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  • Category: Admissions

    Active GD: Admissions for Ukraine-returned students to medical colleges -with entrance tests or not?

    As we know thousands of Indian students who had taken admission to medical colleges in Ukraine have returned home, thanks to multiple rescue operations by individuals and govt. officials. However, now arises the problem of getting a medical seat in a college in India. The Trustees/management of some medical colleges themselves came forward give a few students admission, while others are not so accomodating.

    The issue that I would like to discuss is- should these students be given a seat directly? Or should they at least appear for an entrance test, if not the national NEET whenever it is next scheduled, at least the college one?

    Update- We are taking up this topic as an active GD. You have to put forward your points on whether or not you approve of permitting the students to get admission directly into a medical college in India or should it be made mandatory for them to clear an entrance test.

    When participating, please follow the guidelines as stated in this earlier GD.

    The best participants will each get a cash reward of Rs 150/-. Other participants may be given enhanced points and cc.

    Closing date: 21st March 2022.
  • #753977
    What I understand from the medical students of India already qualified here that our medical stream and that of other countries has varied difference, portion wise, study wise and even author wise. In India each medical college has its own author preference and the faculties are also concentrating on the same pattern. But having studied in Ukraine and now returned abruptly, Indian medical college cannot accommodate for varied reasons that, we are in the fag end of academic year and in almost colleges the exams are scheduled and in that case having separate class for Ukraine students returnees may be impossible. And we have internal assignments, field visits to which even marks are assigned and being the new area the Ukraine students may not sinc with our way of studies. How the govt is going to address these issues need to be seen.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #753980
    It is rather a nice suggestion that the students taking their medical course in Ukraine should be inducted in the medical colleges of our country so that their schedules in completion of the course is not affected. The students were not aware of their fates prior to breaking out of the war. It even can't be said how long these phase of uncertainty would continue affecting their careers miserably. Though they were comfortable in Ukraine enjoying their medical studies but now they are not sure of receiving this degree in the wake of uncertain phase. I agree that the course structure of such students would vary widely than that of ours. But completing the course half way is as good as non completion of the same. A little effort by the government for these students to continue their studies in India would go a long way for their career betterment.

  • #753981
    At the most the Ukraine faculties be called upon to help and complete the course through online facilities and government can play important role here.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #753985
    Everyone,

    We have taken up this topic as an active GD. Please read the updated text in the announcement above.

    When you make a commitment, you create hope. When you keep a commitment you create trust! ~ John C. Maxwell

  • #753993
    I strongly feel that they should not be accommodated directly into the medical colleges without testing their competence.
    Many of these students who went there to study are the students who failed to get a seat in India by writing NEET. In Indian colleges, all merit students only will get admissions to MBBS. The standards of education are high in our country and one should not dilute the entry levels to accommodate these students. The students who are returned to India from Ukraine are from universities that are having a different system of teaching and curriculum. Before allowing them to get admitted to the colleges they should undergo a test in which the competency levels will be verified. Based on their performance only they should be accommodated in the colleges here. Even this is also not a viable option. I feel the best is to make separate classes for the students who are returning and coaching can be given. Once the condition in Ukraine is normal and the universities open up, the students can return to their college and continue their studies. This will be the best option.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #753994
    The National Medical Commission is trying to find a solution. This is reported in the news and the VC of one of the Universities in Maharastra confirmed this. They are trying to see that a balance decision will be taken so that students will not be at a loss and they will not be under any stress. Maharashtra University of Health Sciences (MUHS) asked the medical students who are returning from Ukraine to register on their website and so far around 100 students registered I read in papers.
    Online teaching of Medicine is not that easy and without hospitals and patients educating young people is a difficult task. So conducting online classes will be not a good idea, Asking all the students to report to one or two universities and making separate classes for them and allowing them to learn as a stop-gap arrangement may be a better option.
    Otherwise, the government should derive an orientation program which will teach the students and then once they are qualified in this programmes they can be allowed to join in the existing colleges. I think the government is in its way to do something in this issue.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #753997
    There is a severe war situation in Ukraine and these students have been brought to India in a difficult situation on humanitarian grounds as well as the fact that they are our own citizens. It is said and believed my many that whenever there is a situation beyond our control then it is the duty of all the Govt to offer help and support to the people affected by these bad times. I strongly feel that these students are to be absorbed in the regular medical stream by giving them admission in the colleges across India. We have a large number of colleges in our country and by taking a few candidates in each college this problem can be resolved. The modus operandi of taking and absorbing them in the regular stream are to be worked out by the education ministry and other involved administrative machineries so that who is to be given which college for continuing their education could be decided.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #754002
    I have a different opinion. A doctor is a life-saving person and he should be competent enough to take care of patients and should be able to treat them properly. Many of our citizens go to other countries to do their medicine course and come back. These students have to clear the screening test. Once they clear this test only they will be treated as equal to any other Indian medical graduate. Then only they will be allowed to practice in this country.
    The same strategy can be applied in this case also and all the students can be asked to write an entrance test and only the students who clear that exam should be allowed to join. But as per the existing regulations, a student joining a foreign medical college should complete his study, internship and training there only and in between there is any change his degree will not be recognised in India. So this regulation also is to be overlooked if they are allowed to complete the degree here. The government has to work out a strategy. But the quality should not be allowed to drop down.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754006
    What I feel that we should not play with the fate of these innocent students who have returned to India in the wake of the present turbulent situation and how long this will continue is not even known to us. We need to support them in their mission to complete the course here itself with the minor changes to be taken up by the government. They would be absorbed in the different medical colleges batch wise where the intake of such students would be limited to the extent that they get the infrastructural facilities to sustain their studies. Seat matrix of the students would be decided between the consultations of the Principals of the different medical colleges and the Chairperson of the admission committee. They might fix both written and oral tests to assess the competence of the students to be inducted into the medical courses in India. There might be a few left out cases who would not be fortunate enough to clear the entrance test. For them, there should be a separate provision of updating their skills with the rigorous training for a fixed duration as decided by the committee and once they pass out the course materials with success, they would be put to the regular stream of medical courses in the different colleges according to the seat availability. While devising their career growth of these students, they are not to be clubbed with the Indian students receiving their education currently in medical colleges. The students coming from Ukraine would be allowed for their medical education for which different batches would be formed and the intake of these students would be decided by the admission committee subject to clearance of the tests as fixed by the government.

