the opposition parties that is making the farmers to protest against the bill.

    No life without Sun

  • #721457
    Farmers are too adamant and are not agreeing to the committee formed by the Supreme Court. Does it mean that they are not obeying the Supreme court? When Govt is obeying the Supreme Court why farmers union should not. Can farmers union dictate the terms. What they want to showcase with tractor rally. If yes, then one by one all unions will come with their cars, jeeps, trolleys, cycles, mopeds, bikes, and do the protest on national days.
    Thoughts exchanged is knowledge gained.

  • #721480
    Sun, MSP is one of the issues and why the Government is not able to provide a convincing reply is the point that is being questioned.

    Neeru, why say that the farmers are adamant? It is the inclination of the members of the committee that has been formed and the likely results of their study that is being not accepted. How can someone expect a fair decision from people who have been supporting the government all through?

    'To know what you know and what you do not know, that is true knowledge.'-Confucius

  • #721511
    I too want to know what is that MSP that farmers want and the government doesn't want. What is the advantage and disadvantage if we have MSP for all farm products from tomato to potato. The government must be having a justifiable reason for this. That's what I wanted to discuss in a separate thread. Members would have come up with their answer in that thread. But you locked and blocked it without giving a good thought to it. That issue is starving here.

    No life without Sun

  • #721514
    @SuN: I try to laymanise this issue:
    MSP (minimum support price) is decided on different factors (e.g. cost of cultivation, demand & supply, quality, international market price etc) for various crops (23). Government fixes MSP every year for different crops which fall within the circle of MSP. but unfortunately, farmers are not able to sell their product on MSP because of various reasons. Only Punjab and Haryana farmers are able to sell their product on MSP this is why they are rich farmers comparing to rest all of them. If it's legalised as a law then no private player will buy their crop below MSP, else they will be jailed. If MSP has been legalised then all farmers of the country will be prosper. When Private players will purchase on MSP then they will sell their product on higher rate in the market and rate of every agro-product will go up for consumers and it will directly affect common people. As you know that government has promised farmers to give the guarantee of MSP in written and indeed, government will do it but government purchases only 15% of total crops. Now what about 85% of crops? This major part of crops is purchased by businessmen/middlemen or is solid by farmers in open market but it is not sold on MSP. Farmers demand that this major part should also be sold on MSP.
    This is the problem. If the government makes a law then all private players or consumers will be angry with the government but all farmers will become rich.

    If you still have any confusion, pls let me know.

  • #721526
    You explained it well. Now government is in a dilemma between the farmers and the consumers with businessmen/middlemen eating away the share after buying the products at MSP. At the end, the consumers would be the most affected. Yes. Government has a reason that has to care the public. Price rise would make the government to pay extra DA/DR. Some solution has to be found to please both the farmers and the consumers. The discussion should be in that line, to make the farmers rich with MSP or no MSP, and the common man, especially the salaried and poor class people not becoming poorer.

    No life without Sun

  • #721528
    Mr. SuN, now you are trying to understand the problem. It is quite obvious that you have not read the three laws enacted by the Government. The concern you expressed about the common man is directly related to Essential Commodities Amendment Act. Go through the laws and you can understand the concerns of the farmers. The Essential Commodities Amendment Act directly affects the common man as there is likely to be hoarding, shortage, and price rise of foodstuffs.
    " Be Good and Do Good "

  • #721543
    No, Mr KVRR. I fully understand the Essential Commodities Amendment Act. If it affects the common man, why the common man is not protesting against the act. Why farmers only? My question is about MSP, their application and their implication.
    No life without Sun

  • #721546
    In India, the common man is resigned to his fate. They are silent sufferers. Let us be happy, at least the farmers are protesting. Did you find anything that is atrocious in the Essential Commodities Amendment Act?
    " Be Good and Do Good "

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