  • #754015
    I am not in favour of the direct admissions for Ukraine-returned students to medical colleges. There are many reasons for this. Students who have returned from Ukraine are in huge numbers and it will not be feasible for the Indian medical colleges and institutes to accommodate such a large number of students while already there are a large number of students who are preparing for the medical entrance examination. It will also affect other students pursuing in India.

    These students have not qualified for NEET and it will be unfair to candidates who qualified through NEET. Even students with very good scores are not getting admission and if Ukraine returned students will be accommodated will be injustice with those students.

    There is no provision in the guidelines of the National Medical Council (NMC) for the transfer of students from foreign universities/ colleges to Indian institutes/colleges. Even transfer from one Indian college to another is not allowed.

  • #754016
    Further, for students who have taken admission in Ukraine due to money constraints, how will continue their study in India is a question. On the other hand, several students who qualified NEET with good scores but due to financial constraints, cannot join medical courses hence join the paramedical courses. So, it will also be unfair to these students.

    Another problem is that there will be differences in course structure in Ukraine and India. Hence, students who were studying there may feel difficulty in studying here.

  • #754017
    Ambition and getting admission to a course that is a life saving one cannot be the same. These are entirely different aspects of a student's life. Joining medical in Ukraine was a personal choice when one couldn't clear the NEET. It cannot be a duty of the Indian government to accommodate those students who are not qualified enough for admission to Indian Medical Colleges. Just because the students are not at fault for having a war in their country do not make them suitable candidates for medical studies in India. If ambition means everything, then those who failed in NEET but stayed in India and opted for any other course should also be considered for admission in the Medical Colleges.
    shampasaid

  • #754018
    When the candidates failed to secure the admissions here, they only gone there to have the medical education and that proves the quality of education is not on par with Indian standards and there has been compromise and even easy going in studies. For example my daughter has 19 text books to study for the final year MBBS and just imagine how tedious it is for the Indian students go through the final MBBS and I am sure Ukraine medical colleges may not have such a wide portion to study. If the studies were hard, then why the students from India would go there at a discounted fess also. Therefore I feel having a medical education was not as per the Indian standards and even if they qualify there, they cannot be treated as doctors in India and has to go through the procedures of IMA for sure.
    K Mohan
    'Idhuvum Kadandhu Pogum "
    Even this challenging situation would ease

  • #754020
    In the wake of the unusual development as a result of the breakdown of the war, the government should take every step that their education is not dislocated. When Ukraine is in the scattered condition, we cannot think of providing the students the same infrastructure and faculties enjoyed by them in the past. The question of opening of such medical colleges once operational in Ukraine is now not possible at this moment and not taking any initiative in this regard would simply demoralise the whole student community receiving medical courses in Ukraine.
    In the current situation, we have to ensure the merits of each student with some stringent test conducted by admission authorities to see that the student has the right potential to go ahead with the medical course. In the process of scrutiny, there might be the cases of some of students not clearing the entrance test for the medical courses, the government should think for the optional courses for them such as Diploma in Pathology, X - Ray Technicians, Degree in Biochemistry etc so that they gain sufficient inputs in such areas and can attain proficiencies in these fields. Though the arrangements look difficult at the present moment but with the serious attempts, we can work out plans to accommodate these students in the various streams for which they are found fit for the persuasion of courses.

  • #754026
    The fact of matter is that we have to accommodate these students somehow by evolving methodology for absorbing them in our medical system. We cannot leave them at the mercy of their fate. One thing that Govt can consider is that a quick and short exam can be held to ascertain their proficiency and depending on that they can be allotted medical colleges or institutions for continuing their education. It is obvious that the students who score high in this proficiency test would get chance to join the better colleges. This would make an equitable allotment of seats to these students.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #754028
    I also do not favor the decision of taking these Ukrain return students to our medical colleges. As per the data available, these are the students who were failed to get the seat in India and have a lower score. They even fail in exams conducted by AIMS when they return to India after getting an MBBS degree from the countries like Ukraine, Russia, and China. Do not compromise the status of medical education by such a decision. They will demand but it cannot be fulfilled else there will not be any reputation of NEET and related competitive exams. Hope government will tackle such kind of situation in decent manner.
    Dr. Paresh B. Gujarati.
    Mechanical Engineer.
    'I'mprovement always begins with 'I'.

  • #754029
    Let me make it clear that the Indian students having got admission in the Ukraine Medical Schools were NEET qualified candidates of India and hence there is no room of any doubts regarding their competence of MBBS course. The only consolation point for such aspirants are the low structured fees for the entire medical graduate courses ranging between Rs 3.8 lakhs and Rs 4.2 Lakhs for the entire duration of completion of the course. The aspirants including their guardians find that the fees are damn cheap in comparison to other foreign countries. Even the foods supplied to them are palatable and healthy at a very low price.
    In respect of the quality of course offered to these students in Ukraine, it cannot be considered as a substandard quality. The only catch is that they have to clear Foreign Medical Graduate Examination having its approval from UNESCO, WHO and other European Countries.
    National Medical Council is well aware of the standards being followed in relation to medical studies in Ukraine and hence should come forward for the genuine help to these needy students in this strained situation.

  • #754033
    As far as I know and I read in various newspapers students to join in MBBS in Ukraine NEET is not mandatory. They can study MBBS without NEET also. The people who complete their MBBS there in Ukraine should clear screening tests here to continue their practice or studies in India.
    They went there to study. War has come and It is our duty to see that they will not lose their lives there. That has been taken care and they were brought back here. It is the greatest help they got. Instead of losing lives, it is better to lose one year. Let their wit. The institutes there will reopen and let them go there and study can be continued.
    When the students are competent and have equal knowledge on par with the students here, let them face the test and come out successfully. Let the government offer seats to them. But without seeing their competence admitting them into colleges will lead to imbalances in the class room.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754036
    If we have to consider direct admission to these students more issues will crop up.
    Indians settled in Ukraine and doing jobs there may also ask for jobs in India as they can't go there. Is it possible for India to do that?
    Students who are not qualified in NEET may also start asking for admissions if these students are offered seats.
    I understand more than 16000 students were brought back and all these students will ask for rehabilitation. Is it possible for the government to do that?
    The Indian government has to do a lot of exercises to decide how to accommodate them.
    The government should discuss with student bodies, academicians, the National Medical Commission, health universities, etc. They have to see what are the regulations and what modifications are required. Humanitarian concerns will always be there. This kind of decision can't be taken politically or emotionally. Eventhough it is a onetime decision, that should not cause unrest in Indian and foreign medical graduates and students. As such expecting the government to accommodate them without any screening test also will not be a correct strategy.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754038
    # 754029,
    # 754033
    Yes, there is an examination Foreign Medical Graduate Examination (FMGE) that is required to have approval from UNESCO, WHO and other European Countries and to get the license and continue practice in India. But I have read in many newspapers that most of the students who returned from Ukraine cannot qualify for this exam. As per the data available with the National Board of Examination (NBE) who conduct the FMGE exam clearly states that in 2020 a total of 35,774 foreign return students appear in this exam and only 5,897 students (. I.e. only 16.48% ) could qualify for this exam. In the last 6 years out of 1.26 lakh students, only 21000 (17%) could pass this exam.
    So here the question arises on the quality of education in Ukraine.

  • #754041
    Of course, I think students returning to Ukraine should be given the opportunity to finish the rest of their studies in this country, which should be in accordance with the rules of our Medical Council.
    Medical students are slowly returning to the country from Ukraine. However, when the students return home, there is uncertainty about their future. In this situation, the Indian Medical Association wrote a letter to this effect to Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
    The IMA has appealed to the Prime Minister to enable all these students to complete the rest of their courses in medical colleges in India.
    All the Indian students who went to study medicine with an eligibility Certificate have applied for admission in medical colleges spread across the country. Due to the limited number of medical seats in India and the exorbitant fees of private colleges, students from this country are being admitted to foreign medical colleges. However, if a student wants to practice in India after passing a medical degree, then they have to qualify through the FMGE exam.
    The Chief Minister of West Bengal has announced arranging medical and engineering colleges in West Bengal for the students who have dropped out of engineering and medical studies due to the Russia-Ukraine war free of cost.
    And those who are finalists have promised to arrange paid internships in government medical colleges in West Bengal. I think this policy should be followed throughout the country on the basis of a wartime operation. Because the number of doctors in our country is much less than required, moreover the future of those students.

    Believe in the existence of God the superpower.
    Regards
    Dhruba

  • #754043
    Repeated

  • #754045
    Dr Deepali,
    # 754043 is the repetition of # 754038. Probably you might have posted the same content two times by mistake. I request you to look into it and do the needful.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754060
    I am joining late. So, directly coming to the point.

    Around 21,000 Indian students were studying medical courses in Ukraine. The war started on 15th February 2022. The Government's first priority was to bring the students back safe and sound. Operation Ganga was launched and all students except one have been brought back to India.

    Now, the question comes about the continuation of education of these hapless students.

    First thing first. These students went to Ukraine to study medical because their rank in the NEET was not sufficiently high to get admission in good medical colleges of India under Government. Further, they could not afford to pay very high management fees to take admission in good private medical colleges. They also were not willing to take admission in low-level medical colleges within the country. So, they went to Ukraine for medical study.

    Further, it must be noted that the medical degree of Ukraine is not automatically accepted in India. Every medical degree-holder from Ukraine has to clear another examination in India to get registration and start practising in India. This examination is known as Foreign Medical Graduates Examination (FMGE). This is applicable for all foreign medical degrees except medical degrees from England, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    “Khamosh rahoon toh mushkil hain, keh doon toh shikayat hoti hain" (It is difficult to remain silent; But if I speak, they complain.) --------- Saba Afghani

  • #754065
    I am not in favour of direct admission of ukrain returned student to Indian medical colleges. I think at least this field should be pure, fair and merciless. If Govt allow to direct admission to ukrain student then quality of our medical field may go down. Our citizen's life would be in danger because of lack of good doctors. Every year many student go to foreign countries for taking medical degree there rules and criteria are completely different from our country. They can't t match with Indian medical student. In our country student get admission in medical college on the basis of high level test. If ukrain returned student get admission without test then it would be injustice to those student who have been working hard for getting seats in medical colleges. So ukrain students must give test for measuring their knowledge level. Once they clear this test then only they should allow to join college.

  • #754066
    If the aspirants have chosen top medical colleges in Ukraine, they need to appear and clear the NEET test and they cannot escape this stringent process. Even the Medical Council of India recognises the medical degree offered by the top medical schools of Ukraine.
    Regarding the conduct of Foreign Medical Examination from National Board Examination is the screening process of their competence and this system cannot be bypassed even though the rate of failures are substantially high. There is no denying from my end.
    In my earlier postings also, I have emphasised to conduct the screening test to taste the potential of the aspirants and the admission procedure is to be streamlined for the aspirants passing out such screening tests and in case of their unsuccessful attempts, efforts are to made to guide and coach them so that they can be successful in the next attempts. Offering them for the allied streams such as entry in Biochemistry, Diploma in X - Ray Technician, Graduation in Biochemistry should be the next option in case of their low scores and the same has been posted in my earlier posting.
    Foreign Medical Graduate Examination is really tough and to get through it, the aspirants need to put their dedicated efforts in this direction to get through.
    Let us take it in other way, a graduate from any university in India is eligible to sit for IAS but they need to show their potential to sail through the examination and so is the case with the medical aspirants who need to comply with the existing norms.
    Our government should take that much effort to accommodate the fit students for their entries for the medical courses in India following the seat matrix of the existing medical colleges.

  • #754070
    Just now I read somewhere that the medical students who came back from China two years back because of COVID 19 have made an appeal to the government that they should also be given the same treatment that they are going to give to the students who came back from Ukraine. Like this, the demands should go on increasing. Hence as mentioned in my earlier post the government should involve all stakeholders and a stringent process should be made to finalise the modalities of admitting these students to Indian colleges.
    As mentioned in #754066, there may be some colleges in Ukraine that are standard colleges but how many students are there in those colleges is a very important question.
    Already the government has given permission for the students who completed all their classwork and who has to complete their internship to do the same in India. Anyhow they have to write the Foreign Medical Graduates Examination (FMGE)after completing all the formalities to start their practice or further studies.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754074
    Continuing from my first response, I would like to state that in all probability, the course structure of the medical degree of Ukraine is not similar to the Indian MBBS degree. What the students in India study in the first year, second year, third year and thereafter are not same as the syllabi of the Ukrainian universities. This difference has necessitated the FMGE before registration in India.

    But, the Government has to consider that these students could not study in Indian medical colleges partially due to the reservation system and the high management fee charged by private medical colleges in our country. As a welfare Government conscious about the drawbacks of the existing system in India, differences in course content, the fees already paid by the students in Ukraine, Government has to take suitable decisions. MCI, in consultation with the Government, has already taken a revolutionary decision on internship of senior medical students from Ukraine. Those who have completed the course but could not complete internship in war-torn Ukraine, can now do their mandatory internship in Government hospitals in India.

    So, the pending question is for the first-year, second-year and third-year medical students from Ukrainian medical colleges.

    “Khamosh rahoon toh mushkil hain, keh doon toh shikayat hoti hain" (It is difficult to remain silent; But if I speak, they complain.) --------- Saba Afghani

  • #754075
    #754029,

    Thank you, Sir, for clarifying that to study Medical in Ukraine, the applicants need to clear NEET. Honestly, I was not aware. A point still arises that in Ukraine, other than age criterion, students must have a qualifying NEET scorecard which is just 50%. It is not at par with the Medical students of India. Thus, there will be a compromise in the standard of the Medical graduates. Will it be proper for the general people who require treatment for various health issues? I think it's a big no. Knowledge and capability should not be compromised. Thus, the students facing the recent turmoil must sit for a very tough test to determine if they are fit to become a doctor.

    Sitting for a knowledge test or entrance test would be frustrating for the students, but at times, life throws challenges at us. Clearing them shows the capability, and that earns respect too. The students must face a challenging test according to their years of Medical course.

    shampasaid

  • #754077
    #75475,
    Thank you for your real analysis. Their scorings might be less than the one's receiving undergraduate medical education in India. However, there is no room for any apprehension at the last stage when they have to clear Foreign Graduate Examination allowing the aspirants to practice independently. The aspirants need to clear their basics in the different subjects such as Anatomy, Gynaecology, Gastroenterology etc with the relevant details. If thorough screening of their competence in such a process is done, there is no question of any ambiguity in their concepts. This test has been designed in such a manner that only the capable students having thorough concepts would sail through.
    While working out modalities by the academics, these points are sure to come up.

  • #754083
    In India, there is a reservation policy based on caste. Thus, knowledge gets ignored, and low merit wins according to caste in some cases. There are two types of losers in this regard; one who gets equivalent marks but is from the upper caste misses an opportunity to get admission. Secondly, reservation in seat allotment cut shorts seats for the upper caste students. Thus, many miss an opportunity despite having merit. Neither a government tried to change the wrong policy nor the sufferers revolted to get a proper solution. Every year many eligible candidates miss admission in Medical or any other course for a wrong rule, but none cares about it. Going to Ukraine was a personal choice, so paving away all restrictions for the students will be injustice made to the eligible candidates present in India.
    shampasaid

  • #754084
    The National Medical Commission has also issued guidelines for the registration of Foreign Medical Graduates (FMGs) with incomplete internship due to such compelling situation which is beyond their control, such as Pandemic COVID-19 and war etc, but that will be applicable if they will fulfil certain requirements and apart from this they will have to clear the Foreign Medical Graduates Examination(FMGE) conducted by the National Board of Examination(NBE).

    As I already mentioned in my post #754038 only a few per cent of students are able to qualify FMGE exam. Therefore, all the candidates whose internship is incomplete will not be able to get this opportunity.

    Most of the students chose to join medical study in foreign countries like Ukraine either because of financial constraints or failed to qualify NEET with good score. However If now they can qualify for the FMGE examination, Government makes take some decisions to support them by offering some scholarships so that they can continue their education here.

  • #754086
    Further, as I already mentioned in my post #754016 the cost of medical education is very high in India and most of the students joined courses there due to huge differences in fees. It is ok if the students have completed their course and only internship is left. But for those students who are in their 1st or 2nd or 3rd years of medical courses how will they afford this high fee if they were unable to bear it earlier.

    If students are accommodated in the medical colleges in India based on their geographical locations without any assessment, in that case, several colleges will be overburdened beyond their capacity. It will hamper the quality of education in these colleges.

    Direct admission of these students with any assessment and without qualifying examination will not be a fair decision.

  • #754088
    Direct admission for such students studying in Ukraine is not likely to happen Indian Medical Colleges. The government would do enough exercise how far the help of such disadvantaged students can be effected without giving a chance of dissatisfaction to the Indian students perusing their medical course.
    I think the academics can work out some solutions prior to same being implemented in the real ground.

  • #754089
    #754070,

    The students who returned to India from China due to the pandemic have the right to demand equal facilities like the Indian students coming from Ukraine. War was unpredictable so was the pandemic. Rules for every Indian citizen should be the same irrespective of any issues.

    If the Indian government goes out of the way to help the students, then there should be a policy that those students should not have the privilege of forsaking the medical job offered in India. It should be mandatory for every student who receives unconditional support from India that they must serve the country first for a fixed number of years. Studying in India and then going to other countries to offer one's service is a disservice to the motherland and the countrymen, especially those kids whose luck was not in their favour.

    shampasaid

  • #754093
    Admission of these Ukraine returned students will not be so easy because National Medical Council (NMC) has already stopped the transfer of students from foreign universities/ colleges to Indian institutes/colleges. This would require an amendement in National Medical Council Act, which is not that easy.

    Further, rules are same for everyone. When students returned from China due to COVID pandemic and not given any exception then why to these students?

    Here is the main issue of demand supply situation due to which students go to other countries. In India, every year around 16 lakhs students appears in the NEET exam and around 8 lakh (50% ) qualify. However there are approximately 90,000 seats in medical colleges. So, most of the students with less score move to other countries. Now around 20000 students have returned from Ukraine. How is it possible to accommodate all of these students in Indian medical colleges?

    Suppose if all these students are accomodated in the colleges, this will need extra infrastructure, teachers and other facilities. Which will create an extra burden to the existing college which are already occupied. Sanctioning of new colleges is further a time taking process and if it is done is haste then the education quality will be compromised.

    Hence, only those students who will qualify the FMGE should be given chance to continue their study in India.

  • #754096
    If we want to help these students then definitely there would be a way to do it. We cannot leave them in the lurch. It is also clear that they can afford the fee for the remaining course and accordingly they have to be accommodated in our colleges. This is an unprecedented situation and requires an out of the box solution. These students have already entered a career stream and if at this juncture they are not given a guidance and support their hard work so far done by them then all of it would go as a waste only. So with this basic idea in the mind the methodology to absorb them is to be worked out.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #754102
    Under the existing regime, the entire students ( roughly 20,000 odd students) coming from Ukraine cannot be accommodated for their MBBS course since they would be required to clear FMGE. This being the essential criteria for their admission in the medical stream, entire strength of the medical stream cannot be accommodated. Say roughly, 8,0000 odd students clear the said FMGE under the existing regulations, they would be inducted for the medical course at best. For the remaining students induction in the MBBS programme is not being foreseen. The authorities need to amend the existing regulations to absorb all at a stretch. However, doing so will dilute the quality of the medical course.
    There are many ifs and buts and these need to be sorted out in favour of students. Let us see how this issue is being straightened by the Indian Government.

  • #754108
    #754089, I have already mentioned that the government can't say no to students returned from China if they accommodate students from Ukraine.
    It is a very complicated issue and there is no way that all these students can be accommodated directly in the colleges. So under any circumstances, it is not possible.
    The best way is to wait and watch. If the conditions are getting improved in Ukraine they can go and continue their study there.
    Another point after considering some mechanism of screening them accommodating them also, there is no surety that these people will stay back in India and go to villages to work there. At that time also they may come out with some excuses. So let is not be emotional and come out with a big helping hand to them. We can't violate all rules and regulations.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754109
    Would it be fair to compare the students who returned from China due to COVID and the students from Ukraine who had no other choice but to return due to the war? We should also consider the difference in the time that would be taken by a country that is facing a war to return to normalcy and by those who have been affected by the pandemic. Claims can be made by anyone, including those who have lost their jobs, but I feel that the decisions in these kind of issues should be considerate and justifiable.
    "In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on." -Robert Frost

  • #754110
    Definitely there is a difference between the two situations. But there will be people who make claims and people to support them and in India every issue will be seen as an opportunity for political gain. In such situation the government can't come to a conclusion at once.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #754113
    The two developments originated from the different sources and both the issues cannot be amalgamated together to make the issues confusing. We should evolve a policy for better career prospects of such Indian students returned from Ukraine in the wake of breaking out of war between Ukraine and Russia. In the backdrop of the prevailing situation, we are more concerned about the careers of Indian students studying MBBS in Ukraine.
    Let us not go beyond the boundary to make the situation more complicated.

  • #754128
    It is not alone in our hands. When somebody talks about students returned from Ukraine somebody will definitely talk about the people who returned to India leaving their jobs from Ukraine. So the policymakers will take all matters into consideration and try to do their best. I am not against doing justice to the students in question but at the same, we should not do injustice to many others in the process of helping a few. There are no boundaries for people to raise their requests and demands in our Indian democracy.
    drrao
    always confident

  • #754142
    This is my third response.

    In my second response, I mentioned that the MCI, in consultation with the Government, has arranged internship for those medical students who completed their final year of medical education from Ukraine, in Indian hospitals.

    Now comes the question of the first year, second year third year and final year medical students from Ukraine. As I have pointed out earlier that the pattern of study of Indian medical colleges and Ukraine medical colleges are different which necessitates qualifying for an examination prior to registration in India.

    The students who went to Ukraine didn't rank sufficiently high in the NEET. Further, at least some of them suffered due to the reservation system in higher education in our country. Their parents have already spent a large amount for their medical study in Ukraine. The number of seats in Indian medical colleges are not sufficient to accommodate these students. All these factors will have to be taken into account. As a welfare state, India must need to take decisions considering the above aspects.. These students can't be abandoned by the Government only because their rank was not very good in NEET. I do know that a very intense brainstorming process is going on involving many stakeholders like Ministry of Education, Ministry of Health, MCI, private medical colleges, etc. However, no final decision has been taken so far.

    I, purely as an individual, would recommend that in every private medical college 5% supernumerary (additional) seats be created for these students from Ukraine and these students be accommodated in their respective years in their own states. They need to be accommodated without any entrance examination. If they can't cope with the rigours of Indian medical colleges, they will not qualify the semester-ending or year-ending examination. Then, they will automatically discontinue. And, they should be accommodated by the private medical colleges at subsidized rate. Many state governments also are of same opinion and are trying to do the same in their respective states.

    We must remember that the Ukraine-Russian war is very sudden. It is an emergency for these hapless students. Government has to take a strictly one-time measure for these students. But, this should not be taken in future as a precedence.

    Concluding my argument, I thank the ME, who has organized this very relevant issue as a GD. I convey my best wishes to the other participants. All of them have put their points of view brilliantly.

    “Khamosh rahoon toh mushkil hain, keh doon toh shikayat hoti hain" (It is difficult to remain silent; But if I speak, they complain.) --------- Saba Afghani

  • #754145
    We should not ignore the point that the students who opted for Ukraine had just scored a valid NEET score and not a high score. Many other students score just a pass mark and do not get a chance in medical colleges in India, but did not move to Ukraine. If the students who returned from Ukraine get to continue their studies in Indian Medical Colleges, then injustice will be meted to those who scored low in NEET but didn't join Medical in Ukraine. The only option is to conduct a tough entrance test for the returnees. Still, it will be not right with the other students at par with the Ukraine lot, but no entrance test will be unacceptable.
    shampasaid

  • #754146
    Every year thousand of Indian student go to different country for getting medical degree because of high fee in Indian private medical colleges. If govt allow to accomodate all foreign returned student in Indian medical colleges then what would happen to Indian student who do not get seat after scoring high marks. Govt should not be emotional over their situation. If condition become normal then may be these student want to return at own place. Till that time our student will have to wait for vacant seat. It would be completely injustice for our student. There are various point regarding accomodation of all foreign student. First, there are not much seat in Indian medical colleges. Second is about competency If those student get direct admission then our medical quality will be low.

  • #754147
    #754113
    Are you talking about china-returned and Ukraine-returned students? So please be informed both of these situations are emergencies and not created by anyone hence are of the same kind. So the rules that will be applicable to China-return students will also be applicable to Ukraine-return students. First, the government cannot allow all of these students for direct admission and without assessment, and if in any case, it allows then the quality of education will be hampered.

    #754142
    It is OK to create 5% supernumerary (additional) seats in every private medical college for these students from Ukraine. But again all these colleges will not be having enough infrastructure and teachers to support this 5% increased number.
    But they must not be accommodated without any entrance examination. As we all are aware the FMGE examination is mandatory for foreign medical graduates to continue practice in India. As Government has already issued guidelines for the candidates who have completed their course and only internships are left. They can complete their internship after fulfilling the guidelines and qualifying FMGE examination.

    Further, students, who are in their 1st, 2nd & 3rd years of course if complete their education in Ukraine then to get a license in India they attempt the FMGE exam. So in my opinion the government can allow admission of these students after passing the exam. Suppose if they will not be able to qualify for the FMGE exam then why give them a chance for admission?

    I think if government allow their admissions in Indian medical colleges without entrance examination and complete their study here, in that case, there will be no requirement for FMGE for them. It will be unfair to the rest of the students who attempted FMGE and could not qualify.

    They can be financially supported by giving scholarships for their study in India. But the medical profession is a life-saving profession hence, the decisions should not be taken based on emotions and in haste.

  • #754149
    #754147,
    I have never advocated for the direct admission for the Indian medical students returned for India, they need to adhere to the norm of FMGE and admission is to be followed up only after the clearance of the said test.
    You are right that the medical aspirants of India returned from China without the completion of the medical course in the wake of massive attack of corona in China should be given same preference for admission.
    We would not mind if the government takes appropriate step in this regard as well.
    However, in both the cases, there is no question of direct admission of the medical aspirants returned either from China or Ukraine. They need to go through the FMGE and should show their best potentials in clearing the same. While going through such a rigorous step, many aspirants would be left out for the persuasion of their medical courses which they might have covered apart of it while going through the course.
    Let us see what modalities come up for the unsuccessful aspirants so that they can have gainful employment by taking up various health diplomas if they are offered in the event of their failures to clear FMGE.

  • #754158
    Though the government is taking all possible steps to accommodate the Indian aspirants coming from Ukraine having covered the course partially and the rest course is to be completed in India if they are allotted seats according to available seat matrix for them after clearing the FMGE test. There are certain difficulties with which the government might be facing as indicated below-
    1) There exists a difference between the pattern followed by Ukraine and India in terms of medical education since former follows American Pattern and later is guided by the British Pattern. Due to this very reason, there is no uniformity of the medical course between the two countries. This may be understood with an example that a student studying in the third year of MBBS have gone through the details in a particular chapter in Anatomy but the same chapter in India is included in the fourth year of MBBS. It might be possible that in the Ukraine he has not gone through a chapter in a particular but the Indian Medical Colleges have covered such a chapter for the corresponding year.
    2) Course pattern anomaly is to be sorted out by the experts.
    3) The government should try its best to accommodate the aspirants as far as possible but not at the cost of diluting the quality of the medical courses.
    4) If possible, there should be centres in the different major cities where they can redress their doubts from the experts of Medical Colleges for their performance in the FMGE test.
    5) Aspirants are to be taken into confidence that they would be inducted in the medical stream subject to clearance of FMGE.
    6) They would be offered one more chance to clear the said test so that they ultimately make their entry in the subsequent attempt.
    7) If the aspirants would like to go in Dental Colleges, Ayurvedic Medical Colleges or in Homeopathic Medical Colleges after the clearance of test, they should be welcome.

  • #754159
    #754113,
    Nobody will see any logic in their arguments when such problems come. On paper and when we sit together we may look for logic. But when the decision-making authorities take a decision, other parties will try to bring in some or other controversy. It is more so in politics. So definitely no one can stop China students' issues without coming to the front.
    The question of FMEG will come only after the students complete their studies and the students who came back from Ukraine and joining in Indian Medical colleges with or without any screening test should go through that examination as a part of their student was in a foreign country.
    In any case, we should not dilute the standards for accommodating these people. So the best way is to conduct an entrance for the students and allow the people who cleared that keeping a condition that after completing MBBS they should attend FMCG for further courses or practice.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754160
    #75419,
    I am of the same opinion. Let the aspirants clear FMGE which is the essential parameter to induct them. After all, we need to maintain the quality of the doctors irrespective of the Institutions they have passed out.

  • #754163
    Returning from foreign as a doctor or a barrister is an old prestigious heritage in our country. Before independence in India, these were most valued. Even after independence, the value of the post-colonial chapter did not diminish at all, increased. However, not everyone can afford to move to Britain or England. Ukraine meets the demand of many Indian students in cheap, nutritious, and delicious Agmarka style. In 2019, 80,480 students from different countries of the world went to study in that country. Of these, the number of Indian students alone was around 16,000. It costs 5,000 US dollars a year to study medicine in Ukraine for Indians. Also, there are no special restrictions in Ukraine for medical admission. At the same time, Ukraine is a European country. For that reason, there are opportunities for treatment in various European countries, passing through Ukraine. And that is why foreign students, especially from Asia and Africa, are so eager to study in Ukraine. The same is true of India. At a lower cost than in the country, and limited seats in Indian Institutions. So after passing they also face a tough test to practice in India. There is an average passing rate of 15% of such tests. Otherwise, you can go to a European country. However, it is the responsibility of the country to make them full doctors, because they are citizens of the country and are becoming highly educated in the field of medical services work. In this unusual war situation, the necessary steps of the government are needed in the interest of their own country. I think they should be made full doctors without wasting time. However, it must be in accordance with the rules of the IMA.
    And It is reasonable not to apply any other obstacle in this case.

    Believe in the existence of God the superpower.
    Regards
    Dhruba

  • #754167
    As per my view, candidate should not allow to join indian medical colleges without clearing FMGE test. It should be compulsory for maintaining quality of doctor.

  • #754172
    Around 20,000 students who were pursuing undergraduate medical courses have returned from Ukraine are facing a critical situation now. Even if they wish to go back to Ukraine for continuing their studies there it will not be possible because of large scale destruction it will take a long time to rebuild the country. So, to continue their education in India is an option. But there are several challenges they will have to face to resume their studies in India. Some state governments have announced to accommodate these students in their college. And, National Medical Commission (NMC) has also announced the internship guidelines for the students who have completed their course in Ukraine and only internship was left. The further government will take appropriate action for the accommodation of the students who are in their 1st, 2nd 3rd year of studies such as academic assessment and conducting FMGE. If they will fulfil all the eligibility requirements and qualify for the FMGE exam they can be accommodated in the medical colleges of their states.

    Here I conclude my discussion with the remark that the medical profession is different from other professions because it is a life-saving profession and related to the lives of people and the well-being of society. Hence, in any case, no such decision is to be taken in just emotions which may cause a threat to the people's lives and to the socity.

  • #754174
    The Telangana government announced financial support to the students who returned back from the war-affected country. Some other states may follow the suit. But the state has not mentioned anything about seat allocation.
    The internship problem is already over as the government has given a ruling in that matter.
    Regarding the other students, the government has to make a decision and already a case is going on the court. I am of the opinion that a test should be conducted to admit the students into Indian colleges so that they can pursue their studies. But people who clear that examination only should be permitted. Admitting them directly without any test is not the correct method. Thank you all for your interesting points and I conclude.

    drrao
    always confident

  • #754175
    I strongly feel that these students have to be accommodated in the medical colleges in our country and the only thing to be resolved is the seat allocation because we cannot give them admission in a few colleges as that would affect the existing students in these colleges. I hope that Govt would soon form some methodology to admit them in the various medical colleges and resolve this unprecedented problem.
    Knowledge is power.

  • #754181
    After going through the opinions of the other members, I have only one more point to add to what I have already stated. Let me mention here that the upper age limit for the NEET-UG is scrapped. Thus, the medical aspirants can try for admission in Medical up to any age. Thus, the Ukraine returnees who are in their primary stage of the Medical course must go through an entrance test before admission in India. Only the students doing their internship can get some liberty but not the students in their early years of Medical course. I conclude by opining that an entrance test is a must for admitting Ukraine students to India's Medical Colleges. Relaxation in it will be an injustice to many Medical aspirants, and the standard of Medical degree will also be at stake.
    shampasaid


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